Diary of a Rehab. in Providence

Diary of a Rehab. in Providence

Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes

Dear BP community: It is official!  

Through tax lien investing a 2 family house landed on my lap. Like the old adage says, "When life gives you lemons...Make lemonade" and that is what I'm trying to do here.

Here is a description of the property and I'm attaching a pictures.  This property is located in a C class neighborhood in Providence , RI.  The things this house has going for are that is located very close to one of the major hospital in the city, is close proximity to the entrance to Highway I-95 and is the only delapidated property on the block, all other houses are owner occupied and in good condition.

I got the property after foreclosing on it in May 2017, but did not have the time to go and see it until last week.  In the mean time, I found a very nice, local RE agent while I was working in New Zealand (NZ), that offered to help me and she has been extremelly useful as she visited the property, took pics and sent them to me in NZ. She also tried to get 3 contractors to give me 3 bids about how much it would cost to rehab this property.  She did not succeeded on that one.  No many contractors want to work in that part of town :(

I also placed an ads here looking to partner with a General Contractor (GC), but no-one took the opportunity.  Finally through an acquittance I found someone that is interested in partnering with me.  

My initial offer was to form a LLC. I will be the partner buying the materials and covering carrying costs and the contractor will take care of all the work and we will split the profit 50/50. Well...My prospective partner has a different proposal: He wants to work for me. He will give me a discounted rate in the work and will find subcontractors who do the work for a "reasonable price". I will pay him in an schedule, as I would pay any GC and in addition he will get a percentage after the asset is sold as he allegedly will be working for less money. Something that bother me about his proposal is that when I asked for 2 more bid, he seemed annoyed (If I don't get other bids, how do I know that the price he is charging me is descounted? I don't know much about construction, although I have read "The book on estimating rehab cost" by J . Scott)

That is it for now....In my next entry I'll tell you more about the numbers and I hope finally to have a scope of work that I will be discussing with you all. 

I'm going to be blogging my adventures with this project and hoping to get some support, encouragement and advise from the BP community.

Until soon BP community!

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Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

@Vania Castillo is this deal contingent on you partnering with a Contractor? I only ask, because if all the contractor is providing is his labor, then you should really just pay him for his scope and not split any profit.

The reason for this, is actually what you alluded to in your post. You wanted multiple quotes to confirm the "deal" he is going to give you. When you asked he did not want you to. This leads me to believe you are not getting any deal, but paying him full price AND then giving him more money at the end... He is the winner if that is the case.

I can't imagine you couldn't find a contractor willing to simply GC the project for regular rates in that area. This leaves you with all the profit at the end.

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  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    August 7, 2017

    I'm going to document my journey while doing this massive rehab.  I'm new to construction with the only experience under my belt been gutting my own residence (a coop apartment in NY) 5 years ago.  @J. Scott did very well when he documented his journey in to new construction 5 years ago.  Thank you so much for doing that!!  Well...He and his partner had a lot more experience than me, sooo, let's see how a newbie fair at this project :) .  BP community: Please, don't let me hanging!!

    This are the details I have about the project so far: 

    The "subject" is a 2 family C- property with a leaving area of 1,682 Sq Ft. with 4 beds and 2 baths sitting on a 0.07 acres lot.  So far I have invested $10,769.82 in acquiring the property and last week paid first quarter taxes $471,41.

    Looking at comparable, the ARV would be $150,000 and I have seen recent sells (2017) from similar properties go up to $200,000. To be conservative, I'm going to be working with the lower ARV and counting that I have a lot of buffering for errors.

    I'm partnering with a contractor, although I think he is more of a well experienced handyman. He is suppose to give me a S.O.W as I continue doing due diligence and cleaning any horrors in the paperwork. He will be managing the rehab and I'll manage the finances. We are going to create a LLC for this project, although have not define the split.

    We are planning to work on this project in three phases as follows and will sell at any of those point if the right buyer comes along:

    Phase   I: Pre-Rab.-Deep cleaning and demolition for second floor ceiling

    Phase  II: Partial-Rehab.- Replacing roof, putting new windows and doors

    Phase III: Full Rehab 

    Stay tuned!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Vania Castillo is this deal contingent on you partnering with a Contractor? I only ask, because if all the contractor is providing is his labor, then you should really just pay him for his scope and not split any profit.

    The reason for this, is actually what you alluded to in your post. You wanted multiple quotes to confirm the "deal" he is going to give you. When you asked he did not want you to. This leads me to believe you are not getting any deal, but paying him full price AND then giving him more money at the end... He is the winner if that is the case.

    I can't imagine you couldn't find a contractor willing to simply GC the project for regular rates in that area. This leaves you with all the profit at the end.

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    @Brian Pulaski thank you for your comment!  

    Believe it or not, I'm having a hard time finding a contractor willing to even make it to the house to give me an estimate.  He is not providing all labor as the plumbing, electrical and roofing must be contracted out and I'll pay for it.  His contribution is doing some, yes, some of the work, managing the contractors and getting material at a "discount" from his suppliers.  I'm very concerned about the rates/charges he is going to give me, although they will be available for BP community to look at them when he gives them to me and as much as I can I'll compare material's cost with HomeDepot/Lowe's and if I can get some other estimate (unlikely). 

    As I mentioned, for this deal to work I need a contractor to work for or with me.  As @Brandon Turner says "part of a deal is better than a 100% of no deal".  Trying to protect myself, I'll look at his number in comparison to @J. Scott's book and will place the S.O.W  here for Review.

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    This is the condition I found the inside of the building during my visit to the property last week. Both unit are in similar condition of disarray although in the second floor unit the ceiling has caved in......

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    August 8, 2017

    Navigating the sea of insurances....

    Can someone, please  shed some light regarding what insurance to take for my project?

    @Patrick Liska once shared in thread: "Vacant policy covers the existing structure plus improvements as they are done. the builders risk insures the material and i believe aspects of the project as it is built, since there is no structure. so if you happen to take a builders risk and you are doing reno, it may not cover you for the existing structure ."

    Based on the description of the plan I have for this project, what makes more sense and is more cost effective: taking a vacant policy or a builder risk policy?  Will moving temporarily in a part-time basics to the property once one of the unit is in livable condition will save me money in insurance as I can change it to owner occupied?

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    @Andy Krzanowsky thank you for your input.  Indeed I need someone with experience/trustworthy in  my situation.  I'm awaiting for S.O.W estimates and will try my best to compare it when I get it.  I'm not in a hurry, but keeping cost under control is VERY important to me.

    You could not see the pic a posted from the inside?  I'm new to this, please let me know.

    Thank you!

  • Surveyor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Vania,

    I can't see the interior photos on this. 

    Have you considered putting this in an auction? 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Photos aren't showing.

    Is your potential GC refusing to get multiple quotes from the different subs or does he not want you to verify his own costs? Did he indicate what kind of deal he will be giving you, so he can share the profits? 

    Have you discussed with any local real estate investors to find a reputable GC who will actually give you a bid? 

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y
  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    Please let me know whether the photos are showing now.  My prospective partner says he is going  to get several quotes for the subs.  

    Local investor in RI are very reserved, although I'm in touch with @Anthony Thompson, however the person he referred me to was not receptive and did not pick up the phone or returned my phone calls.

    @Stuart Smith the idea of an option is a good one, although I don't know how it it works.   I'd like to learn more about it.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    These photos did show up. Good to hear the GC is open to other bids. Is he required to share the bids with you? I imagine so.

  • Brookline, MA · Member since 2017 · 49 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    Just wanted to add that this kind of GC behavior is common in the Boston area as well. I went to a home ownership class years ago that advised getting 10 estimates. I had to LOL on that one... it is very difficult to get even three GCs in Boston and surrounding suburbs to even come LOOK at your job, nevermind an estimate. These guys are swamped.

  • Investor and Licensed Agent · Glocester, RI · Member since 2012 · 90 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Hi Vania Castillo I'm an investor here in RI. I agree that contractors are unreliable, but I think you need someone in RI that's a bit more familiar with the area. I know providence and the different neighborhoods pretty well. Feel free to call or email me tomorrow and we can chat. I think you should be getting a better response here. Thanks and good luck!
  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    @Brian Pulaski Yes, I'm expecting the he gives me the quotes for all the bids he gets.  That is how I/we can have a more realistic idea of the budget and cost of our project.

    @Julia Ann Same experience here in R.I., Julia.  I also smiled at the idea of getting 10 estimates :)

    @Jesse Andrews. Thank you for contributing.  I'll call you later today!

  • Rental Property Investor · Proctorville, OH · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 4 votes
    9y
    That is true that getting estimates in Boston/Providence involves making a lot of phone calls to contractors that don't even show up.
  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    August 16, 2017

    Today, I spoke to the foreclosure lawyer who reassured me about my ownership of the property and told me that I could start working on it.  I offered to go to Providence, so we could go together to City Hall and clarify the situation, but he said that that was not necessary.

    My prospective partner still has not given me any references, or the S.O.W :(

    After clarifying the paperwork, next thing to do is to get insurance.  Vacant policy vs Builders risk.  Any suggestions out there???

  • Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y
    Vania Castillo these projects are my bread and butter. Let's schedule a call where we can discuss what you'd like to do with this. You may have more options available to you than you think. Take a look at my profile and the link to our FB Page. You will be able to see what we do with our own properties, and the properties of our customers.
  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    @Brandon Ingegneri thanks you for contributing to this post.  I did checked out your FB page.  Love the quality of your work.  Looking forward to finally getting some numbers!

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    August 21, 2017

    My perspective partner never provided me with a S.O.W and has vanished.  

    Finally... I have one of 2 estimates for states I and II of this project and I'd like to share it with you all

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Vania Castillo sorry to hear about the "partner", but it is probably for the best he disappeared now.

    Who put together this bid/scope? I would question why the roof is TBD. He should be able to price the roof, with a caveat that framing or unforeseen will be above and beyond that price. A basic asphalt shingle replacement in CT cost me $350/SQ, with a licensed and insured guy and that included permit. Any bad plywood/roofers was $65/sheet (roughly $2/SF).

  • Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y

    @Brian Pulaski it should be noted that this roof is a complete tear off and rebuild and that I am speaking with the Providence Building Dept to determine exactly how they would like it reframed.  The house does not meet the current code.  We are waiting on a determination of whether it can be brought back to existing condition, or if additional provisions will be needed.  

    If this were a standard strip and roof, price per square would apply.  In this particular case, the existing structure is structurally compromised, and it will need to be removed, re-framed, re-sheathed, and re-roofed. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Brandon Ingegneri thanks for the follow up, that would make sense as there is an open ended city involvement that could tack on a lot of costs. Does the roof need to be sloped differently, or is it an issue with the framing that was used?

  • Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y

    The current issue is framing, pitch, and access.  

    The property has substantial overgrowth limiting access to fully encompass the scope related to the roof.  Therefore, I can not do a complete 360 of the property. The current roof is not structurally sound to investigate.  Additionally, the property needs to be cleaned out.  So, my game plan was as follows:  Perform a trash out of the property and selective demolition work on the interior.  Clear the land, and then determine and attack a comprehensive scope of work related to the roof and structure.  From what I was able to see upon the initial inspection, we do not have sufficient pitch to the existing structure, and I believe that in conjunction with the condition of the roof is the reason why there is substantial damage to the second level of the property.  

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    Thank you so much for your feedback guys!!!

    I was super busy las week.  I'm glad the week finished.  I still continue exploring my options and have not decided what to do yet.

    Taxes are up to date as I took care of an outstanding tax lien on the property.  

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    The options for exit strategies continue open.  Hopefully, I can have a clear path soon and continue moving forward with this project or the next one.

    Through this process, I have learned so much about people's characters in the business.  This sector is totally different to what I'm used to, so it is a learning process.  

    I thought this journey would be only about numbers and materials and it is not.  I'm very appreciative of those that had come on my path and offered guidance and support.

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