Thinking about Investing in Syndication

Thinking about Investing in Syndication

Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes

I've recently become interested in the idea of investing in syndication deals due to its "active-passive" nature (and also diversification of my portfolio of course).  With any investment, I plan to conduct due diligence of the Sponsor and ask as many questions as I can (and plenty of people here have laid out helpful questions to "grill" a Sponsor with).  

And just for transparency here and to help with context (as I see many posts asking what an investor's "why" is), my goal is to one day have financial freedom (hopefully sooner rather than later) to enjoy more time with my family and friends and to create financial wealth to support my family for generations to come.  To achieve this goal, I want to become involved with real estate (have yet to make a first investment besides our primary residence) and the great community.  At this point, I will continue with my corporate career, so with that in mind, I don't want to add another "job" in managing real estate rentals though I would like to dip my toes into that realm some day.   This has led me to the idea of investing in syndication deals, which with the proper due diligence will allow my money to work for me while I continue with my current career.  

Now, to the main point of this post.  The idea of investing in syndication obviously appeals to me.  The trouble I am having and hoping people here with experience investing in syndication deals can help me with is knowing which private equity firms/companies to start off with in researching and doing my DD.  And I'd like to begin with multi-family/apartment deals.  Any feedback would be helpful! 

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Ian IppolitoBusiness Member
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

@William Kim,

For vetting a syndication, different investors do it differently because every investor comes from a different financial situation and has different goals and risk tolerance. For me, I'm a very conservative investor and may look through a hundred deals a month, and at the end of the year only invest in 4-5. So things that are a red flag for me may be fine for someone more aggressive. Here's how I do my due diligence:

1) Portfolio matching: (takes 30 seconds per deal)

a) Have an educated opinion on where you think we are in the real estate cycles (financial and physical market cycles)

b) Then only then pick the strategies, capital stack, and specialized asset subclasses that make sense for that opinion. For example, I think we are late cycle, so I lean toward the safest part of capital stack which is debt (or debt free equity). I won't go with the riskiest opportunistic strategies, and will stick to core and core plus mostly with some value-added. I won't be investing in the riskiest/most supportable asset subclasses such as hotels, and tilt my portfolio the ones that have historically been more stable such as multifamily and single-family housing. I also don't want refinancing risk, so any deals with only 3 to 5 year debt are out for me. For someone that's not as conservative, or a different view on the next recession, they might have a different opinion than me on all of this

2) Sponsor quality check: (takes about 45 minutes per deal)

I believe that a great sponsor can take an average looking deal and make it great, and that in mediocre sponsor can take a fantastic looking deal and make it bad (especially if there is a severe recession). So I start with the sponsor first. Again, others might disagree.

a) Track Record: Get the entire track record for the strategy. As easy as this sounds, it's not simple and usually like pulling teeth. Many times they will claim it's wonderful and then try to hide their worst deals by only showing completed deals. Make sure to get unexited deals. Or if they are doing value-added multifamily, they will show you their hotel experience. That doesn't cut it for me. I want a specialist that's an expert, and not a jack of all trades and master of none. Also, in a mainstream asset class like value-added multifamily, I see no reason to take a risk on a sponsor that doesn't have full real estate cycle experience and didn't lose money. Again, other might feel differently here.

b) Skin in the game: as a conservative investor, I understand that the dirty secret of industries that the waterfall compensation is in the line with me and incentivizes sponsors to take more risk. So I require skin in the game (average is 5% to 15%) to offset this. Contrary to popular belief, this is not set because I believe it will give me a higher return. I believe it tends to give me a slightly lower return, because the sponsor is going to be more careful, and if there is a severe downturn will prevent me from taking catastrophic losses. Someone that is more aggressive, may want lesser even though skin in the game. Also, if the sponsor is new, I am fine with less skin in the game as long as it is significant to their net worth. On the other hand if they are a sponsor that is experienced in stopping a skin in the game, that's a huge red flag for me.

c) how open to scrutiny are they? I always discuss investments with others in an investor club because other people might think of things that I might miss. And even though virtually every sponsor agreement allows me to share investment information with others who might be advising me on it (especially when club members are bound by an NDA), I still ask the sponsor if I can share it, because it's a test. Most are fine with that, but a few will have problems with it and claim there are legal issues, etc.. That's a red flag for me.

d) death by Google: I Google everything I can about the sponsor. I check the SEC, FINRA, ratings websites for inside information on the principals in the company. I also look for lawsuits and see what happened in them. Many times it's an easy red flag. Sometimes it's ambiguous, but even then, why should I bother with the company that has numerous unresolved lawsuits, versus another company that is virtually the same but has none. Again, others might feel differently here.

3) property level due diligence: (takes seconds to weeks per deal): here is where I drill in with the low-level details.

a) pro forma popping: I examine all the assumptions, and see if they are overoptimistic or not. I look at every single item in the pro forma and imagine that it is complete BS, and see if I can challenge it. If there's a hole, it may be a red flag.

b) sensitivity analysis: I examine all the assumptions, and make sure I can live with the worst case scenarios.

c) "Stall and see": if they are getting money over multiple years, and there is no penalty for investing later, I would usually wait so I get some real performance data, versus having to look at theoretical pro forma information.

d) Recession stress test: I will not invest in anything, until I subject it to recession level stress and see if I can live with the result. And I take the worst recession I can find in the recent past. Sometimes there is only great recession data, and that recession was pretty mild on some asset classes, versus previous recessions. So I will usually 1.5x or 2.0x the stress. If the deal collapses and I would lose everything, I'm out. Others might be fine with taking risk, but least by doing this a person can get an idea of what might go wrong.

e) Legal document analysis: it will usually take a few days to go through the legal document properly, as almost inevitably there are tons of gotchas that either have to be explained, or mitigated with a side letter.

That is the very short summary of what I do. If you want more information, p.m. me and I can give you a lot more details.

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  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    7y

    I'm a big believer in finding the city/cities you want to invest in, and then find the good sponsors in that city. 

    When I started investing in syndications, I pulled up the quarterly transaction reports from the big brokers (they list all transactions, not just their's), and looked at who the buyers of B and C class multifamily were. I then started researching the top 4-5 buyers, 3 of them were syndicators, two of which were focused on value-add (which I knew I wanted). I spoke with both syndicators and ended up liking one a lot more than the other. 

    You could also just speak with the large brokers directly. They know who the top syndicators are in the market. 

  • Ivan BarrattBusiness Member
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 764 posts · 953 votes
    7y

    @William Kim the answer is simple. Get educated on what a good deal / sponsor looks like. Best way to do that in my opinion is to evaluate 100 deals (just like you would do for a rental property) before investing in one. Do this simple (but not easy) task and you'll develop a "finger tip feel" for what a good sponsor/deal looks like.

    Sources for deals: bigger pockets, crowdfunding sites, google/research.

  • Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes
    7y

    @Mike Dymski is a good resource on this stuff.  Very smart individual.  

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y

    I like Sam's focus on location first.

  • Investor · Stratford, CT · Member since 2015 · 258 posts · 230 votes
    7y

    Read "Sean Cook's" Investing in Real Estate Private Equity.

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @William Kim

    You've gotten a great feedback already here. Everyone's approach is different, so let me share mine. 

    When I started out as an equity investor, overtime I developed this approach of looking at:

    1) deal sponsor

    2) market they invest in

    3) deal itself

    1) For me the the relationships is one of the most critical things. Since in real estate investing we deal with people a lot, it is very important that yours and the deal sponsors interests, plans and ideas about investing via syndications align for the most part. 

    This article should give you some guidance on questions for a syndicator: https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/10850/7...

    2) I'd look at the market where a particular deal sponsor is buying and determine what stage of the market cycle is this market is. Is there still room for growth or are we a little bit too late to the cycle.

    3) Evaluating sponsor's deal(s) is the last but very critical component!

    If at the end of the day, all "pieces of the puzzle" align, then I'd consider moving forward with the investment. 

    Keep in mind, in order to do these steps, you still need to get educated on the subject! 

    Last but not least, you can find a lot of the deal sponsors here on BP. Search through the old posts. 

    Feel free to PM if you have more questions.

    Best! 

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 315 votes
    7y

    there are many threads on this topic already

    here is a real recent one:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/432/topics/698955-tips-on-learning-about-syndication

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Sam Grooms Thanks for your advice!  As I am just starting out here, I'll certainly need to conduct a lot of research into which city/cities I'll want to consider diving into.  How did you pull those big broker reports?  

    @Ivan Barratt I certainly agree with you here that experience (in reading through deals) is invaluable.  How do you feel about crowdfunding sites vs. PE firms? 

    @Aaron Taylor thanks for the name!  Hoping he can chime in as well to share a bit of his experience. 

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Ed Matson thanks for the book suggestion!  will look into it.

    @Alina Trigub Thanks for sharing your own personal approach to syndicated deals.  I agree that relationships/your network is one of the most vital pieces of the puzzle in real estate.  I'm hoping that while I collect as much knowledge as I can, I can create connections/relationships to foster and grow.  The market cycle piece does have me a bit worried as I've certainly seen the "good" returns people are claiming to receive from investing in syndication, but that was during the upward trend in the market.  Now that we're topping off, wondering what the risks look like and how that changes how the deals are structured.  

    @Steve K. thanks for the link to the existing (recent) thread.  I'll look into that and take the advice I can from there! 

  • Ian IppolitoBusiness Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @William Kim,

    For vetting a syndication, different investors do it differently because every investor comes from a different financial situation and has different goals and risk tolerance. For me, I'm a very conservative investor and may look through a hundred deals a month, and at the end of the year only invest in 4-5. So things that are a red flag for me may be fine for someone more aggressive. Here's how I do my due diligence:

    1) Portfolio matching: (takes 30 seconds per deal)

    a) Have an educated opinion on where you think we are in the real estate cycles (financial and physical market cycles)

    b) Then only then pick the strategies, capital stack, and specialized asset subclasses that make sense for that opinion. For example, I think we are late cycle, so I lean toward the safest part of capital stack which is debt (or debt free equity). I won't go with the riskiest opportunistic strategies, and will stick to core and core plus mostly with some value-added. I won't be investing in the riskiest/most supportable asset subclasses such as hotels, and tilt my portfolio the ones that have historically been more stable such as multifamily and single-family housing. I also don't want refinancing risk, so any deals with only 3 to 5 year debt are out for me. For someone that's not as conservative, or a different view on the next recession, they might have a different opinion than me on all of this

    2) Sponsor quality check: (takes about 45 minutes per deal)

    I believe that a great sponsor can take an average looking deal and make it great, and that in mediocre sponsor can take a fantastic looking deal and make it bad (especially if there is a severe recession). So I start with the sponsor first. Again, others might disagree.

    a) Track Record: Get the entire track record for the strategy. As easy as this sounds, it's not simple and usually like pulling teeth. Many times they will claim it's wonderful and then try to hide their worst deals by only showing completed deals. Make sure to get unexited deals. Or if they are doing value-added multifamily, they will show you their hotel experience. That doesn't cut it for me. I want a specialist that's an expert, and not a jack of all trades and master of none. Also, in a mainstream asset class like value-added multifamily, I see no reason to take a risk on a sponsor that doesn't have full real estate cycle experience and didn't lose money. Again, other might feel differently here.

    b) Skin in the game: as a conservative investor, I understand that the dirty secret of industries that the waterfall compensation is in the line with me and incentivizes sponsors to take more risk. So I require skin in the game (average is 5% to 15%) to offset this. Contrary to popular belief, this is not set because I believe it will give me a higher return. I believe it tends to give me a slightly lower return, because the sponsor is going to be more careful, and if there is a severe downturn will prevent me from taking catastrophic losses. Someone that is more aggressive, may want lesser even though skin in the game. Also, if the sponsor is new, I am fine with less skin in the game as long as it is significant to their net worth. On the other hand if they are a sponsor that is experienced in stopping a skin in the game, that's a huge red flag for me.

    c) how open to scrutiny are they? I always discuss investments with others in an investor club because other people might think of things that I might miss. And even though virtually every sponsor agreement allows me to share investment information with others who might be advising me on it (especially when club members are bound by an NDA), I still ask the sponsor if I can share it, because it's a test. Most are fine with that, but a few will have problems with it and claim there are legal issues, etc.. That's a red flag for me.

    d) death by Google: I Google everything I can about the sponsor. I check the SEC, FINRA, ratings websites for inside information on the principals in the company. I also look for lawsuits and see what happened in them. Many times it's an easy red flag. Sometimes it's ambiguous, but even then, why should I bother with the company that has numerous unresolved lawsuits, versus another company that is virtually the same but has none. Again, others might feel differently here.

    3) property level due diligence: (takes seconds to weeks per deal): here is where I drill in with the low-level details.

    a) pro forma popping: I examine all the assumptions, and see if they are overoptimistic or not. I look at every single item in the pro forma and imagine that it is complete BS, and see if I can challenge it. If there's a hole, it may be a red flag.

    b) sensitivity analysis: I examine all the assumptions, and make sure I can live with the worst case scenarios.

    c) "Stall and see": if they are getting money over multiple years, and there is no penalty for investing later, I would usually wait so I get some real performance data, versus having to look at theoretical pro forma information.

    d) Recession stress test: I will not invest in anything, until I subject it to recession level stress and see if I can live with the result. And I take the worst recession I can find in the recent past. Sometimes there is only great recession data, and that recession was pretty mild on some asset classes, versus previous recessions. So I will usually 1.5x or 2.0x the stress. If the deal collapses and I would lose everything, I'm out. Others might be fine with taking risk, but least by doing this a person can get an idea of what might go wrong.

    e) Legal document analysis: it will usually take a few days to go through the legal document properly, as almost inevitably there are tons of gotchas that either have to be explained, or mitigated with a side letter.

    That is the very short summary of what I do. If you want more information, p.m. me and I can give you a lot more details.

    The Real Estate Crowdfunding Review
    View Page
  • Rental Property Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2014 · 65 posts · 33 votes
    7y

    CrowdDD and 506 investor group are excellent due diligence resources.  Over 1000 accredited investors are members and many share their experiences with sponsors nationwide.

  • Rental Property Investor · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 741 votes
    7y

    @William Kim There are a lot of options these days which makes it tough. In talking with folks in your position I have found that there are a few approaches people take. 

    1. Find the syndicator they like with a good track record and sign checks for deals trusting they are in a good market and getting a good deal. Obviously you can do as much or as little due diligence as you would like on each deal.

    2. Do some research yourself to find a market or markets you are particularly interested in and find the folks who are buying properties in that area. One way to find them is to make calls to brokers who are selling multifamily properties and let them know you are a passive investor looking to meet with multifamily syndicators in the area and are hoping to get connected due to your interest in a particular market.

  • Rental Property Investor · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 741 votes
    7y

    Best of luck in your search! If your interested in the MidWest would love to get to know you better!

  • Rental Property Investor · RVA · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    So much awesome advice in here. Wow

    @Ian Ippolito Re: checking the SEC and the rest of the internet for lawsuit/legal trouble info - this is a very good idea, but when you come up with something bad, ask the sponsor about it. There are a lot of common names, and sometimes the Bill Smith being sued by the SEC is not the same Bill Smith you're thinking about investing with. Otherwise an excellent writeup.

    Another thing I would add is build relationships with other passive investors and ask them about their experiences with various sponsors. They'll be excited to tell you - I've got some experiences I'll share privately but would never post online.

  • Rental Property Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 704 votes
    7y

    @William Kim

    I definitely think you have the right idea. As someone else who has kept my 'corporate' job and plans to continue, I have found it to be the best vehicle. Maintaining the 9-5 and being successful at it makes it almost impossible to self manage or organize deals with decent scale. I have yet to meet an investor that has made that work without significant involvement from family members (at which point, it's almost like a syndication). 

  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Ian Ippolito thanks Ian! This is a lot of valuable information and tips. One of the main reasons I love BP. I certainly align with you in that I’m looking to do maybe 1-2 deals per year initially but get to no more than a handful per year. I’d consider myself very conservative as well and think I would need to review sponsors and deals to find where my conservative values lie with respect to syndication deals (since I’m completely brand new). Are you a member of CrowDD or 506 Investors?
  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Michael Powell thanks Michael! I’ve seen references to these before. Are you a member of 506? What’s your experience with these resources?
  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Sarah Doogle thanks Sarah! i certainly appreciate that point. What type of real estate do you invest in? I assume you’d like to achieve FI someday as well? What are your goals?
  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Joel Florek thanks for the input Joel! Yeah, it’ll take some digging , DD and a lot of conversations and reading to ultimately get comfortable in investing w sponsors and deals. What type of investing do you typically partake in?
  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Taylor L. Thanks Taylor! I certainly agree that building relationships is key. Just need to find myself a great mentor as I think that would be the right next step in embarking on this REI venture! How do you build your relationships?
  • Burlington, MA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 16 votes
    7y
    @Trevor Ewen thanks Trevor. Yeah, I’m not at that point where it makes sense to leave and I’m uncertain how involved I’ll want to be with the day to day matters of real estate rentals. I’ve heard that it’s a lot harder than one imagines. Maybe if our portfolio gets to the point where the income streams replace our expenses, then we can consider that? Lots to think about here...
  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 265 posts · 305 votes
    7y
    William Kim There has been great advice so far. Once you have selected the sponsor / syndicator and market(s), there are a few more things to add to the due diligence step. For example, before I invested with a particular sponsor I made a trip to meet their investor relations person and CEO / founder in-person. I also toured a few of their multi-family properties and attended a presentation to understand their investing model, track record, current holdings and performance, recent acquisitions, etc. When you are investing $50k + per deal with an operator it’s a good idea to meet in-person, and see if you can like and trust them. Depending on whether you are accredited or not will determine which sponsors you can invest with. A. If you are an accredited investor, you can participate in a SEC Reg D 506c offering as a limited partner. Some offerings have a minimum of $25K investment. B. If you are not accredited, you can participate as 1 of 35 non-accredited investors or “other purchasers” in SEC Reg D 506b offering as a limited partner. This option allows you to invest along side accredited investors. Some offerings have a minimum $25k investment.
  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 734 votes
    7y

    I would recommend getting in touch with Adam Adams of Blue Spruce Holdings. He does the Raising Money Summit and Finding Deals Summit. He also has had over 8,000 attendees at his meetups over the past 3 years. Meetup brought him to their offices to help other organizers learn from him. 

    The other people Id look at are Rod Khleif. He has a bootcamp in Denver in 2 weeks. David Toupin of Obsidian Capital, Steven Pesavento and others like them.

  • North of Houston · Member since 2018 · 349 posts · 181 votes
    7y

    I don't know if I would be called sponsor in the conventional sense.  When people want to be involved with my new construction in multifamily, then the minimum they need is about $500,000 (most deals require more). The leveraged cash on cash return is unbelievable when it all comes together. I have seen cash on cash more than double in a year. 

    We are not trying to hold on to what we sell for very long.  We realize our profit once the complex is all leased up and stabilized. I seen too many down turns in my life so if I am leveraged, its getting sold while its hot.  

    I like to have new construction partners but I never envisioned having an organization that is designed to be a perpetual manager of a REIT. I am sure I could do it but its not what I am her for.

    Basically, the investor's cash is used for 2 things,

    1) closing the construction loan (lot of time one time closes) 

    2) reserves for making mortgage payments before we get them rented. After we sheet rock, that mortgage payment is real beast and there lies what I think is the biggest risk (time between sheet rock and 80% occ) 

    I can tell you more. Its too much information to unpack on a post. plus I can't promote myself unless I go pro so its better to PM me if interested learning more.  New construction can be rewarding but its not for everyone.    

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    7y

    Hi William,

    I would start with the apartment syndicators who are posting a lot of BP, as well as to look at the multiple forum posts with lists of syndicators. Go to their website and set up a call.

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