Building a Duplex: Contractor just told me he plans on using mini splits..Any issues?

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Mini-splits are a huge plus.....and much more expensive. Take them and run.......

Member since 2023 · 33 posts · 8 votes

3y

Mini Splits are being used quite a bit here in West Michigan. I have a 27 unit development I am developing. We at one point were looking into ephoca. Sounds like you are worries about the aesthetics. Check out this site. It was kind of expensive but worth checking into. https://ephoca.com/

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Dan H.Pro Member

Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes

3y

We have placed mini splits in some of our units. I believe you understand the pros and cons.

Biggest con is they are more obtrusive than vents associated with HVAC. If you desire best aesthetics then mini split is not optimal.

Positives: efficient, do not require ducting so can be installed in locations that HVAC would not work (vaulted ceilings, flat roof with no attic, etc.), Act similar to zoned HVAC (can cool/heat only areas you desire).

I have Fujitsu Mini splits that filters are a pain to clean but I also have AC Pro mini Split that filters are easy to clean. I do not consider the AC Pro mini split to be significantly more effort than traditional HVAC (the filters are that easy to clean).

Good luck

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member

Moderator

Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

3y

@Kevin Howard

Have him run an energy model to compare original design with new to show if it is better heating and also more efficient from an energy standpoint.

There are times when they are better and times when you should not use them.

Do your research, maybe talk to a mechanical engineer in the area as well.

7e investments53 Reviews

Website View Page

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Arn CenedellaPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes

3y

@Kevin Howard

Question:

How big is each duplex unit?

How many rooms are there?

How many mini splits are being proposed?

Each mini split typically conditions one air space only.

So if you have three bedrooms and one common living area per side, it seems to me you would need 4 mini split units for each side. A mini split in bedroom 1 will not condition bedroom 2.

While changing filters in HVAC units is important for all types of HVAC, mini splits are especially "delicate" about the need to change filters regularly. So if you use them for STR or LTR, I would make sure you change filters often on the mini splits.

Hope this helps.

Arn

[email protected]650-575-6114

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Kevin Howard

OP

Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 14 votes

3y

@Arn Cenedella Thank you for your reply. Each unit is roughly 1250 square feet (3 bedrooms/2bath). It's my understanding that they're intending to install one unit in the main living area and then a unit in each bedroom. My main concern was how they would take away from the aesthetics and also general maintenance. We really don't see them much in our area (NE Florida) unless they're in an ADU, sun room, etc. I'm really curious if it will affect resale value or not?

Not having this discussion in the design phase is also unsettling. I would have preferred to know about if before they were being installed (obviously we can't do anything about it now).

Thanks to everyone that responded...greatly appreciated!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

They make mini-splits that double as picture frames...check it out:

https://lghvac.com/gallery

1 Reply

Jerry V.

Contractor · Richardson, TX · Member since 2022 · 265 posts · 146 votes

3y

Bruce usually has some unique insights/ideas! :)

Was kind of curious though ... even in your orig posting, you said that "WE spent time designing the duplexes together..." Hmmmm... So if that's the case, YOU should know if you had enough fur downs and space for ducts and where to locate the units etc. SHOULD BE no problem, right!? (grinning) Sorry but, if "we" is used, "we" are responsible! :P

Good luck!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Kevin Howard:

I'm really curious if it will affect resale value or not?

Not having this discussion in the design phase is also unsettling. I would have preferred to know about if before they were being installed (obviously we can't do anything about it now).

Your resale value should increase because of these mini-split units. They are the preferred way to heat/cool nowadays because of the ability to just condition the air in a single room or area instead of having to heat or cool the entire house....

And you have to realize that s**t happens. Not everything can be seen until you actually get into a project. Although the architect should have caught this IMHO....

2 Reply

Kevin Howard

OP

Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 14 votes

3y

@Jerry V. When I mentioned "we" designed it I meant I approved the layout etc. I'm not a contractor, engineer, or architect. The plans that I have show a central HVAC which is why this caught me off guard.

But after reviewing everyone's insight it seems these might not be a bad option after all. We just need to get used to the appearance of them and be ready to service them more regularly.

S**t does happen...there's no doubt about that!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Kevin Howard:

He made it clear that there would be up charges for any change orders I made...what about a decrease in price for any change orders he makes?

Wait a minute here.....just saw this...

So he is correct that there will be time/money consequences for any and all changes to the original contract. But that includes changes by BOTH parties.

If the price of the Mini-splits is more than the FAU, then he has to eat that because HE caused the change. If you had requested an upgrade to mini-splits, then that would be on you.

It sounds like either he, or more likely the architect, did not realize that some framing or engineering constrictions (Beams, steel, etc) would not allow the ducting runs. So no big deal, this is in your favor as I've said before...but just be aware and do NOT let him throw in some cheap units to get around this. There are lots of $399 units on Amazon that I would never use. You should insist on a brand name with a good history like LG, Mitsubishi, or Fujitsu.....

Or you can build ducting chases either outside or inside the walls to run the ducts.....?

2 Reply

Ke Nan Wang

Developer · St. Augustine, FL · Member since 2018 · 311 posts · 384 votes

3y

I personally don't think this is entirely the contractor's fault. I would say it's probably more fault on the architect but good luck on getting the architect to pay for the change order.

Typically contractor is responsible to build the house in accordance with specifications of the plan. Of course, an experienced contractor would bring this issue to you in advance and resolve it but he overlooked the fact where a ductwork for a central air is not feasible. I'm glad I read this post because if I was the contractor, I don't think I have the experience and foresight to see this issue myself. I have built plenty houses and I normally take the attic space for duct work for granted. Now, it's just one more thing in my mind if I'm looking at a modern plan to quote. If the plan calls for central air, and he can make central air work but with reduce aesthetics, technically he can still perform in accordance with the contract. Obviously, you don't want the exposed duct work or framing/drywall surrounds. So he's proposing minisplits to resolve this problem best way possible.

The next question would be who's footing the bill for the change order. If I were you and I was still on good terms with the contractor, I would propose to split the extra cost for the minisplits and propose to get the product you want. Otherwise if you push this to the contractor, he would probably get the cheapest one on the market. So the fair way to go about this is to propose to split the extra cost but you get to choose the product you want.

1 Reply

Jerry V.

Contractor · Richardson, TX · Member since 2022 · 265 posts · 146 votes

3y

Bruce, for mini-splits, I always like Daikin. Sometimes a bit pricey, but very good units! When replacing central HVAC, I try to look for them too (not always available though. And most way over-charge for that brand!)

1 Reply

Chris Merchant

Member since 2023 · 216 posts · 133 votes

3y

I have heard nothing but good reviews of mini-splits and many contractors, guys in the HVAC world I know say they are the new wave of HVAC.

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Kumar Tummalapalli

Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 172 posts · 47 votes

3y

yes I have contemplated a lot in one of my earlier flips . Summary is - split units would not be an aesthetic issue . Yes I thought it that way . As this is duplex - I am assuming this is for rental . Its almost impossible to build a rental unit with specs that everyone likes . I do understand that , in the middle of this issue , it seems like a big deal .

I am huge practitioner of "Systems thinking" - So eventhough not the qn you asked - Important point: I understand the builder is handling the design . Was the whole plan vetted either by a professional or if not , by any knowledgeable folks with previous experience . And have you had any gut remodel or new build experience . My suggestion is to go with a finetoothed comb and ensure the plan is solid . if you have previous experience , I might not add much , but if this is is one of your first new builds - I can chat with you and exchange some ideas.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Ke Nan Wang:

I personally don't think this is entirely the contractor's fault. I would say it's probably more fault on the architect but good luck on getting the architect to pay for the change order.

Typically contractor is responsible to build the house in accordance with specifications of the plan. Of course, an experienced contractor would bring this issue to you in advance and resolve it but he overlooked the fact where a ductwork for a central air is not feasible. I'm glad I read this post because if I was the contractor, I don't think I have the experience and foresight to see this issue myself. I have built plenty houses and I normally take the attic space for duct work for granted. Now, it's just one more thing in my mind if I'm looking at a modern plan to quote. If the plan calls for central air, and he can make central air work but with reduce aesthetics, technically he can still perform in accordance with the contract. Obviously, you don't want the exposed duct work or framing/drywall surrounds. So he's proposing minisplits to resolve this problem best way possible.

The problem is usually with the return air, not the supply. Larger size and the location is more critical. Most architects aren't smart enough to get this, and the Contr probably didn't catch on until too late....or until the HVAC guy showed up. The GC should ahve been on this IMO...

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Michael McDonald

Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 4 votes

3y

I like them have been installing in all my rentals. Another thing I like is if one goes down the whole system isn't down and it's a lot less stressful for everyone especially when it's hot.

2 Reply

Jairus Calles

Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Kevin Howard:

I'm under construction on my first duplex. I chose a local builder who has been building a lot of modern homes in the area that looked appealing to me (why I chose him). We spent time designing the duplexes together and overall I was excited about the project...that is until he called me yesterday and notified me they're planning on using mini split systems in the units. This was never talked about and I certainly never agreed to it. The plans have a central HVAC on it as does the contract.

I think he messed up with the design and is trying to figure out a solution to the problem. My guess is that they messed up on the engineering and didn't account for enough space in the attic for AC ducts. He's trying to pitch these mini splits to me as being more efficient and better overall. However in my opinion they look terrible and will effect resale value. Here's a link to the duplex design for reference: https://imgur.com/a/T5rX07D

In our area you rarely see mini splits unless they're in an ADU. I'm pretty bummed at the idea of having these obtrusive wall units in every room as it will take away from the clean modern design we were looking for. Alternatively he said he could switch it to a central HVAC system but would need to have the ducts exposed or he can drywall around them...this would also look funny because it would essentially be an 18" drop down in the ceiling (going down the hallway).

Does anyone have opinions on mini splits? From what I read they're somewhat more efficient but also more expensive to maintain. My biggest concern is how they look aesthetically as this was going to be a STR (or for sale). We live in Florida and it's hot almost all year which means these units will be running 24/7/365

I'm having a meeting with the builder this week to discuss our options. I'm upset this was never discussed up until this point because I would have never agreed to either option he's providing. He made it clear that there would be up charges for any change orders I made...what about a decrease in price for any change orders he makes?

How would you handle this situation? We're still uncertain if we're going to use these as STR, LTR, or sell.

By the way, these weren't cheap to build. If I were getting a killer deal then I wouldn't care as much but we aren't. It's roughly $200 a square foot to build...

It’s hard to give alternate options with seeing the plans. my experience with mini splits is that they require a lot of maintenance. If you don’t clean them out regularly they get pretty dirty and can get moldy. I would research which models are the easiest to maintain. Sounds like this is probably your best option unless you want to redesign.

As for the change order it is called a deductive change order when the contractor provides a credit back and this should be done if the cost is indeed less. You would compare the labor, material and contractors markup from the original price versus the mini split price and then whatever the difference you either add to the total contract or deduct.

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Troy DeLong

Real Estate Agent · Lansing, MI · Member since 2020 · 171 posts · 91 votes

3y

@Kevin Howard

I would be upset with that change as well. Mini-splits have their time and place and I don't think their place is in your new build 3 bed / 2 bath duplex units in Florida. If you're contract and drawings state traditional HVAC then that is what I would expect to get.

My best suggestion would be to

1) Request a sit down with your builder and the HVAC tech / owner and discuss the situation as a whole. Why can't you do a traditional system in the attics? What is the major differences between the two? What is the performance and cost difference?

2) Discuss a cost reduction or compensation from your builder if these mini-splits end up being cheaper than a traditional system (it's 50/50 if I were to guess).

3) Don't let this hold you up from getting the build complete and rented out. Majority of tenants won't care about this. This is more of a future maintenance / resale issue.

At the end of the project, if you're still not happy with the way things turned out then you can just make that clear to the builder and hope they realize referral business from you will be a no-go.

Best of luck on getting this squared away!

- Troy

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Luka Milicevic

Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Mini-splits are a huge plus.....and much more expensive. Take them and run.......

I'm curious as to why they are more expensive.

I've looked at these before for an apt complex and the unit itself was so much less expensive than a full HVAC unit.

I recommend my sister in law look into mini splits when she was building an addition, but it was more expensive than the regular hvac system. I was shocked.

Where is the extra cost involved here? The labor?

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Andreas W.

Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 502 posts · 215 votes

3y

@Kevin Howard

Don't do mini splits. You have too many rooms to supply. If central Hvac was priced and planned for you should get it. As a home buyer I would hate to have those boxes hanging in each room.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Luka Milicevic:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Mini-splits are a huge plus.....and much more expensive. Take them and run.......

I'm curious as to why they are more expensive.

I've looked at these before for an apt complex and the unit itself was so much less expensive than a full HVAC unit.

I recommend my sister in law look into mini splits when she was building an addition, but it was more expensive than the regular hvac system. I was shocked.

Where is the extra cost involved here? The labor?

The units themselves were real expensive when they first came out. I think the cheaper competition has reduced prices somewhat, but the name brands are still pricey. Plus you need a compressor for every large unit or every 3 small units. Lots of electrical and lineset runs....

1 Reply

Account Closed

Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 25 votes

3y

@Kevin Howard my hvac guy wants to do ceiling mounted mini splits.

They will look like a typical vent from a central heat and air system.

He’s charging $500 more per unit for these.

So, to avoid the cassette bulging into the room look, these may be the ticket.

1 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Account Closed:

@Kevin Howard my hvac guy wants to do ceiling mounted mini splits.

They will look like a typical vent from a central heat and air system.

He’s charging $500 more per unit for these.

So, to avoid the cassette bulging into the room look, these may be the ticket.

Brand? Picture?

0 Reply

Account Closed

Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 25 votes

3y

@Bruce Woodruff

My house is old so the ceiling joists are 16”.

I believe that leaves only one option,

Mitsubishi. The hvac guy said four total,

2 in each unit, $18k total.

Here is a link. it shows what they look like

https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/residential/products/ceili...

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Building a Duplex: Contractor just told me he plans on using mini splits..Any issues?

Building a Duplex: Contractor just told me he plans on using mini splits..Any issues?

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