HUGE Joint Venture Question

HUGE Joint Venture Question

Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes

To start off. I bought 2.6 acres about 2 years ago. It is raw land, undeveloped. there use to be a house on the property but since then its been burned down and hauled off. Since I do not have the capital to build anything or do anything with it... my only logical option was to sell it.

There has been a lot of calls on this piece because it is close to town - in the city limits. It is zoned commercial with new access to water and sewer with really helped with the value of the property. There have been a few low ball offers but now there is a guy that is very interested. He wants to build 30+ town homes on the property to keep as rentals, and he offered full asking price!

Here is the catch! He wants me to sign a contract that puts us (me and his company) into a joint venture. He plans to use the equity in the property in order to finalize and get the loan that he wants. When I came back and asked.. why don't i do an owner finance or a wrap on the property so that we don't have to be married up in a joint venture. Well he came back with "Well if we can't do a joint venture i can't get the loan and the deal can't happen". to add - he will be getting a 2.5 million dollar loan, and showed me his plans. the contract he sent me states that I will not be liable for any loans under the joint venture. 

Please help I'm excited and nervous at the same time. I don't like this feeling

Also, I've had this property listed for more than 6 months and I'd really like to sell it for full price! However, I'm a little scared to go into a joint venture agreement. I just want to keep it safe.

any feedback helps!

Here are my numbers on the deal
my purchase price 2 years ago: 45k
Asking price today: 130k

obvioulsy i really want to make this happen but I don't want too lose it in the process.

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
10y

I'd bet the guy doesn't have the experience to pull off a project like this cleanly. He wants to go from building a couple houses a decade ago to building a subdivision now... There's a big difference, and a lot has changed in a decade... 

If you decide to do this, I would recommend spending a thousand or two on an attorney and get a detailedcontract written up.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • MHP investor from Johns Creek, GA · Member since 2014 · 123 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    Does this guy have experience?  You need to find out what experience he has in development.

  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    10y

    @Matt BoettingerYes I absolutely asked that in our meeting. He told me he has built several houses 8-9 years ago in Oregon but nothing locally

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    I'd bet the guy doesn't have the experience to pull off a project like this cleanly. He wants to go from building a couple houses a decade ago to building a subdivision now... There's a big difference, and a lot has changed in a decade... 

    If you decide to do this, I would recommend spending a thousand or two on an attorney and get a detailedcontract written up.

  • Real Estate Investor · Springfield, OR · Member since 2013 · 94 posts · 35 votes
    10y

    Having a JV partner could be a great idea on this project, even if this guy might not be the best one. Have you posted your property on the BP marketplace? You might find some more experienced builders/investors who would be interested.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    He can't do owner financing  with you because the bank will require having a first mtg on the property for any construction loan, which means you will likely lose everything should the project falter.  I agree with @J Scott, this likely a pipe dream that will never get off the ground.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Mitchell Benson @J Scott@Wayne Brooks   Mitchell  complete and utter PIPE DREAM

    unless this developer has 25% cash equity on the 2.5 mil PLUS your small equity in the land there is no way he can get this financed.. and as others have stated with this limited experience I highly doubt he can pull this off without a major infusion of capital to the tune of 500k plus... in addition to your lot.

    the LAST thing you want to do is JV or subordinate in this situation.. your interest is far to small. Unless of course if it goes wonky you can pay off the 2.5 mil and take over.

    If you want to hit me off line who this Oregon builder is I can let you know if I know of him or can check him out.. 

    this property is far to inexpensive to make these numbers equate frankly.

  • Developer and Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    Mitchel,

    All good advice from the BP members here. I estimate the buyer will need at least $625k in equity. Therefore, your land equity would only make up 20% of the equity required. Also, has he given you his proforma to show total costs, estimated rents, returns and your percentage ownership in the deal?  There are many more questions that would need to be answered. I'm here in Houston and have developed many commercial sites/developments and would be happy to give you some ideas for your site. 

  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    10y

    thank you all for all the concern and advice. 

    I spoke to him today. This guy said he use to be in real estate in 2005-2006 and got out because he lost a bunch of money. He has been a manager selling time shares for 9 years and looking to get back in it. 

    So he mentioned the loan is not with a bank, or a typical loan. He is being funded by private money... Idk who exactly or what company.

    He said he use to be in the mortgage business so he knows how to structure deal. He currently consults with creating entity's with people. He said the deal will not work for his private money lenders if we don't have a joint venture. 

    Basically he needs some equity in my property to get the deal funded by his private money lenders. I asked about doing a conventional sale but he said the lenders won't want to lend on anything that may not go through. I understand it to an extend but I don't know everything about private money or lending strategies. 

  • Investor · Friendswood, TX · Member since 2016 · 88 posts · 51 votes
    10y

    Run Forrest Run! 

    Mitchell,  from your description of the so called contractor, there is no way I would deal with him. The fact that he was selling timeshares tells me he is a practiced con man. 

  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    10y

    for the record. I don't want to be in a joint venture I just want to sell my property and get out. 

    The guy stated in the contract- 

    The purpose of the joint venture will be to acquire the loan. I will not be responsible for any loans liens or debt the joint venture will have. It states if I don't received 130k by August 31 the contract is null and void. 

    He also put in 2 witness signatures so that if we go to court I have a Wittness who is there to testify I guess

    It says things that make sense....and j really want this deal

  • Wholesaler · Windermere, FL · Member since 2009 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    The fact that he can't get a conventional lender to look at this deal without your equity...tells you everything you need to know.  

  • Investor · Tarzana CA and Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 326 posts · 130 votes
    10y

    this literally doesn't make sense.  With such a low purchase price for land relative to the build he should have no problem getting cash for you and not involve you.  Hard money whatever.  It doesn't sound legit

  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    10y

    my thought is if I sign this contract... What is the worst that could happen? If he doesn't pay me my asking price the contract is void. 

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    You are asking for legal advice and should be discussing your "What is the worst that could happen?" scenarios with legal assistance. I think you grossly underestimate you exposure. You said yourself, "for the record. I don't want to be in a joint venture I just want to sell my property and get out." You need to stick to your game plan, which does not involve a JV/partnership with an undercapitalized developer.

    This post is entertainment and is not to be construed as legal advice.

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Mitchell Benson

    this property is far to inexpensive to make these numbers equate frankly.

    Exactly, but what is the scam?  Is the guy really just pie in the sky or will he and his financing partners encumber him to the point that they will just take the property or try for the OP's deeper pockets?  Just curious.

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    10y

    @Mitchell Benson  I wouldn't even talk to this guy again.  the worst that could happen is this guy will rip you off!  he is setting you up buddy  some of the most experienced people on here have told you that.  stop trying to force the deal.  you will loose your shirt.  How is this guy going to buy your property with no money?? Private money can be very expensive.  if you sign a contract with this guy the property is off the market.  you can no longer try to sell it.  Its a fools bet and at the very least will cost you a bunch of time.  Get an attorney or run like hell cos this is a looser deal.  if you force a deal out of desperation you will loose.  RR

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Other than pie in the sky, the whole thing just sounds off.  If he needs you and the property for equity, there is now way he'll get funding, not to buy the property anyway, within 30 days.  We have no idea what else his "contract says".  Absolutely, positively sit down with a real estate attorney befor e you consider signing anything, no matter how innocent it looks.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    If you are dead set on continuing due diligence...  Ask the guy (developer) the name of his 'private lender'. Ask how long he has known him/her as a (PML) private money lender. Ask where the PML lives, and how the developer knows him/her. Probe every detail. It's a 0.1% possibility that will head towards 0% as the developer waffles. I'll bet $0.25 he obtained his PML from a website.. .LOL!

    Very, very remote chance the PML is legit ... but that doesn't make the deal. PML not legit... that's 'game over' and a complete show stopper. That's just step one. Let us know how that goes...

  • Buy and Holder · Lake Stevens, WA · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    Seriously I go with what j Scott said, and have a attorney draw it up if you want to be on the safe side he will have your best interest I would not go into the deal with out backing and if this dude really wants it he will go along with it.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 137 votes
    10y

    @Mitchell Benson

    @Jay Hinrichs said it best stay away. Sounds like your property is in the path of growth, what could the taxes be on it? Who is selling the property just you? If the property just about tippled in 2 years, just be patient. Can you take terms on the sale, may help you move it?

    You try landwatch,

    Loopnet,

    Cl

    Good Luck,

    Let us know how you do,

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Chris Martin  your on a roll today man.. love your posts !!! and I can't vote for you anymore can only vote for same person twice in a day... so I thought I would mention you.

    this is a total pipe dream and this is why on another =note so many folks get sucked into these lender scams going around on BP they want to believe it so bad  whats 500.00 bucks when the nice person told me i could get a 100% loan at 5% interest etc etc 

  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    10y

    when I asked him who he is using for private lending he said he had 16 different guys he is looking at the deal now & that he hasn't committed to one yet.

    I feel like he has good intentions but I cannot be 100%. I feel like this is either a very smart and creative way to do this transaction, or totally unnecessary.

    He said he needed me to have a position in the deal because the asset is stabilized and can't do it if his lenders don't have a stabilized position. 

    My question is - has anyone ever seen something like this before? 

    What can joint ventures legally mean?

    Is there a business law professional in the woodlands / Conroe / spring area that I can work with to maybe form a contract that would make sense

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Translation "I asked a bunch of lenders, and ran dome people, and no one has said yes". 16 different "lenders"? This guy is a total joke, at best.

  • Buy and Holder · Lake Stevens, WA · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    AMAZING! this guy would turn out to be a total mess keep moving girl.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    So he provided 16 names and addresses of people he knows and will provide private lending of $2.5M? Really. See my prior post. We are at 0.01% and shrinking...

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