How illegal is this on a scale of 1 to Bernie madoff

How illegal is this on a scale of 1 to Bernie madoff

Contractor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 54 posts · 58 votes

So funny story I thought I’d share. I recently put in an offer on a short sale house and when talking to the listing agent he said “man I love these short sales!” So I said oh really why? And he said because he rents them out while they’re in the short sale process. So I asked him who gets the money him or the bank? And he said he keeps it all! And that he had 9 other short sale properties that he was renting out! So this agent is renting out a property he doesn’t even own and meanwhile the bank (the actual owner) is paying taxes, insurance, maintenance etc. this guy is collecting rent free and clear without having to pay a mortgage or anything! Times 9 properties. I guess what shocked me most is how he tells complete strangers over the phone about his little side gig. My offer was denied by the bank but it led me to wonder if he even submitted the offer...because if the house sells then he doesn’t collect his rent $ anymore! So BiggerPockets, on a scale of 1-Bernie Madoff, how illegal is this? And if it’s not then I’m getting my real estate license ASAP.

34Reply
196 views

Most Popular Reply

Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

This is Madoff, Clayton Morris, and the Fyre festival wrapped into one...

Irish Jones Realty4.948 Reviews
View Page
See this reply in the discussion

67 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Agent · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 298 posts · 268 votes
    6y

    Thats a Madoff for sure 

  • Tyler GibsonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper Without a doubt this is Madoff mode. WOW the cajones this guy has. It is a clear ethical violation that would cost him his license and possible jail time. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Berlin, MA · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 95 votes
    6y

    Was he talking to you from his Cayman bank? Damn, must not be a tenant friendly State. Can't imagine doing that in Mass and trying to get those tenants out when the house sells...

  • Contractor · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2019 · 54 posts · 58 votes
    6y

    @Michael Totman this is in NY. I don’t think he’s thought that far ahead yet or maybe he just makes sure they never sell since he’s the agent.

  • Investor · North Richland Hills, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    A few years ago I met an agent here in DFW, TX who was doing exactly the same thing and he somehow justified it as being legal. I had my doubts though...

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    This is Madoff, Clayton Morris, and the Fyre festival wrapped into one...

    Irish Jones Realty4.948 Reviews
    View Page
  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper

    By any chance, is this "friend" of yours named "Cobin Rasper"? Because you should probably tell this "other guy" to stop doing this, and do not tell anybody about this fraudulent scheme. 

  • Developer · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    New strategy short sale arbitrage 

    Wow!

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    This guy is a genius , get his contact info and see if you can help him with his little arrangement. Heck if they are just sitting there then somebody oughta use them . Houses are made for living . That may help a family get by for several months

  • Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper

    Contact the board of realtors in your state. They will know for sure

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper
    One error in your accusation....by definition, in a short sale the bank does Not own the property, the borrower still does and yes, they have the right to rent it out or let their agent rent it out. Of course he must be doing it with the owner’s permission, but nothing illegal in that. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Short-term gain, long-term pain.  This will not end well.

  • Investor · Tx, GA · Member since 2019 · 313 posts · 337 votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper

    How does he rent out homes for an unpredictable amount of time? Unfurnished as well I imagine. How on earth would he even draw up legal paperwork for that if he might have to evict the tenant if they don't move out when property sold?  He's drunk and high on himself and blabbering about it to everyone, reminds me of that NBA exec who stole $14 million .. 

  • Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper

    I don’t have time to spend with people that aren’t on the up and up. Your reputation in real estate is very important.

  • Raleigh, NC · Member since 2019 · 26 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    That’s the funniest most illegal thing I’ve ever heard. Tell him he should keep his W-2 job, his real estate career will be short lived.

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    As note holders we have done this on many occasions when we were in the process of taking back a property deed-in-lieu of. The advantage was someone was paying the utilities, keeping it safe from freezing, theft/damage & preventing feral ghetto rats from breaking in. We only had one ex-buyer file a trespassing complaint but the cops (we know them all) were just glad it was not left abandoned so it was moot.

    One investor called me to ask if a recently vacated home was going to be available as his son was interested. It was <C-class but in an industrial area & in high demand for those working in the facilities nearby. He & his son had already got in & 'looked through' the home & the kid was keen to stay there until we could transfer/sell it to him. After six months of him paying us 'RENT', keeping it 'safe' & doing a lot of rehab, the ex-owners finally signed off on the deed-in-lieu-of, (they tried to extort some cash from us to sign). So we had another sale (4th time for this property) & the kid offered us 3x what we originally paid for it 6-7 years before.

    8 years later & he's still paying on our d-g note & 3 years ago his dad bought the home next door from us (that we got as a foreclosure) & we HOLD that note as well. Most people wouldn't look twice at these <C-class homes BUT for us they are some of the many stealth cash cows we own & nurture.

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Robin Casper

    There is nothing illegal about what he is doing. Actually way more common than u think.

  • Ocala, FL · Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    On a scale of 1 to Bernie Madoff, it's a "Madoff funding a Kenneth Lay" venture.

  • Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Matthew Irish-Jones I just started getting emails from Clayton Morris. Is that not good? Yes I’m new

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Joshua Malone  WE KNOW you're kidding. That guy damaged my market really bad. Most of the shady investments were bought in Indianapolis. 

    @Matthew Irish-Jones  Perfect comment. 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mark Fries:

    @Robin Casper

    There is nothing illegal about what he is doing. Actually way more common than u think.

    You are saying it is not illegal to rent a property you don't own, without the owners permission and keep all the money. Isn't this considered trespassing and fraud? 

    How would you report something like that on your taxes? 

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock

    I did not read anything in the original post saying this was done without the owner's knowledge.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mark Fries:

    @Joe Splitrock

    I did not read anything in the original post saying this was done without the owner's knowledge.

     He said the realtor keeps all the money. Do you think the owner is going to agree to that? The seller is either paying the mortgage or going into foreclosure. You don't think in either case, they would want some or all the money? 

    I have seen foreclosure situations where the owner was renting the property and keeping all the money, while not paying the mortgage. That is considered criminal fraud. 

    And of course there is the tax aspect. Hopefully for their good, the realtor is claiming all the income on his taxes. You can do jail time for tax evasion and people do all the time.

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock

    I just disagree with most of that because I think it's based on emotion. The owners of these properties could have an agreement with this realtor. We dont know..

    And it is not criminal fraud to rent out a home that you own and keep the rent payments while you are in foreclosure. It might not be a good practice or ethical but it is definitely not criminal.

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Malone:

    @Matthew Irish-Jones I just started getting emails from Clayton Morris. Is that not good? Yes I’m new

    Joshua, I would not even click on those emails for fear of a virus let alone invest money with Clayton Morris.  I am sure there are crooks in every industry but, you really need to be careful in RE investing due to the large sums of money at risk.  Especially when you are investing out of town, state, country.

    Reagan said Trust but verify... I would be skeptical, verify, don't trust, verify, give a little trust, verify, then trust but verify, and keep on verifying...

    Irish Jones Realty4.948 Reviews
    View Page
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.