Why So Obsessed With Finding a "Good Deal"?

Why So Obsessed With Finding a "Good Deal"?

Homeowner · Melrose, FL · Member since 2013 · 90 posts · 18 votes

I've been studying everything I can get my hands on about buying and owning multifamily properties. The one thing I keep seeing is that people will only buy if it's a "good deal". Now, I of course understand that that term is subjective and greatly depends on the buyers goals and criteria but for the purpose of this post I will describe it as I have most often seen/heard a "good deal" described. A "good deal" is one in which you can purchase a property below market for some reason, or purchase and then rehab or better manage it, which will in turn allow raising of rents and therefore increase the market value of the property and equity. For lack of a better term I would say that most of these properties would be distressed. 

Hearing this over and over, I started to question the validity of the practice of only buying a "good deal". It would seem to me that buying a cash flowing property, in good condition at market value, assuming 25% down and the rest financed in your preferred way, while obviously not profitable as the deeply discounted property, would still be a good choice as long as the cash flow was adequate to your needs/criteria (maybe $100-$200 a door). The reason I say this is even though you cannot gain equity immediately through rehab and raising rents, you can still gain it slowly due to the fact that your renters are paying your mortgage for you. 

Just to be clear, I am not saying that buying distressed is bad. In fact just the opposite, it's great. I am however saying that turning away deals because they aren't distressed may be a mistake, or at least that's my line of reasoning at this time.

Also, it would seem to reason that, in the case of poor condition and mismanagement, a lot of work needs to be put in on the front end to get the property up to snuff and cash flowing to its potential. This might be a pretty tall order for investors like myself whom currently hold down a day job and invest on the side. Less headaches may just be a welcome thing for those of us struggling to manage a job and a portfolio. 

Tell me what you think, am I right? Am I wrong? Am I somewhere in between? I'd love to hear some feed back.

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Real Estate Broker · Gibsonia, PA · Member since 2013 · 828 posts · 260 votes
11y

i don't see my transactions as "good deals"

I see it as "buying right" or "buying wrong"

When you buy right... Everything falls into place. And you have holding power.  

It all stems from doing proper due diligence before buying...

My definition of buy right:

LOCATION : location location, 

Desirability, school, lot shape and size, lot location... Things you can not change and/or have no control over. Future development that may impact area. Tenant population that u are comfortable with.

PRICING: did u buy at the right price? Is you rehab numbers correct? Is your anticipated rent correct? Buy with worst case scenario in mind? Is your ARV accurate?

TIMING: not just market timing, but are you able to put time and effort into it. Do you need Holding power?

FINANCING: do you have hold power? Are you comfortable with the terms? Do you understand the terms? Did you anticipate the holding cost, cost of money? Are you using money that you need to live on?

INTEL: Did you do your due diligence? Boundary, easement, environmental test? Inspections, repairs and deferred maintenance? Title issues. Are all things that you can find prior to closing.

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    A "good deal" is one which produces a rate of return (CoC, IRR) which exceeds our opportunity costs by an amount that is satisfactory to my partner and I. It does not matter if we are purchasing an apartment complex, a strip mall, parking lot, blue chip dividend stock, or soy futures - the important bit is the return after all expenses (current and future) are paid.

  • Investor · Lafayette/Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 915 votes
    11y

    All valuation is a matter of estimation.  For that reason alone, allowing a margin for error (safety) is prudent for sound investing.

    Some reputable investors follow or espouse that logic:

    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marginofsafety.asp

    Undervalued does not equate to distressed (or cheap or low priced).  In it's simplest form, it is something available for purchase at a price below what you analyze the actual value to be.  Since I don't have a crystal ball, I like to allow a margin for error/safety.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    If you think about it, you don't buy stock at discounted prices below what the market commands, the profit is made by identifying "market values" that have greater potential. There are distressed stocks, undervalued due to various factors, but that is part of selecting those with greater potential for future performance. Same with any asset and that includes real estate! Yes, there are tactics of stock swaps, consolidations, liquidations, puts and calls that leverage a better deal, but stocks are generally sold at their "buy price" they are not negotiated down by your broker.

    Bill:

    Just to stir a little, I purchase stock monthly at a discount to market (4%) via a DRiP.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    11y

    I am a buy and hold investor in two markets and my definition of "good deal" is different in each market. I personally prefer to buy rehabbed and rented properties. Why? I use traditional residential/commercial financing to do my deals. So $20k in rehab work on one property is $100k of house I can't buy ( 80% LTV) and as we are growing very rapidly, we would much rather buy a $100k house.

    As far as a "good deal" I personally use cap rates to determine what that properties will produce.  I have a minimum cap rate I guy on and if it hits it I offer and if it is borderline, I adjust my offer so it hits it.  

  • Investor · Lynn, MA · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    People are hung up with you need to buy a distressed property in order to have a " good deal". It does not matter whether the owner is distressed or not. 

    If you can get the following it's a great deal:

    1.) $100 - $200 in cash flow a month per door after operating expenses (taxes, mortgage, capEx, property management, etc)

    2.) Property is in good shape

    3.) Property in good location

    4.) Firm exit strategy

    5.) Best use of available financing (Seller financing, cash, conventional loans, hard money, etc)

    However, it is rarer to make this happen with non-distressed property. Rarer but not impossible.

  • Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2012 · 227 posts · 114 votes
    11y

    I got a very simple philosophy- you make your money when you buy. Buy cash flow properties but make sure you alot for all expenses. people miss vacancy and under estimate maintenance all the time. Be realistic and conservative. Make sure you have a preventative maintenance fund- roofs don't last forever!

    If the 100/door accounts for the above- buy it.

  • Specialist · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 71 posts · 27 votes
    11y

    ....uh...because I run a business with investors, and my ultimate goal is to make as much profit as I can in the shortest period of time, while maintaining control of the asset....

    EVERYTHING else is just how I go about achieving my objective.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    If you think about it, you don't buy stock at discounted prices below what the market commands, the profit is made by identifying "market values" that have greater potential. There are distressed stocks, undervalued due to various factors, but that is part of selecting those with greater potential for future performance. Same with any asset and that includes real estate! Yes, there are tactics of stock swaps, consolidations, liquidations, puts and calls that leverage a better deal, but stocks are generally sold at their "buy price" they are not negotiated down by your broker.

    Bill:

    Just to stir a little, I purchase stock monthly at a discount to market (4%) via a DRiP.

    Not talking about brokerage discounts, LOL. Exchange prices include transactional fees and brokerage prices may be discounted to both ends. Yes, you may get a few points, you certainly don't buy public traded stocks at a 30% discount from the strike price.

    Point is, look for value as to potential in time.  :)

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 110 votes
    11y

    As many others have pointed out it's a cash problem.  If you can pay 100% for every deal you would have plenty of cash flow and very little issues if problems arise.

    The reason most investors are bargain hunting is because they started investing in real estate because they don't have much money yet and want to make cash.  Once you become a sophisticated investor you're typically looking to generate wealth and already have cash to help (rich keep getting richer ideal).

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