Seller carryback 1st position note - Holder will not give a payoff amount
Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 1 vote
Seller carryback 1st position note - Holder will not give a payoff amount
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesthere are legal ways to pay these off.. check with title company first for free what they require to get title insurance for new buyer. other wise probably need a lawyer to file some sort of quiet title action to force the issue.
14 Replies
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
there are legal ways to pay these off.. check with title company first for free what they require to get title insurance for new buyer. other wise probably need a lawyer to file some sort of quiet title action to force the issue.
- Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 1 vote2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
there are legal ways to pay these off.. check with title company first for free what they require to get title insurance for new buyer. other wise probably need a lawyer to file some sort of quiet title action to force the issue.
Thanks Jay, I appreciate the response.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
Quote from @Clifford Firthh:
Looking for advice on a property I'm working on. Owner had left the property about a year ago to take care of a sick relative and squatters took over the property and they haven't been able to return. They have tried to obtain a payoff to sell the property, but the holder of the seller carryback will not give a payoff. The loan is approximately 12 years into a 30-year term. No prepayment penalty. Has anyone ever dealt with this?
This is why anytime someone does seller carryback as a buyer you want to have a licensed servicer involved. Why? This reason and how do you know they are even calculating interest properly.
1. I would get an attorney and would send a certified letter to the lender AND copy the state banking regulators and attorney general.
2. If still no response then file legal action
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 1 vote2y
Thanks Chris, appreciate the response.
- Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes2y
In my experience, most states have a statutory requirement for a lender to provide the borrower, or the borrower's representative, a payoff letter. I'd find the statute in the property's state and send a certified letter referencing it to the lender demanding the payoff.
- Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 1 vote2y
Quote from @Peter Walther:
In my experience, most states have a statutory requirement for a lender to provide the borrower, or the borrower's representative, a payoff letter. I'd find the statute in the property's state and send a certified letter referencing it to the lender demanding the payoff.
Thanks Peter, I'm going to pm you.
- Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust. There is no legal time line for servicer to answer outside parties requests. A title officer can email a request if you have the correct loan number, borrower names, and ID and maybe servicer will respond with a number and seven days for that number to be good with per dium added on top. There are payoff fees and we assume you have late payment fees...
Since borrowers sound to be ghosts and you have squatters to evict, what was original note amount, last payment made, and do you have any statements or notices from the servicer? I assume NOD was filed, how long ago?
You could take an amortization schedule and guess the principle amount and add a couple thousand for legal fees and late payments and try to short pay it to hold off foreclosure. How many liens are there?
- Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes2y
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust. There is no legal time line for servicer to answer outside parties requests. A title officer can email a request if you have the correct loan number, borrower names, and ID and maybe servicer will respond with a number and seven days for that number to be good with per dium added on top. There are payoff fees and we assume you have late payment fees...
Since borrowers sound to be ghosts and you have squatters to evict, what was original note amount, last payment made, and do you have any statements or notices from the servicer? I assume NOD was filed, how long ago?
You could take an amortization schedule and guess the principle amount and add a couple thousand for legal fees and late payments and try to short pay it to hold off foreclosure. How many liens are there?
Florida Statute 701.04 Cancellation of mortgages, liens, and judgments.—(1)(a) Within 10 days after receipt of the written request of a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property, the mortgagee or mortgage servicer shall send or cause to be sent an estoppel letter setting forth the unpaid balance of the loan secured by the mortgage. If the written request is made by a person other than the mortgagor, the request must include a copy of the instrument showing such person’s title in the property or other lawful authorization, and the mortgagee or mortgage servicer must notify the mortgagor of the request.
- Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust. There is no legal time line for servicer to answer outside parties requests. A title officer can email a request if you have the correct loan number, borrower names, and ID and maybe servicer will respond with a number and seven days for that number to be good with per dium added on top. There are payoff fees and we assume you have late payment fees...
Since borrowers sound to be ghosts and you have squatters to evict, what was original note amount, last payment made, and do you have any statements or notices from the servicer? I assume NOD was filed, how long ago?
You could take an amortization schedule and guess the principle amount and add a couple thousand for legal fees and late payments and try to short pay it to hold off foreclosure. How many liens are there?
Florida Statute 701.04 Cancellation of mortgages, liens, and judgments.—(1)(a) Within 10 days after receipt of the written request of a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property, the mortgagee or mortgage servicer shall send or cause to be sent an estoppel letter setting forth the unpaid balance of the loan secured by the mortgage. If the written request is made by a person other than the mortgagor, the request must include a copy of the instrument showing such person’s title in the property or other lawful authorization, and the mortgagee or mortgage servicer must notify the mortgagor of the request.
As I read it - Clifford is not on title. Without clear title the servicer doesn't have to talk to him, no he has no legal rights. Otherwise any thousand persons could be ordering payoffs which incur costs usually like $50-$100 per for their own snoop reasons. He's only "working on" buying or wrapping...
- Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes2y
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust. There is no legal time line for servicer to answer outside parties requests. A title officer can email a request if you have the correct loan number, borrower names, and ID and maybe servicer will respond with a number and seven days for that number to be good with per dium added on top. There are payoff fees and we assume you have late payment fees...
Since borrowers sound to be ghosts and you have squatters to evict, what was original note amount, last payment made, and do you have any statements or notices from the servicer? I assume NOD was filed, how long ago?
You could take an amortization schedule and guess the principle amount and add a couple thousand for legal fees and late payments and try to short pay it to hold off foreclosure. How many liens are there?
Florida Statute 701.04 Cancellation of mortgages, liens, and judgments.—(1)(a) Within 10 days after receipt of the written request of a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property, the mortgagee or mortgage servicer shall send or cause to be sent an estoppel letter setting forth the unpaid balance of the loan secured by the mortgage. If the written request is made by a person other than the mortgagor, the request must include a copy of the instrument showing such person’s title in the property or other lawful authorization, and the mortgagee or mortgage servicer must notify the mortgagor of the request.
As I read it - Clifford is not on title. Without clear title the servicer doesn't have to talk to him, no he has no legal rights. Otherwise any thousand persons could be ordering payoffs which incur costs usually like $50-$100 per for their own snoop reasons. He's only "working on" buying or wrapping...
I don't know what interest, if any, Clifford has in the property, I was addressing your advice that only a person on the original note and deed of trust has a right to a payoff. This Florida statute appears clear, one does not need to be on title to be entitled to a payoff, only to be lawfully appointed to act on behalf of the current owner, say an attorney in fact. It appears a similar rule applies in CA under CA Civil Code Sec 2943(a)(2).
- Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
@Peter Walther read what he said. Clifford has zero ownership, he's thinking about making a deal. Clifford has no rights to information from the servicer/ note trustee/ or lender. Read the law you posted. He is not a fiduciary, he is not on title, has no authorization from owner. When shopping for options a buyer cannot find out the terms/conditions/order payoffs. Why would you quote something that does not apply in FL or CA?
a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property, - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
@Clifford Firthh
What’s the outcome ?
7e investments53 Reviews - Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes2y
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
@Peter Walther read what he said. Clifford has zero ownership, he's thinking about making a deal. Clifford has no rights to information from the servicer/ note trustee/ or lender. Read the law you posted. He is not a fiduciary, he is not on title, has no authorization from owner. When shopping for options a buyer cannot find out the terms/conditions/order payoffs. Why would you quote something that does not apply in FL or CA?
a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property,Let me try on more time, neither you nor I know what interest Clifford may have in the property, if any. He originally wrote "they (presumably the Owner) have tried to obtain a payoff to sell the property, but the holder of the seller carryback will not give a payoff." Clifford to not allege or imply that he is trying to obtain a payoff. To which you replied, "Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust."
I merely pointed out your advice is incorrect as to mortgages secured by Florida property. Anyone lawfully representing the mortgagor or record title holder in entitled to a payoff within 10 days of a written request. I really don't understand why you're making such a big deal about this.
As an aside, the OP doesn't mention anything about a servicer being involved.
- Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 1 vote2y
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
@Peter Walther read what he said. Clifford has zero ownership, he's thinking about making a deal. Clifford has no rights to information from the servicer/ note trustee/ or lender. Read the law you posted. He is not a fiduciary, he is not on title, has no authorization from owner. When shopping for options a buyer cannot find out the terms/conditions/order payoffs. Why would you quote something that does not apply in FL or CA?
a mortgagor, a record title owner of the property, a fiduciary or trustee lawfully acting on behalf of a record title owner, or any other person lawfully authorized to act on behalf of a mortgagor or record title owner of the property,Let me try on more time, neither you nor I know what interest Clifford may have in the property, if any. He originally wrote "they (presumably the Owner) have tried to obtain a payoff to sell the property, but the holder of the seller carryback will not give a payoff." Clifford to not allege or imply that he is trying to obtain a payoff. To which you replied, "Servicer is under zero obligation to respond to payoff requests, or any inquiry from people who are not on the original note and deed of trust."
I merely pointed out your advice is incorrect as to mortgages secured by Florida property. Anyone lawfully representing the mortgagor or record title holder in entitled to a payoff within 10 days of a written request. I really don't understand why you're making such a big deal about this.
As an aside, the OP doesn't mention anything about a servicer being involved.
This is correct. The owner has tried to get a payoff, not myself. There is also no servicer, payments were made directly. I appreciate the information!
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.