Who is liable if lot is not Buildable?
Investor · Lithonia, GA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 2 votes
Who is liable if lot is not Buildable?
Most Popular Reply
Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y@Sophia Berry
The only person responsible is YOU. Perform your due diligence.
26 Replies
- Lender · Member since 2019 · 604 posts · 160 votes7y
@Sophia Berry Check with the town and building department. Don't get a survey until you get those answers.
- 7yKenneth GarrettPro MemberInvestor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I agree with @Fred Shatzoff check with the city. Could be numerous reasons there not built on; bad soil, flood zone, odd shaped lots, easement, etc. Call the building and zoning department. This should always be part of your due diligence.
Good Luck.
- Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
@Sophia Berry
The only person responsible is YOU. Perform your due diligence.
- Investor · Lithonia, GA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 2 votes7y
Thank you so much everyone. I will start with the building department.
Wet lands are a big problem here. We own a double lot & even though we have a pole barn on the back of the adjoining lot they designated the remainder of the lot 'wet lands' & we can't build on it.
We have seen many such cul de sacs come up on Tax Lien auctions here for the same reason. Wet Land designation = you can't build. The town should have these areas defined, some do some haven't.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes7y
@Sophia Berry as you can see there are a lot of reasons a lot may be unbuildable. A lot more than mentioned here.
No a survey is simply to tel you the boundaries of your property. While an experienced surveyor may have an opinion that is not their job or expertise.
Sometimes you can ask the neighbors. A friend of mine was the 2nd home on a cut-de sac. As others built over the months they watched as water from the entire neighborhood collected/flooded on to the lowest lot. Needless to say, that lot didn’t sell until winter when it wasn’t so obvious.
- 7yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
A surveyor can tell you the boundaries and size, not sure if they flag for wetlands too. The town building department will let you know if it is an acceptable lot size. Allowed lot sizes can change over time due to town ordinance. Also, even part wetlands can be unbuildable because there is nowhere to put the house. maybe he did run out of money or interest in the area but I would look for other causes before purchase.
I would ask the builder why they didn't build on them. Did you ask?
That is unusual. Are they the last of the subdevelopment? Or are they abandoned?
It is rare for a builder to *not* finish out a subdevelopment.
Are you building a custom house on their lot? What about their homeplans?
A surveyor is for easements and lot lines.
What you need is an engineer -- someone to tell you about the grade and suitability of building. The builder already has all this. Also, certain lots require certain types of homes. For example, some lots require two stories with a full walk-out basement, some don't. Also, time of year and timelines are really important with lots.
I would start with builder.
Forgot to add @Sophia Berry - please see above!
- 7yJared W SmithBusiness MemberArchitect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
Actually @Ann North, an architect is more likely to have the skills and experience to know if a lot is buildable. Though an engineer may have general information on the actual construction of the building, they won't be the one doing zoning/Code analysis. Plus grading and land viability for structure is a different animal than buildability.
As others have said, a surveyor will have little to no information on if a lot can be built on. Steer clear of even asking them.
Also, yes the building department will have the varied information on the lots but they may not do the work for you. And if you are not familiar with these documents and maps, you could miss something. Buildability is combination of looking at lot sizes, zoning maps & codes/resolution, and some building codes. Therefore they may very well tell you to hire an architect to review all this and provide you a detailed breakdown of what your options are for building. @Sophia Berry
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews @Jared W Smith - Land Engineer. They focus on soil and grade -- and buildable land. I'm from a family of custom home builders. That's how they're referred to by builders. It's not like a mechanical engineer. It's a land engineer who knows land and plot development. As you know :) architects focus on the drafts and blueprints of a houseplan. They cost a fortune, also. Of course they know land and lots but they don't know developing raw land -- that's an engineer. Most builders in subdevelopments use master planned floorplans with limited options (which are all copyrighted, by the way) and use draftspeople, not architects.
- 7yJared W SmithBusiness MemberArchitect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
@Ann North, it’s obvious we are both in the industry and I am well aware of the types of engineers as I deal with many on a daily basis. I was speaking of civil and structural engineer..
“Land” Engineer = Macro; large land masses & Developing (Soil and site feasibility can be done by civil engineer, however that’s AFTER determining if you can actually build on lot.)
Architect (with Civil Engineer) = Micro; development on a particular lot (possibly part of Builder’s responsibilities)
@Sophia Berry said the lots are already established. In my experience as I said previously, engineers don’t do individual lot develop unless large scale. Nevertheless, I won’t split hair. We may be saying the same thing just different terminology.
Good day all.
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews @Jared W Smith ok thanks for clarifying, I think we are. My response was to the OP asking "who is liable"? and that she wanted to know why lots were abandoned in a subdivision.
My response was that really no one is liable except yourself/herself. Also, that it is highly unusual for a builder to abandon a development, unless they went broke.
Even if the lots were deemed "wetlands" or something to that effect they would've known prior to selecting the area as a subdivision and would've known before going in.
So if OP wanted to know what was up with the lots, I advised her to contact the builder.
The builder would've had the "engineer" or land engineer or whomever vendor they use - do all the land analysis and would've developed the lots. If the builder isn't available and she doesn't have the knowledge, I'd proceed carefully. It's a lot to learn and take on as you know! If the lots are already developed then it's two questions, I guess... 1) why isn't the development finished out? Why are these lots left behind? 2) Are they buildable?
Good luck all!
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 553 posts · 314 votes7y
What we're missing here is the fact that the land developer and the builder often aren't the same people. 2006 was the start of the housing crash as the large publicly traded home builders started to pull back in preparation for what they saw as a cyclical recession. A lot of lots went undeveloped around this time. There are still a couple dozen behind my childhood home, and there are newer developments around it that bypassed it completely.
It's entirely possible that the lots didn't get built for economic reasons.
I'm going to guess that this development is exurban and populated by starter homes? - Real Estate Agent · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 359 posts · 295 votes7y
@Sophia Berry the city/township will be able to tell you. i work for an appraisal firm & we are required to report whether an additional parcel is buildable with the city. they will also be able to tell you what the setbacks, etc are.
@Sophia Berry "Buildable" means different things...
1st, take the name of the subdivision and the address of the nearest home to whoever has jurisdiction for Planning and Zoning. If you're unsure who this is, call the County Government. They should be able to tell you if it is them or some City, like maybe the City of Lithonia. You might call that City also to be sure they agree. Planning/Zoning can tell you what the lot is zoned for, for example they may say "R1" which probably means a SFR. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable" and if it is a flood plain.
2nd call the Building Department that has Jurisdiction. The PLanning/Zoning folks can tell you who that is. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable."
I suspect both of these will say "yes."
3rd Ask the seller of the lots for copies of the "Setbacks" and the "Covenants and Restrictions" for the neighborhood. The Setbacks are shown on a drawing and should show the boundaries of the lots and things like an "easements" which is an area you can build a house on - but you can probably put a driveway on. There may be an easement for drainage in a "swale" that you would not be allowed to build on. I would suspect that a drainage easement would be the likely risk in my area. Water will flow through that easement area during heavy rains.
The Seller and your realtor should be able to give you some sense of why those lots are leftover. It could be for financial reasons. Or maybe there is something about them, like these easements, that make them undesirable.
I suspect these lots are buildable as far as the parties above are concerned or they would not have been platted as homesites in a subdivision.
The 4th thing to check is sewer. If there is a sewer system in the subdivision it's likely that all is fine; however, if people there have septic systems then you'll need to check with whoever has jurisdiction for that, probably a Health Department in the County. Those folks will tell you the soil requirements. Normally there is a way to get a septic systems for most soils but some are much more expensive than others.
The 5th thing to check is driveway access permit at the County Highway Dept or City Street dept. I suspect getting a driveway permit will be easy or it would not have been platted as a subdivision.
AT that point you'll probably have an answer.
You could also as a Builder/General Contractor about considerations for building there. A Builder is the first stop for most people as the Builder typically pulls the building permit and takes care of all this stuff. Your main concern before buying is that the buildable space on the lot will allow you to fit the home you want, plus a driveway, septic system if needed, etc.
In my area an Architect would be optional and an Engineer (Professional licensed Engineer) would likely not have a role, his work already being done when the subdivision was originally platted.
A surveyor's role would typically only be to use the subdivision setbacks/easement drawings which are on file at the City or County to determine the actual physical lot boundaries - and those all important easements - and set out stakes or flags so that you can visually see where your boundaries area. He would be responsible for getting those in the right place.
Thanks @Scott P. spoken like a true builder! You said it much better than I did.
It almost makes me miss my family's builder business! I used to go walk raw land/ lots with buyers so they could see the stakes where their property would end.
The only other caveat I mentioned above is sometimes people don't realize the lot and grade can dictate the type of house to be built. For example, ramblers (or ranch if you're out west) go on certain lots and two-story full walk-outs go on different lots.
Great points and very helpful @BiggerPockets .com might want to make it a sticky post!
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes7y
Caveat emptor.
Its your job to do your due diligence when buying real estate.
District Invest Group545 Reviews - 7yClint ShelleyPro MemberSurveyor · Dothan, AL · Member since 2014 · 425 posts · 391 votes
Why not blame it on the surveyor. It seems to be the MO these days. SMDH.
Clint
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Seth Borman:
What we're missing here is the fact that the land developer and the builder often aren't the same people. 2006 was the start of the housing crash as the large publicly traded home builders started to pull back in preparation for what they saw as a cyclical recession. A lot of lots went undeveloped around this time. There are still a couple dozen behind my childhood home, and there are newer developments around it that bypassed it completely.
It's entirely possible that the lots didn't get built for economic reasons.
I'm going to guess that this development is exurban and populated by starter homes?exactly when I was buying courthouse steps in atlanta 2012 I looked at many a pipe farm I was trying to raise money from investors I saw 100 lot subdivision fully competed I would have bought for 100 to 200k for the WHOLE thing.. investors would fire back but it does not cash flow LOL.. I did buy lots on my own though in Henry county.. I bought out one subdivisions of 30 lots 1/2 acre from a bank for 3k a lot held them 2 years and sold them off one by one for 30k each.. I could raise money for rentals but the rentals never made near the money those lots would have.. I could have turned 1 mil into 10 million very easy.. your right the reason those are not built on I would almost gurantee I strictly financial.
Plus a lot of advice from folks form the NE .. this is residential GA.. if you have utls and a legal lot of record ( which title company can tell you that and the planning department) then your good to go.. with fresh lots like these all those who worry about wetlands etc this has all been mitigated when the development was done a last decade these are not 1920s platted lots that now have issues.. I will say this as being 97% correct in my assumptions and your thought process as well. its simply financial
now to be fair there are odd ball lots in GA ATL area that will have slope and drainage issue but those can be addressed however one wants to be careful just because U can build does not mean a home would sell easy.. like a big negative grade to get to garage or a big positive grade.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Scott P.:
@Sophia Berry "Buildable" means different things...
1st, take the name of the subdivision and the address of the nearest home to whoever has jurisdiction for Planning and Zoning. If you're unsure who this is, call the County Government. They should be able to tell you if it is them or some City, like maybe the City of Lithonia. You might call that City also to be sure they agree. Planning/Zoning can tell you what the lot is zoned for, for example they may say "R1" which probably means a SFR. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable" and if it is a flood plain.
2nd call the Building Department that has Jurisdiction. The PLanning/Zoning folks can tell you who that is. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable."
I suspect both of these will say "yes."
3rd Ask the seller of the lots for copies of the "Setbacks" and the "Covenants and Restrictions" for the neighborhood. The Setbacks are shown on a drawing and should show the boundaries of the lots and things like an "easements" which is an area you can build a house on - but you can probably put a driveway on. There may be an easement for drainage in a "swale" that you would not be allowed to build on. I would suspect that a drainage easement would be the likely risk in my area. Water will flow through that easement area during heavy rains.
The Seller and your realtor should be able to give you some sense of why those lots are leftover. It could be for financial reasons. Or maybe there is something about them, like these easements, that make them undesirable.
I suspect these lots are buildable as far as the parties above are concerned or they would not have been platted as homesites in a subdivision.
The 4th thing to check is sewer. If there is a sewer system in the subdivision it's likely that all is fine; however, if people there have septic systems then you'll need to check with whoever has jurisdiction for that, probably a Health Department in the County. Those folks will tell you the soil requirements. Normally there is a way to get a septic systems for most soils but some are much more expensive than others.
The 5th thing to check is driveway access permit at the County Highway Dept or City Street dept. I suspect getting a driveway permit will be easy or it would not have been platted as a subdivision.
AT that point you'll probably have an answer.
You could also as a Builder/General Contractor about considerations for building there. A Builder is the first stop for most people as the Builder typically pulls the building permit and takes care of all this stuff. Your main concern before buying is that the buildable space on the lot will allow you to fit the home you want, plus a driveway, septic system if needed, etc.
In my area an Architect would be optional and an Engineer (Professional licensed Engineer) would likely not have a role, his work already being done when the subdivision was originally platted.
A surveyor's role would typically only be to use the subdivision setbacks/easement drawings which are on file at the City or County to determine the actual physical lot boundaries - and those all important easements - and set out stakes or flags so that you can visually see where your boundaries area. He would be responsible for getting those in the right place.
CCR's we would get from the title company they are of record..
- Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Scott P.:
@Sophia Berry "Buildable" means different things...
1st, take the name of the subdivision and the address of the nearest home to whoever has jurisdiction for Planning and Zoning. If you're unsure who this is, call the County Government. They should be able to tell you if it is them or some City, like maybe the City of Lithonia. You might call that City also to be sure they agree. Planning/Zoning can tell you what the lot is zoned for, for example they may say "R1" which probably means a SFR. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable" and if it is a flood plain.
2nd call the Building Department that has Jurisdiction. The PLanning/Zoning folks can tell you who that is. Ask them if the Lot is "buildable."
I suspect both of these will say "yes."
3rd Ask the seller of the lots for copies of the "Setbacks" and the "Covenants and Restrictions" for the neighborhood. The Setbacks are shown on a drawing and should show the boundaries of the lots and things like an "easements" which is an area you can build a house on - but you can probably put a driveway on. There may be an easement for drainage in a "swale" that you would not be allowed to build on. I would suspect that a drainage easement would be the likely risk in my area. Water will flow through that easement area during heavy rains.
The Seller and your realtor should be able to give you some sense of why those lots are leftover. It could be for financial reasons. Or maybe there is something about them, like these easements, that make them undesirable.
I suspect these lots are buildable as far as the parties above are concerned or they would not have been platted as homesites in a subdivision.
The 4th thing to check is sewer. If there is a sewer system in the subdivision it's likely that all is fine; however, if people there have septic systems then you'll need to check with whoever has jurisdiction for that, probably a Health Department in the County. Those folks will tell you the soil requirements. Normally there is a way to get a septic systems for most soils but some are much more expensive than others.
The 5th thing to check is driveway access permit at the County Highway Dept or City Street dept. I suspect getting a driveway permit will be easy or it would not have been platted as a subdivision.
AT that point you'll probably have an answer.
You could also as a Builder/General Contractor about considerations for building there. A Builder is the first stop for most people as the Builder typically pulls the building permit and takes care of all this stuff. Your main concern before buying is that the buildable space on the lot will allow you to fit the home you want, plus a driveway, septic system if needed, etc.
In my area an Architect would be optional and an Engineer (Professional licensed Engineer) would likely not have a role, his work already being done when the subdivision was originally platted.
A surveyor's role would typically only be to use the subdivision setbacks/easement drawings which are on file at the City or County to determine the actual physical lot boundaries - and those all important easements - and set out stakes or flags so that you can visually see where your boundaries area. He would be responsible for getting those in the right place.
CCR's we would get from the title company they are of record..
I came across this today, Jay. Did your company build this property?
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