"Syndicators" with no operational experience

"Syndicators" with no operational experience

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 71 votes

There are people purporting to be experienced "syndicators" who have marketed themselves very well, but they lack operational experience. Many "syndicators" have been unable or unwilling to find their own deals and so they sign up with others to raise capital to get a piece of the promote. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with this so long as they are transparent about it. 

However I take exception to people who build significant reputations on the basis of having done X number of deals but their involvement in those deals is strictly as a capital raiser. They're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. When I listen to the podcasts I'm not even sure the interviewers know! I think this is straight-up unethical and deceptive. 

This is not a criticism of capital raising specialists who are transparent about what they do, such as @Alina Trigub, @David Thompson, GoodEgg etc. I'm bringing this up because I know the poser is eventually going to bring a deal to market and pick up investors based on false pretenses. It seriously concerns me that people will invest their money while being misled about the GP's inexperience with regard to multifamily operation. 

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Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y

Honesty,  I'd love to be more passive.  It's where we want to be after years of being hands-on. Definitely agree there needs to be more transparency about what the capital raisers have done specifically.  

I have colleagues I trust and that are extremely knowledgeable who take on vetting sponsors as pretty much their 'full-time' gig.  They have to. The market is completely saturated.

Everybody and their sibling seems to be a syndicator these days. Instead of underwriting 200 deals to find one, you have to research 200 syndicators.  Still a high bar on my nap or effort/reward index.

It's like drafting a professional athlete.   You will potentially get better returns betting on young talent, but it's risky.  The proven sponsors give up less, because they can.  A new sponsor's cost of capital might be 16%. A seasoned one, 12%. Risk/reward.   

If investors are doing it right, i.e. investing wealth built up themselves over time, they should probably go with the proven provider.  12% is plenty when you are at the capital preservation and legacy wealth stage.  Not so much if starting out and need to take on more risk.  Unfortunately this home run money is usually also a huge % of the new persons world. Careful out there.

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  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Interesting.  It is very important for syndicators to have a proven track record.  If they are placing capital into other deal structures, with different management, then due diligence should include the operators bio as well.  Just placing capital is only a form of brokerage.  I'd feel more comfortable with someone who has full operational and development experience.  

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    7y

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I think of sydicating as a very high level avtivity with a lot potentially at stake. Like open heart surgery you have to be thorough about your due diligence and deal with those that meet your criteria for success. 

    I wish there was a mandatory education level, internship, professional designation, a board of overseers.  I mean it is surely no less than being a lawyer-right?

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y

    Honesty,  I'd love to be more passive.  It's where we want to be after years of being hands-on. Definitely agree there needs to be more transparency about what the capital raisers have done specifically.  

    I have colleagues I trust and that are extremely knowledgeable who take on vetting sponsors as pretty much their 'full-time' gig.  They have to. The market is completely saturated.

    Everybody and their sibling seems to be a syndicator these days. Instead of underwriting 200 deals to find one, you have to research 200 syndicators.  Still a high bar on my nap or effort/reward index.

    It's like drafting a professional athlete.   You will potentially get better returns betting on young talent, but it's risky.  The proven sponsors give up less, because they can.  A new sponsor's cost of capital might be 16%. A seasoned one, 12%. Risk/reward.   

    If investors are doing it right, i.e. investing wealth built up themselves over time, they should probably go with the proven provider.  12% is plenty when you are at the capital preservation and legacy wealth stage.  Not so much if starting out and need to take on more risk.  Unfortunately this home run money is usually also a huge % of the new persons world. Careful out there.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:

    Interesting.  It is very important for syndicators to have a proven track record.  If they are placing capital into other deal structures, with different management, then due diligence should include the operators bio as well.  Just placing capital is only a form of brokerage.  I'd feel more comfortable with someone who has full operational and development experience.  

     Raising capital for a syndicator and your not a principal requires a series 7 license and the ability to sell away..  to be legal at least that's my understanding.. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Bjorn Ahlblad:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I think of sydicating as a very high level avtivity with a lot potentially at stake. Like open heart surgery you have to be thorough about your due diligence and deal with those that meet your criteria for success. 

    I wish there was a mandatory education level, internship, professional designation, a board of overseers.  I mean it is surely no less than being a lawyer-right?

     just go to a 30k how to work shop and now your experienced.. ???

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 71 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Bjorn Ahlblad:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I think of sydicating as a very high level avtivity with a lot potentially at stake. Like open heart surgery you have to be thorough about your due diligence and deal with those that meet your criteria for success. 

    I wish there was a mandatory education level, internship, professional designation, a board of overseers.  I mean it is surely no less than being a lawyer-right?

    I don't know that more regulation is the answer, after all these are private offerings and we are entrepreneurs for a reason. In the case I described he isn't doing anything illegal as far as I can tell. 

    Ultimately the burden of due diligence rests with each of us as investors but I really dislike shady people. 

    My recommendation to anyone evaluating a private offering (real estate or otherwise) is to find out the partners' operational experience directly from other operators in the industry. Unfortunately podcasts, hand-shaking and online research alone cannot be trusted. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Honesty,  I'd love to be more passive.  It's where we want to be after years of being hands-on. Definitely agree there needs to be more transparency about what the capital raisers have done specifically.  

    I have colleagues I trust and that are extremely knowledgeable who take on vetting sponsors as pretty much their 'full-time' gig.  They have to. The market is completely saturated.

    Everybody and their sibling seems to be a syndicator these days. Instead of underwriting 200 deals to find one, you have to research 200 syndicators.  Still a high bar on my nap or effort/reward index.

    It's like drafting a professional athlete.   You will potentially get better returns betting on young talent, but it's risky.  The proven sponsors give up less, because they can.  A new sponsor's cost of capital might be 16%. A seasoned one, 12%. Risk/reward.   

    If investors are doing it right, i.e. investing wealth built up themselves over time, they should probably go with the proven provider.  12% is plenty when you are at the capital preservation and legacy wealth stage.  Not so much if starting out and need to take on more risk.  Unfortunately this home run money is usually also a huge % of the new persons world. Careful out there.

     reality is many of the deals that folks buy  I mean how do you get a distressed MF in todays market.. I bet dollars to donuts a lot of this comes from unwinding partnerships with not ready for prime time syndicators..   its all about the sponsor..  

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Honesty,  I'd love to be more passive.  It's where we want to be after years of being hands-on. Definitely agree there needs to be more transparency about what the capital raisers have done specifically.  

    I have colleagues I trust and that are extremely knowledgeable who take on vetting sponsors as pretty much their 'full-time' gig.  They have to. The market is completely saturated.

    Everybody and their sibling seems to be a syndicator these days. Instead of underwriting 200 deals to find one, you have to research 200 syndicators.  Still a high bar on my nap or effort/reward index.

    It's like drafting a professional athlete.   You will potentially get better returns betting on young talent, but it's risky.  The proven sponsors give up less, because they can.  A new sponsor's cost of capital might be 16%. A seasoned one, 12%. Risk/reward.   

    If investors are doing it right, i.e. investing wealth built up themselves over time, they should probably go with the proven provider.  12% is plenty when you are at the capital preservation and legacy wealth stage.  Not so much if starting out and need to take on more risk.  Unfortunately this home run money is usually also a huge % of the new persons world. Careful out there.

     reality is many of the deals that folks buy  I mean how do you get a distressed MF in todays market.. I bet dollars to donuts a lot of this comes from unwinding partnerships with not ready for prime time syndicators..   its all about the sponsor..  

    Agreed.  The large apt community market (150+ units) has many more buyers than sellers because syndication is so prevalent.  More money than deals.  If I owned one, I'd be a seller.  Let em fight over it.

    Because of this, in this market, my target asset would not be what everyone else is chasing.  Any sponsor I research will be specializing in less competitive asset classes.  Gotta keep my cards a little close for now... LOL  Like I know anything anyway.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y

    Hi Chihero,

    Don't forget the SEC requires the PPM to have a "Prior Performance in Raising Funds Table" and an "Operating Results of Prior Programs" table that all investors must be given.

    Also the SEC assumes Accredited Investors can handle losses if they occur and Sophisticated Investors can asses the risk for themselves.

    These opportunities are not open to the "General Public" for those reasons. The general public is protected.

    Also without a more experienced Co-Sponsor on a deal, a 1st timer will have a hard time qualifying for a Fannie Mae Loan which is used a lot on Syndications.

    There is always risk in this business, nothing is guaranteed. Even long term operators get bitten sometimes.

    Ultimately it's up to the SEC allowed investor (or his financial adviser) to evaluate the risk of the offering based on the SEC required offering documents before wiring his money. 

    Actually right now (post bubble) it's more regulated due to the borrowing restrictions.

    The SEC protects the public enough, while at the same time letting deal sharks, and their backers, try to make profits.

    Anyway, that's how I see it.

    Good Luck!

    Scott...

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    Well said Chihiro.  It has additional challenges.  Some sponsors offer preferred terms on investments at higher minimums (i.e. a share of the GP) and those preferred terms are not available if the investment comes through the capital raiser (i.e. the capital raiser gets the share of the GP instead of the investor).

    In some cases, it adds another party to vet.

    On the flip side of the coin, the capital raiser is providing a service and access to deal flow for many investors.  As you mentioned, there are some excellent capital raisers on BP...and the concern is not the model, just the candor.

    @Jay Hinrichs I believe they get around series 7 by technically being in the general partnership.

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    nervously paging @Ben Leybovich

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Well said Chihiro.  It has additional challenges.  Some sponsors offer preferred terms on investments at higher minimums (i.e. a share of the GP) and those preferred terms are not available if the investment comes through the capital raiser (i.e. the capital raiser gets the share of the GP instead of the investor).

    In some cases, it adds another party to vet.

    On the flip side of the coin, the capital raiser is providing a service and access to deal flow for many investors.  As you mentioned, there are some excellent capital raisers on BP...and the concern is not the model, just the candor.

    Yes that's what I mentioned you need to be in management and part of the GP team.. or an employee . in our state we could have two employees raise money and we just had to register them with the Division of corporate securities in Oregon... 

    but just running around making referrals to syndicators with nothing more than a commission agreement does not work unless your licensed properly.. there are many boutique series 7 firms out there that specialize in this stuff.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Jents,

    I am not sure if I am qualified to add thoughts to this. I've been buying multifamily since 2006. In the past 5 months I bought 2 communities, $20M acquisition price and $8M equity. Here are a few thoughts:

    @Jay Hinrichs - I am surprised at your statement that distressed RE cannot be found. It absolutely can, it just looks different from the way it did before. In this cycle distressed is not distressed. In this cycle, I buy from folks who bought in 2013 with the business plan of Cap Rate compression. They had the balls to step in when everyone was running away. They did not re-position, remodel, or do any value-add. They simply stabilized and held, knowing that the market will hand them the exit. Also, they understood that in order for said exit to work, they'd need to leave plenty of meat on the bone for me - they did. And now, the cap rate has indeed compressed and they are making out like bandits. 

    For my part, however, while paying a compressed cap rate for the in-place income, I am taking over original, un-renovated, and non-optimized assets with plenty of upside where I can underwrite close to doubling the NOI in 3 years. So, if I am paying 4.5 Cap, at the end of Y1 it looks like 5.5 Cap, and by the end of Y3 it will look like 8.25 Cap on my basis - in a market that trades at 5 Cap on stabilized valuations.

    So, while it looks differently, there are definitely deals. Just have to be able to see things from another focal point. 

    As to evaluating sponsors, I will stay above the fray. 

  • Lewisville, TX · Member since 2015 · 341 posts · 264 votes
    7y

    This is a really bad practice & unfortunate & unless sophisticated & accredited investors like myself start demanding change it won’t happen.

    Ultimately before a subscription agreement is signed & funds sent in its up to the investor to do better due diligence & work to increase both their experience & deal flow!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

    Jents,

    I am not sure if I am qualified to add thoughts to this. I've been buying multifamily since 2006. In the past 5 months I bought 2 communities, $20M acquisition price and $8M equity. Here are a few thoughts:

    @Jay Hinrichs - I am surprised at your statement that distressed RE cannot be found. It absolutely can, it just looks different from the way it did before. In this cycle distressed is not distressed. In this cycle, I buy from folks who bought in 2013 with the business plan of Cap Rate compression. They had the balls to step in when everyone was running away. They did not re-position, remodel, or do any value-add. They simply stabilized and held, knowing that the market will hand them the exit. Also, they understood that in order for said exit to work, they'd need to leave plenty of meat on the bone for me - they did. And now, the cap rate has indeed compressed and they are making out like bandits. 

    For my part, however, while paying a compressed cap rate for the in-place income, I am taking over original, un-renovated, and non-optimized assets with plenty of upside where I can underwrite close to doubling the NOI in 3 years. So, if I am paying 4.5 Cap, at the end of Y1 it looks like 5.5 Cap, and by the end of Y3 it will look like 8.25 Cap on my basis - in a market that trades at 5 Cap on stabilized valuations.

    So, while it looks differently, there are definitely deals. Just have to be able to see things from another focal point. 

    As to evaluating sponsors, I will stay above the fray. 

    they can be found my point is some of them are going to be from failed syndicators or partnerships that did not work out.. they don't all always work..  is my point.. so choose wisely right ? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    7y

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

  • San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    I am new to multifamily and I'm glad to see so many knowledgeable people on this thread chiming in. I learned very quickly that not all "syndicators" are created equal. I trusted this group and thought I had a future with them. I knew exactly what they were looking for and what markets they loved. Since I am a new and have no experience with raising capital or closing deals, I offered to help find them a deal. In return we were supposed to "work something out" if I could find them a great deal. After months of work I found it, brought it to them, and got nothing. After being ignored for a few months, I found out they closed on this deal because they use Meet-up events and webinars to present their new deals and raise money. I guess they forgot I was still on the mailing list! I do take responsibility for just taking their promise and going with it. But I couldn't help feeling like because I'm new, they knew I would be a little naive. I definitely wish I could go back and post in a forum like this to get some answers. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

     Hah well, that will have to remain your problem in the great socialist State of Oregon. We in Phoenix, on the other hand, are greatly benefiting from people running from CA, another great socialist state :)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

     Hah well, that will have to remain your problem in the great socialist State of Oregon. We in Phoenix, on the other hand, are greatly benefiting from people running from CA, another great socialist state :)

    ya not sure if the puzzle factory running this state really understands free market economics  but my Lobbyist I use just sent out an economic report that is very favorable for the state... so it appears that rentals are not a big driver if they can submarine them and the economy is still booming and strong I know its worked in our favor for new construction :) 

  • Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 730 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

     Don’t feel too bad about rent control killing value add. Where else is there rent control? SF, Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose, Los Angeles, Santa Monica, New York City. i.e some of the most prosperous and expensive cities in the world.

    There are a good amount of us (on BP and off) that are still doing value add deals in these cities. The RC keeps rents low in some buildings thus being able to unlock a lot of value. 

    The ~10% max increase in Oregon is quite generous. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

     Don’t feel too bad about rent control killing value add. Where else is there rent control? SF, Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose, Los Angeles, Santa Monica, New York City. i.e some of the most prosperous and expensive cities in the world.

    There are a good amount of us (on BP and off) that are still doing value add deals in these cities. The RC keeps rents low in some buildings thus being able to unlock a lot of value. 

    The ~10% max increase in Oregon is quite generous. 

    I don't think we know where it will all flush out.. but in the short term it will hurt sales as folks will be afraid of the unknown.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 71 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Caton:

    I am new to multifamily and I'm glad to see so many knowledgeable people on this thread chiming in. I learned very quickly that not all "syndicators" are created equal. I trusted this group and thought I had a future with them. I knew exactly what they were looking for and what markets they loved. Since I am a new and have no experience with raising capital or closing deals, I offered to help find them a deal. In return we were supposed to "work something out" if I could find them a great deal. After months of work I found it, brought it to them, and got nothing. After being ignored for a few months, I found out they closed on this deal because they use Meet-up events and webinars to present their new deals and raise money. I guess they forgot I was still on the mailing list! I do take responsibility for just taking their promise and going with it. But I couldn't help feeling like because I'm new, they knew I would be a little naive. I definitely wish I could go back and post in a forum like this to get some answers. 

     Andrew that is unfortunate. But now you know that a deal isn't yours until you have it under contract. 

  • Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    @Chihiro Kurokawa I agree with your statement that they're promoting themselves on podcasts, in person and online as syndicators and implying that they're taking deals through the cycle when in fact they're raising capital and then building little or no asset management experience. As an investor in syndications myself, I'm not sure why I should or would settle to invest my money on someone who has not managed or owned through a cycle. There are very seasoned teams out there, you just need to know where to look.

    @Jay Hinrichs there is value add in every market but unlike yesteryear when value add meant buying at half of rebuild cost and pushing rents a modest $100 yielded 15-20% cash on cash on the hold, today its forcing rents up to top of the market (and historically adjusted highs) and hoping and preying that those rents stay there and continue to grow (not to mention interest rates). So its more of a bet that current conditions will continue and IF they don't the huge capex gets no return and the hold gets pushed to 7-10 years and into another capex cycle. Quite a different value add indeed from the 2013 guy that bought on 30% of the 2019 dollar.

     Well the great socialistic republic of Oregon has just about killed value add with state wide rent control 

     Don’t feel too bad about rent control killing value add. Where else is there rent control? SF, Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose, Los Angeles, Santa Monica, New York City. i.e some of the most prosperous and expensive cities in the world.

    There are a good amount of us (on BP and off) that are still doing value add deals in these cities. The RC keeps rents low in some buildings thus being able to unlock a lot of value. 

    The ~10% max increase in Oregon is quite generous. 

     Actually it isn’t generous. 10% is nothing when you have 50% below market rent units. 

    Not sure how it works in the other states but NYC only has RC & RS on certain units.

    FM unit rents are able to be raised any percentage you want. RS can also be destabilized after it hits the threshold and through other avenues. 

    What I read was that Oregon did was make all rentals follow the rent increase guideline which is ludicrous. This will cause people to figure out loopholes and cause rents to rise even further. I bet smart developers will tear down buildings and build condos or FM Rentals like they do in NYC to hit their return requirements. 

  • Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Starting your own podcast is not enought experience to be a syndicator?  JK

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