Thinking about Investing in Syndication

Thinking about Investing in Syndication

Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes

I've recently become interested in the idea of investing in syndication deals due to its "active-passive" nature (and also diversification of my portfolio of course).  With any investment, I plan to conduct due diligence of the Sponsor and ask as many questions as I can (and plenty of people here have laid out helpful questions to "grill" a Sponsor with).  

And just for transparency here and to help with context (as I see many posts asking what an investor's "why" is), my goal is to one day have financial freedom (hopefully sooner rather than later) to enjoy more time with my family and friends and to create financial wealth to support my family for generations to come.  To achieve this goal, I want to become involved with real estate (have yet to make a first investment besides our primary residence) and the great community.  At this point, I will continue with my corporate career, so with that in mind, I don't want to add another "job" in managing real estate rentals though I would like to dip my toes into that realm some day.   This has led me to the idea of investing in syndication deals, which with the proper due diligence will allow my money to work for me while I continue with my current career.  

Now, to the main point of this post.  The idea of investing in syndication obviously appeals to me.  The trouble I am having and hoping people here with experience investing in syndication deals can help me with is knowing which private equity firms/companies to start off with in researching and doing my DD.  And I'd like to begin with multi-family/apartment deals.  Any feedback would be helpful! 

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Ian IppolitoBusiness Member
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

@William Kim,

For vetting a syndication, different investors do it differently because every investor comes from a different financial situation and has different goals and risk tolerance. For me, I'm a very conservative investor and may look through a hundred deals a month, and at the end of the year only invest in 4-5. So things that are a red flag for me may be fine for someone more aggressive. Here's how I do my due diligence:

1) Portfolio matching: (takes 30 seconds per deal)

a) Have an educated opinion on where you think we are in the real estate cycles (financial and physical market cycles)

b) Then only then pick the strategies, capital stack, and specialized asset subclasses that make sense for that opinion. For example, I think we are late cycle, so I lean toward the safest part of capital stack which is debt (or debt free equity). I won't go with the riskiest opportunistic strategies, and will stick to core and core plus mostly with some value-added. I won't be investing in the riskiest/most supportable asset subclasses such as hotels, and tilt my portfolio the ones that have historically been more stable such as multifamily and single-family housing. I also don't want refinancing risk, so any deals with only 3 to 5 year debt are out for me. For someone that's not as conservative, or a different view on the next recession, they might have a different opinion than me on all of this

2) Sponsor quality check: (takes about 45 minutes per deal)

I believe that a great sponsor can take an average looking deal and make it great, and that in mediocre sponsor can take a fantastic looking deal and make it bad (especially if there is a severe recession). So I start with the sponsor first. Again, others might disagree.

a) Track Record: Get the entire track record for the strategy. As easy as this sounds, it's not simple and usually like pulling teeth. Many times they will claim it's wonderful and then try to hide their worst deals by only showing completed deals. Make sure to get unexited deals. Or if they are doing value-added multifamily, they will show you their hotel experience. That doesn't cut it for me. I want a specialist that's an expert, and not a jack of all trades and master of none. Also, in a mainstream asset class like value-added multifamily, I see no reason to take a risk on a sponsor that doesn't have full real estate cycle experience and didn't lose money. Again, other might feel differently here.

b) Skin in the game: as a conservative investor, I understand that the dirty secret of industries that the waterfall compensation is in the line with me and incentivizes sponsors to take more risk. So I require skin in the game (average is 5% to 15%) to offset this. Contrary to popular belief, this is not set because I believe it will give me a higher return. I believe it tends to give me a slightly lower return, because the sponsor is going to be more careful, and if there is a severe downturn will prevent me from taking catastrophic losses. Someone that is more aggressive, may want lesser even though skin in the game. Also, if the sponsor is new, I am fine with less skin in the game as long as it is significant to their net worth. On the other hand if they are a sponsor that is experienced in stopping a skin in the game, that's a huge red flag for me.

c) how open to scrutiny are they? I always discuss investments with others in an investor club because other people might think of things that I might miss. And even though virtually every sponsor agreement allows me to share investment information with others who might be advising me on it (especially when club members are bound by an NDA), I still ask the sponsor if I can share it, because it's a test. Most are fine with that, but a few will have problems with it and claim there are legal issues, etc.. That's a red flag for me.

d) death by Google: I Google everything I can about the sponsor. I check the SEC, FINRA, ratings websites for inside information on the principals in the company. I also look for lawsuits and see what happened in them. Many times it's an easy red flag. Sometimes it's ambiguous, but even then, why should I bother with the company that has numerous unresolved lawsuits, versus another company that is virtually the same but has none. Again, others might feel differently here.

3) property level due diligence: (takes seconds to weeks per deal): here is where I drill in with the low-level details.

a) pro forma popping: I examine all the assumptions, and see if they are overoptimistic or not. I look at every single item in the pro forma and imagine that it is complete BS, and see if I can challenge it. If there's a hole, it may be a red flag.

b) sensitivity analysis: I examine all the assumptions, and make sure I can live with the worst case scenarios.

c) "Stall and see": if they are getting money over multiple years, and there is no penalty for investing later, I would usually wait so I get some real performance data, versus having to look at theoretical pro forma information.

d) Recession stress test: I will not invest in anything, until I subject it to recession level stress and see if I can live with the result. And I take the worst recession I can find in the recent past. Sometimes there is only great recession data, and that recession was pretty mild on some asset classes, versus previous recessions. So I will usually 1.5x or 2.0x the stress. If the deal collapses and I would lose everything, I'm out. Others might be fine with taking risk, but least by doing this a person can get an idea of what might go wrong.

e) Legal document analysis: it will usually take a few days to go through the legal document properly, as almost inevitably there are tons of gotchas that either have to be explained, or mitigated with a side letter.

That is the very short summary of what I do. If you want more information, p.m. me and I can give you a lot more details.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 741 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @William Kim:
    @Joel Florek thanks for the input Joel! Yeah, it’ll take some digging , DD and a lot of conversations and reading to ultimately get comfortable in investing w sponsors and deals. What type of investing do you typically partake in?

     I currently own and manage 31 units between 4 properties. The focus has been small multifamily with value add. 

    This year is all about scaling up to working with investors to tackle larger assets. Signing as a KP on a 107 unit deal and hopefully working with other syndicators on some deals in the future. Actively shopping for my own deal to sponsor but missed out on a few best and finals as of recently. 

  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @William Kim there has been some great info here, but I wanted to add that you should absolutely get to know the sponsor. The deal and market are both important, but the #1 thing should be finding a capable, high-character group that will protect and grow your money. BP is a great place to start. This thread alone has numerous syndicators responding. 

    Also, check podcasts, multifamily meetups, conferences and other investors.

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Eric Schultz Thanks, Eric.  I agree that a visit in person is needed for investing that amount of money.  Re: accredited vs non-accredited, do you know if there are different benefits given the accredited investor as opposed the non-accredited if both are allowed to participate in the same deal? 

    @Nate Marshall Thanks for the suggestions, Nate.  I'll add them name to my list.  Have you worked with any of these people?  If so, what has your experience been? 

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Charley C.  Thanks, Charley.  I can't say I'm currently interested in new construction at this point (still haven't made my first investment), but I'll keep you in mind.

    @Theo Hicks Thanks, Theo.  I'll certainly check them out in the forums on BP.  Have you worked with any of these syndicators?  What has your experience been?  

    @Joel Florek Thanks for sharing, Joel.  And congrats on the great work so far.  Did you start off with multis?  Or SFRs?  Turnkeys? 

    @John Casmon  Thanks, John.  I don't think it can be emphasized enough to get to know the syndicator/sponsor.  Since the investor will be relying completely on the sponsor's experience and project management skills, it's certainly worth the time and effort to know who you are investing in (in addition to what you're investing in).  

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @William Kim biggerpockets is a great place to start, as well as podcasts. I think the best bet is to compile a list of companies that you think have potential and then begin networking with them. The more you have conversations with sponsors, the more you will understand what you are looking for and who is a right match for you. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    7y

    @William Huston I've worked with Joe Fairless for nearly 4 years and have nothing but positive things to say about him and his syndication business.

  • Rental Property Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 704 votes
    7y

    @William Kim

    Because of the learning that happens in real time, I think it's very unrealistic to project that income streams will quickly replace your job. Granted, it's all about opportunity cost.

    If you're doing something uninteresting to you and making a small amount of money doing it, the switch is not hard to justify. If you're fortunate to have a good job, upward mobility, good benefits, and an interest in your career, the opportunity cost for the switch is VERY high. I presume I would have to actively manage commercial deals for a full decade to get back to where I am today, in my career. Tack on the fact that I like what I do and have plenty of room for growth, the choice there is obvious for me.

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Trevor Ewen:

    @William Kim

    Because of the learning that happens in real time, I think it's very unrealistic to project that income streams will quickly replace your job. Granted, it's all about opportunity cost.

    If you're doing something uninteresting to you and making a small amount of money doing it, the switch is not hard to justify. If you're fortunate to have a good job, upward mobility, good benefits, and an interest in your career, the opportunity cost for the switch is VERY high. I presume I would have to actively manage commercial deals for a full decade to get back to where I am today, in my career. Tack on the fact that I like what I do and have plenty of room for growth, the choice there is obvious for me.

    Very well said. Some people do have careers they really enjoy. I was one. I stayed in the tech sector while investing for decades.

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 265 posts · 305 votes
    7y
    William Kim You might be talking about a private placement offering under SEC Reg D 506b where both investors can participate. There would not be any major difference in investor benefits while participating in the same deal. One of the main differences between 506b and 506c is how the advertising of the deal offering is regulated. Some may argue that the deals available under 506c offerings (accredited investors only) can be more lucrative (higher IRR).
  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    7y

    While we're on the topic of 506(b) vs (c), I will say that even though most of our investors are accredited, we still stick to the (b) exemption. Yes, (c) would allow us to advertise, but investors would also be required to provide proof that they're accredited (through bank statements, personal financial statements, etc). I just don't want to make it more difficult for my investors to put money in our deals. 

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Eric Schultz Thanks, Eric.  I think read about the advertising portion where if the sponsor is advertising under 506b and includes non-accredited investors, they must have some sort of relationship for a period of time before the deal was made known to them.  

    @Sam Grooms Thanks for sharing that, Sam.  As you stick with 506b, do you open the doors to unaccredited investors as well (on some or all deals)?  Or do you mostly stick with accredited (and just want to provide convenience factor in not requiring proof)?  Generally speaking, what is the minimum investment amount on your deals? 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @William Kim:

    @Eric Schultz Thanks, Eric.  I think read about the advertising portion where if the sponsor is advertising under 506b and includes non-accredited investors, they must have some sort of relationship for a period of time before the deal was made known to them.  

    @Sam Grooms Thanks for sharing that, Sam.  As you stick with 506b, do you open the doors to unaccredited investors as well (on some or all deals)?  Or do you mostly stick with accredited (and just want to provide convenience factor in not requiring proof)?  Generally speaking, what is the minimum investment amount on your deals? 

    We do allow sophisticated investors in every deal. The exemption allows up to 35, we generally cap it at 30. Our minimum investment is usually $50,000, but can vary with the deal. One thing you'll want to make sure you're checking as a sophisticated investor, is that you're not investing more than 10% of your net worth in the deal. 

  • Multifamily Syndicator · Conifer, CO · Member since 2018 · 80 posts · 84 votes
    7y

    @William Kim 

    I like your idea of going with with syndication while you continue to earn.

    If I were you I'd get to know, trust, and align myself with a reputable team of operators that utilize 506b exemptions in their syndications and qualify each other.  Work on building a substantive relationship, both ways, so you can begin to analyze their deal flow and ultimately invest in their opportunities.

    Hope this was helpful; don't hesitate to reach out.

    Dino

  • Rental Property Investor · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 741 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @William Kim:

    @Charley C.  Thanks, Charley.  I can't say I'm currently interested in new construction at this point (still haven't made my first investment), but I'll keep you in mind.

    @Theo Hicks Thanks, Theo.  I'll certainly check them out in the forums on BP.  Have you worked with any of these syndicators?  What has your experience been?  

    @Joel Florek Thanks for sharing, Joel.  And congrats on the great work so far.  Did you start off with multis?  Or SFRs?  Turnkeys? 

    @John Casmon  Thanks, John.  I don't think it can be emphasized enough to get to know the syndicator/sponsor.  Since the investor will be relying completely on the sponsor's experience and project management skills, it's certainly worth the time and effort to know who you are investing in (in addition to what you're investing in).  

     Progression thus far. 4, 16, 3, 8, signing as a KP on a 107 unit, and hopefully under contract on a 15 unit for myself this week. We will see.

  • Specialist · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 626 posts · 700 votes
    7y

    @William Kim there's not much to add to this thread as you have already gotten a wealth of guidance from the great contributors here on BP.  I did not see anyone mention Mobile Home Parks though, so if that is an area you would like to explore feel free to connect and I can share some perspective about that asset class.  

  • Roni E.Pro Member
    Specialist · Earth 2.0 · Member since 2019 · 598 posts · 271 votes
    7y

    I would do a lot of homework, underwrite deals yourself, speak to a PPM attorney so you can understand the workings of PPM. Check out Joe Fairless videos and podcast. Do calls with General Partner/Syndicator and ask your questions. I would find out what do you want to invest like retail, apartments or whatever else. 

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 245 votes
    7y

    Hi William, I have invested in 14 syndications with several firms. I've seen the good, bad and the ugly. Happy to share my experience or help answer any questions. DM anytime

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