Cost of coaching/mentorship
Oakland, CA · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 41 votes
Cost of coaching/mentorship
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Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y@Shiloh Lundahl, I can hear your opinion, but don't align with it. It is the same reason, as an LP, I would not invest with someone that is running their syndication as a side business.
And from a coaching perspective, I am specifically speaking to people that market their coaching programs. Marketing takes time and resources. If I am marketing coaching, it is not a side business. It is my business. In theory, every dollar I am spending marketing my coaching is a dollar a need to make coaching. The time I spend coaching is time I am not being active in the business that I am telling you I can teach to. And, if my coach needs capital from coaching to keep their deals supported and make a living, than I, as a client and student, wouldn't want to learn from that person, because they are not as successful as they are telling me they are.
I continue to stand by my unpopular (for BiggerPockets) opinion that if you want to be successful in a real way as a real estate professional, your best bet is to find a job in the industry. Work for a syndicator or REIT or investment group. You will learn more, faster and from someone that is scaling to the level you want to be, while being paid versus paying for that education.
27 Replies
- Lender · Nationwide · Member since 2018 · 571 posts · 310 votes2y
An experienced guy I know is offering $10k for 4-5 hours private consulting.
- Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
@Justin Pumpr, I have not hired a mentor/coach, but regarding cost, I honestly don't think that is too high, if it is actually a good coach/mentor.
But, like anything, I view this as buyer beware. I would be very clear about what you are wanting out of the coaching. Do you need a crash course in Excel and underwriting? Are you looking for warm introductions to brokers and sellers? Are you completely new and don't know what you don't know? I have met people who have paid $50k for mentorship programs and are thrilled. On the flip side, when I have spoken to them and heard what they got out of it, I was thinking to myself: "I would have never paid for that". Neither of us is right or wrong, it is what that person needed versus what I would want out of.
The biggest issue I have with many mentors is my own cynicism: why are they doing this? If they are so good at making money doing what they promise to teach you, why are they taking time away from that for $7,500, or $50,000? There are a lot of guru's out there that realize making money in real estate is hard, so I can make more money with less effort teaching others about how easy it is. To me, that is not a person I want to learn from.
- 2yMason WeissBusiness MemberRealtor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 523 posts · 239 votes
I think the answer lies in the question, why do you need a 1:1 coach? What are the obstacles that you think a 1:1 coach would help you overcome? Hard to know if the coaching is worth the price until we hear the WHY behind wanting the mentorship.
- Member since 2023 · 52 posts · 43 votes2y
Quote from @Mason Weiss:
I think the answer lies in the question, why do you need a 1:1 coach? What are the obstacles that you think a 1:1 coach would help you overcome? Hard to know if the coaching is worth the price until we hear the WHY behind wanting the mentorship.
This. You should have a specific sticking point or bottleneck, and reasonable expectation the specific coach can help you resolve it, or you're basically wide open to being taken for a ride.
- Real Estate Consultant · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 114 posts · 44 votes2y
Mentorship is tricky. As a newbie I would tread lightly.
I would put the work in with research, books, YT, local RE investors, local meetings, etc. They can answer specific questions regarding your local area and help you along the way. $7,500 can go towards savings to put towards a RE deal. RE is not to be rushed or expedited.
Paid mentorship is for when you have advanced and you're looking for more specialized techniques and strategies outside of a normal transaction.
Hopefully that helps.
- Oakland, CA · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 41 votes2y
Thanks all! The main things I'm looking for are:
- helping me focus on a strategy/asset class
- gut checking my assumptions/predictions for underwriting
- helping me build my brand
At the moment I'm underwriting a lot of deals and submitting LOIs, but I don't have anyone to check my numbers for my underwriting. Nor do I really know what I'll do if an LOI is accepted. I'm in a mastermind group, so the hope is someone will help me once the LOI is accepted, but that's definitely some risky business.
I'm also looking at a LOT of different asset classes without really knowing which one to focus on. Do I look at 8-20 units? 12-40? 20-100? I'm not interested in having a billionaire dollar empire, I just want to have enough units to replace my W2 and live comfortably.
In short I'm really just looking for someone to say yes you're doing this right, or no you're doing it wrong.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
I'll help you for free. Send me a message and ask any questions you have :)
- 2yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Quote from @Justin Pumpr:
Hey all,
I've been investing on my own for a while and trying to break into the multifamily and apartment space. I'm in a mastermind that has people with good knowledge and I'm educating myself as much as I can, but I am still lacking some direction and the 1:1 coaching that I think I need.
I'd love to hear from people who have found success with mentors and who that was and what they paid for it? I've been quoted $7,500 for 6 months with one call and unlimited emails a month which seems insanely high to me.
Is that par for the course with coaches?
I am surprised your mastermind group is not able to meet your desire on mentoring. Is it a national level mastermind group (Gobundance, etc).
I will state that I hear much fewer complaints about national professional accountability groups than I hear about gurus. I recently heard of someone paying $50k/year for his accountability group. Seems expensive but the person was extremely happy with his membership in this group. Minimum qualification was $20m net worth. So those in this accountability were all very successful with great networks and connections. They each help each other to achieve further success professionally and in life.
If you do go for a paid mentor, research the mentor/program. Be sure you have a good understanding of what is included and what you expect to get from it.
Good luck
- 2yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Evan Polaski let me share with you why someone would chose to mentor or coach if they are doing well with their own real estate.
Let's say you have been investing in real estate pretty actively for 5 or 10 years. You have built up a portfolio of 30 - 50 properties. You were able to buy them well and force equity and have built a net worth of 4-6 million dollars within the time that you have been investing. Because of price points in the market where you purchased the properties are medium to high, the properties cash flow a little but not a whole lot, but each property has 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of dollars in equity in them. Also, a lot of the money that you have created over the time that you have been investing has gone back into buying and stabilizing more properties. You are asset rich but often feel cash poor even though you have $100,000 - $200,000 in the bank because every month you have mortgage payments that take maybe $60,000 from your accounts as well as other expenses associated with the properties. Most of the mortgages and other expenses are taken care of with the cash flow, however, the newly acquired properties don't have any cash flow, just expenses. So a lot of the cash flow that is being created by the other stabilized properties goes towards the carrying costs of the newly acquired properties that you are rehabbing, tenanting, and stabilizing.
This situation is likely to last for the next 5 -10 years as you continue to trade up and stabilize the properties that you buy.
Let's say that that is your situation described above and let's say that while you attend real estate meetups, workshops, or conferences, you have conversations with other investors who ask you about your portfolio. While you discuss with them your portfolio, they are impressed with what you have done and the knowledge that you have about real estate investing and they ask if they could "pick your brain" about real estate. After this happens several times and you notice that not many people do anything with the information you share with them and your spouse says that your time is valuable to the family and he or she doesn't like that you spend hours each week talking with people who say they want to invest in real estate but that don't do anything. Your spouse says that if you are going to teach people how to invest that they should pay for your time. So you create a program that teaches people the strategies of how to invest in the same way you invest. So now when people ask if they can "pick your brain" you now have a program that will walk them through how to invest in the same you have done it successfully. You find that people who actually pay you to learn do more and are more successful in investing in real estate than the people who would take a lot of your time "picking your brain." You are able to now coach people as a side business while you continue to grow your portfolio and the income from coaching helps pay the monthly bills while you continue to use the money created by real estate to build your real estate portfolio.
Do you have to coach? No. You can get by just fine without it. But it is a side business that is easily integrated in your overall real estate businesses and it gets you connected with other real estate investors or real estate investing coaches that are at your same level and it is an aspect of real estate that is enjoyable to you so you do it. You also get a lot of positive feedback from your coaching students who are really grateful to you because their net worth has gone up a lot compared to the cost of the coaching program.
So that is the type of scenario where a lot of investors start to become real estate investing coaches.
- Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
@Shiloh Lundahl, I can hear your opinion, but don't align with it. It is the same reason, as an LP, I would not invest with someone that is running their syndication as a side business.
And from a coaching perspective, I am specifically speaking to people that market their coaching programs. Marketing takes time and resources. If I am marketing coaching, it is not a side business. It is my business. In theory, every dollar I am spending marketing my coaching is a dollar a need to make coaching. The time I spend coaching is time I am not being active in the business that I am telling you I can teach to. And, if my coach needs capital from coaching to keep their deals supported and make a living, than I, as a client and student, wouldn't want to learn from that person, because they are not as successful as they are telling me they are.
I continue to stand by my unpopular (for BiggerPockets) opinion that if you want to be successful in a real way as a real estate professional, your best bet is to find a job in the industry. Work for a syndicator or REIT or investment group. You will learn more, faster and from someone that is scaling to the level you want to be, while being paid versus paying for that education.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
@Evan Polaski
I am one of those people who agree with you 100%. I spent 15 years working for an ENR top 25 general contractor, then one of the top rated developers in my region. I got paid to learn from the best, and while I may have got started late in real estate for my own personal portfolio. It did not take very long to achieve a very nice net worth, which continues to increase while many are starting to see their net worth decrease.
7e investments53 Reviews - Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Great post @Justin Pumpr!
I 100% think you should get a coach! If you are even thinking about it, it's the right thing to do...and you get what you pay for. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in coaching and it is definitely scary, but taking that leap of faith is a bet on yourself. I've found over and over you get what you pay for.
Coaches help you set the RIGHT goals when you are doing something new and then help hold you accountable. Like anything, it's not about the game it's about the practice so you have muscle memory to make the right decision in the game without thinking.
If you look at anyone at the top of their field they have some type of coach and/or mentor, no brainer in my opinion. If you are looking for someone local let me know and I can recommend some people even as mentors.
Just be aware because everyone is a "coach" these days... vet your coach like you "should" date if you are looking for your wife. Take your time, ask a lot of questions, and find someone in full alignment with your goals and personality type.
Quality Builders4.966 Reviews - Real Estate Syndicator · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 907 votes2y
I think it really depends on what "niche" you are looking to get into.
Other factors to consider are the community aspect. Does that group also provide good networking opportunities with other members? Or is the one on one coaching the main aspect?
Also how experienced is the person you get the coaching from?
- Syndicator of Large Apartment Buildings · Glen Mills, PA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
@Justin Pumpr many members on BP express their opposition to paying for coaching and believe that success can be achieved through the "free" route.
Is it feasible to attain success by opting for the free approach? Absolutely.
In my personal experience though, as well as that of many individuals I know, investing in coaching has led to remarkable achievements.
Having the right coach can make all the difference.
- Syndicator of Large Apartment Buildings · Glen Mills, PA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
@Justin Pumpr this statement you wrote caught my eye "I'm not interested in having a billionaire dollar empire, I just want to have enough units to replace my W2 and live comfortably."
A great coach will help you unpack that statement, don't you deserve to have a billionaire dollar empire?
- 2yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Evan Polaski your opinion is not unpopular on BIggerPockets. I would say the majority of people don’t think coaching is worth the cost.
Let me share with you, my personal experience with being coached and also with coaching.
In 2015 and 2016 I went through one of those expensive coaching programs. I connected with some of the instructors and I had a Real Estate coach. The total cost was about $75,000. In 2015 I had one rental property and I purchased the building that I have my therapy practice in. I had also done three flips and gained a total of $17,000 on the three flips. My net worth at the time was about $300,000.
Fast-forward six years and I built up a portfolio with a partner of up to 250 properties with the equity in the companies equaling about $8 million and personal equity, about 2 more million.
I started coaching people on the side and I have coached about 13 people over the last 3 years. All but 2 of them purchased properties under market value and increased their net worth way more than the cost of the coaching program. One of them increased their net worth by $750,000 during the year that I coached them.This was all done on the side for a few hours a week.
In my opinion, there are different levels of coaching. I was coaching beginner investors or investors who had a property or 2 already. They wanted to learn how to build their portfolio and how to build equity. They wanted their hand held through the process. I did that and they were really happy about it. It was a mutually beneficial relationship.
- Oakland, CA · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 41 votes2y
Appreciate all the input! FWIW, I absolutely think there is value with having a coach, so I'm not debating that side of it. What I was looking for was input on how much people have paid for a coach. It sounds like a lot for some people.
I spent almost $20k on a program/mastermind this year and it was the wrong program for what I wanted to achieve (scaling my portfolio with multifamily properties). I've also had a lot of terrible luck with properties I currently own, so my finances have taken a big hit. These reasons that are are holding me back from investing thousands more dollars. This is likely something I need to do though to really propel me. Like others have said, can I do this on my own? Maybe, but it'll be much harder and take much longer.
@Brian Adams to your point of if I deserve it or not....maybe I do, maybe I don't. Whether I deserve it or not isn't really important to me though. What's important is being able to buy my time back and real estate is the avenue I wanted to take to get me there. To me, the amount of work to get to a billionaire dollar empire is likely the same amount of effort, if not more than my W2, so then I'm just trading one for the other. I'm not saying I'm not driven, or motivated to be successful, but If I can achieve financial freedom with 100 units, then anything on top of that is a bonus
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 79 posts · 38 votes2y
My best decisions were made with coaches. My worst decisions were made when I did not have coaching. My personal experience and a pattern I have seen repeated in countless others for years. 100% worth getting a coach/mentor. Every good team has coaches. The best players have coaches. Business is no different.
The question, and the tough part really is, how do you know if a coach/mentor is the best fit for you? That starts with you knowing what you are after deeply. I will tell you far too many people treat this as an intellectual question and get burned as a result through zero bad intentions on anyone's part. You have to go deep and really know what you want and why. Most people I come across think they know only to find out when we spend time together, that they rarely do beyond intellectual obvious reasons (financial freedom, more money, do what I want whenever and other common easy answers).
Look for a coach to go deep with you. In my experience, the cost of those coaches is pennies compared to the value given and time/effort and pain saved and/or avoided.
- Syndicator of Large Apartment Buildings · Glen Mills, PA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
@Justin Pumpr I encourage you to think BIG!!
- Investor · Hopedale, MA · Member since 2021 · 321 posts · 212 votes2y
hi! i'm in the multifamily space as well. as a mentor i would never charge that, but i'm not surprised that some people do. one thing to consider is that some students might totally abuse the 'unlimited emails' perk which would create SO much work lol. but i can't imagine many would. the higher-profile of a coach you're wanting to work with, it's natural that their time will be worth a lot more, but something else to consider: do you really need to be learning from someone whose time is worth that much? i find it's way more actionable, digestible, motivating.. to learn from someone who's just like 1.5-2.5 years ahead of where you're at now. finding someone at THAT point, may save you quite a bit of money in mentoring AND actually get you better results.
- Developer · Boulder, CO · Member since 2018 · 530 posts · 365 votes2yEvan, Your point is well taken.
Quote from @Evan Polaski:
@Justin Pumpr, I have not hired a mentor/coach, but regarding cost, I honestly don't think that is too high, if it is actually a good coach/mentor.
But, like anything, I view this as buyer beware. I would be very clear about what you are wanting out of the coaching. Do you need a crash course in Excel and underwriting? Are you looking for warm introductions to brokers and sellers? Are you completely new and don't know what you don't know? I have met people who have paid $50k for mentorship programs and are thrilled. On the flip side, when I have spoken to them and heard what they got out of it, I was thinking to myself: "I would have never paid for that". Neither of us is right or wrong, it is what that person needed versus what I would want out of.
The biggest issue I have with many mentors is my own cynicism: why are they doing this? If they are so good at making money doing what they promise to teach you, why are they taking time away from that for $7,500, or $50,000? There are a lot of guru's out there that realize making money in real estate is hard, so I can make more money with less effort teaching others about how easy it is. To me, that is not a person I want to learn from.
After 55 years of real estate and renewable energy development, I decided to step down as the Manager of a Solar development company I founded and to serve "as council" to the two partners I took in along the way.
Never seeing retirement as anything that interests me, I am devoting the rest of whatever time I have on Planet Earth to creating tools, systems, and Programs to mentor and teach financial literacy, underwriting, and how the ground-up development process works to those that need and want these things.
Your biggest issue is real and valid. The highest and best use of any developer's time and effort is undoubtedly found in developing deals. This is why it is so difficult to find a developer with a real track record to teach and provide the pro forma workbooks and tools needed to someone who really wants to get into the game.
It's also the reason that I have elected to spend the rest of my time on teaching and providing the tools they need. - Developer · Boulder, CO · Member since 2018 · 530 posts · 365 votes2yJustin, send me your work and I'll assess it for you.
Quote from @Justin Pumpr:
Thanks all! The main things I'm looking for are:
- helping me focus on a strategy/asset class
- gut checking my assumptions/predictions for underwriting
- helping me build my brand
At the moment I'm underwriting a lot of deals and submitting LOIs, but I don't have anyone to check my numbers for my underwriting. Nor do I really know what I'll do if an LOI is accepted. I'm in a mastermind group, so the hope is someone will help me once the LOI is accepted, but that's definitely some risky business.
I'm also looking at a LOT of different asset classes without really knowing which one to focus on. Do I look at 8-20 units? 12-40? 20-100? I'm not interested in having a billionaire dollar empire, I just want to have enough units to replace my W2 and live comfortably.
In short I'm really just looking for someone to say yes you're doing this right, or no you're doing it wrong.
- Rental Property Investor · North Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes2yIf you are interested in growing your multifamily investing business, DM ME. We have a free 3-month multifamily training program.
Quote from @Justin Pumpr:
Hey all,
I've been investing on my own for a while and trying to break into the multifamily and apartment space. I'm in a mastermind that has people with good knowledge and I'm educating myself as much as I can, but I am still lacking some direction and the 1:1 coaching that I think I need.
I'd love to hear from people who have found success with mentors and who that was and what they paid for it? I've been quoted $7,500 for 6 months with one call and unlimited emails a month which seems insanely high to me.
Is that par for the course with coaches?
- Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes2y
I would say stop focusing on trying to pay a mentor and focus on finding more experienced partners you can add value to.
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