Out of State Investing Question: Why Not Buy Better Assets Together?

Out of State Investing Question: Why Not Buy Better Assets Together?

Stuart UdisPro Member
Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I observe a lot of discussion here about investing in distant markets because the real estate is cheaper and appears to produce stronger cash flow. That approach has clearly become mainstream. What I struggle with is that much of this lower-cost housing has weak fundamentals and very little margin for error. When investors rely entirely on third-party property management and vendors, those properties can rarely comfortably absorb normal operating expenses, capital expenditures, vacancy, and other costs associated with real estate ownership.

I understand that some people live in markets where local investing simply doesn’t work. But if investors are already willing to invest out of state, why isn’t there more discussion around forming small capital-only JVs with one or a few other investors to buy higher-quality assets instead? I’m not talking about partnerships where one person “does the work” and the other supplies the down payment capital and/or financing. I mean situations where each member has capital, credit, and financing ability on their own, but together they become a stronger guarantor and buyer in the eyes of a lender and can qualify for better real estate. You’d still use third-party management and vendors, but the underlying asset can absorb those costs more effectively.

There’s a large middle ground between solo ownership and full-blown syndications that rarely gets discussed. What holds investors back from this approach? Is it control concerns, partnership risk, legal complexity, or simply that most education is framed around owning alone or syndicating a 50+ unit apartment building? Genuinely interested in hearing why this model isn’t considered more often because the simplest partnership arrangements are capital partnerships where most if not all duties are delegated to 3rd parties which is exactly what I am referring to.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9mo

these kind of partnerships would be used for those with less capacity to buy higher dollar investments I get that.. but think of the experience level and then the squabbling that comes from partners over minor issues. Also depends on ones circle of friends relatives or acquaintances. Then there are cultural difference's were some will not want partners no matter what. 

The investment club model seems to be taking off and that might be the middle ground your talking about.  

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9mo

    these kind of partnerships would be used for those with less capacity to buy higher dollar investments I get that.. but think of the experience level and then the squabbling that comes from partners over minor issues. Also depends on ones circle of friends relatives or acquaintances. Then there are cultural difference's were some will not want partners no matter what. 

    The investment club model seems to be taking off and that might be the middle ground your talking about.  

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    9mo

    Great idea and post Stuart!

    Agree with you about investor expectations vs reality - most expect Class A results from the Class C properties they buy:(

    Regarding your idea of small, capital-only JV's - most newbie investors don't even invest enough time in researching & understanding the 1-4 unit properties they're currently buying.

    What you're suggesting, while relatively simple compared to a syndication, is even more complex:
    - How successful would capital calls be?
    - Who would have authority with the PMC when needed?
    - So many more minor issues that become a nightmare when too many people are involved.

    It would also fall on "deaf ears" unless organizations like BiggerPockets got behind the idea and promoted it just like they've promoted Househacking, BRRRs & such to the naive masses.

    But then I'm sure we'd see "junior syndicators" filling the gap and many of them, through ineptitude or theft, ruining the concept:(

    Actually, now that I think about it, there are fractional ownership companies popping up to do this. 

  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9mo

    You get the downsides of lower returns, less liquidity, and less control, what are the upsides? Can you imagine the haircut you’d take if you wanted to sell and others didn’t? 10%, 20%? You could easily lose 5-10 years of return. On the other side what if you didn’t want to sell and the others did, too bad, you’re selling. In to a loss, in to a bad market, in to a high tax year? Too bad. 

    You mentioned your target audience being people who could already afford to do it themselves. I don’t think they’d be interested. Your only chance would be people who couldn’t do it solo. So they’re willing to lose control and accept lower returns. Maybe you’re thinking of something like a syndication with no leader for midsize multifamily? Is so get a VERY good lawyer, see if the SEC is going to be concerned if you’re not already related/doing business. Do they need to be accredited investors? I dunno, do you?  Then get everyone to agree on who’s really in charge. When to sell, how long people have to contribute more capital for capex, what to do if someone won’t pay in, who controls refinance decisions, who gets to research and choose the management company, etc etc etc.  

    I think the gap you’re trying to fill between a single person buying a $500k - $1M property themselves and small syndications buying $1-$5M properties is just too small.  But please go ahead and let me know how it works out. Good luck. 

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      9mo
      Quote from @Bill B.:

      You get the downsides of lower returns, less liquidity, and less control, what are the upsides? Can you imagine the haircut you’d take if you wanted to sell and others didn’t? 10%, 20%? You could easily lose 5-10 years of return. On the other side what if you didn’t want to sell and the others did, too bad, you’re selling. In to a loss, in to a bad market, in to a high tax year? Too bad. 

      You mentioned your target audience being people who could already afford to do it themselves. I don’t think they’d be interested. Your only chance would be people who couldn’t do it solo. So they’re willing to lose control and accept lower returns. Maybe you’re thinking of something like a syndication with no leader for midsize multifamily? Is so get a VERY good lawyer, see if the SEC is going to be concerned if you’re not already related/doing business. Do they need to be accredited investors? I dunno, do you?  Then get everyone to agree on who’s really in charge. When to sell, how long people have to contribute more capital for capex, what to do if someone won’t pay in, who controls refinance decisions, who gets to research and choose the management company, etc etc etc.  

      I think the gap you’re trying to fill between a single person buying a $500k - $1M property themselves and small syndications buying $1-$5M properties is just too small.  But please go ahead and let me know how it works out. Good luck. 


      Bill on the issue of when to sell etc.. what state of CA came out with do deal with this regarding fractionalized Deed of Trust investments.. The disclosure require there be a leader who has the right to control the investment. independent of others.. I ran into this in 1990 when the crash in the Real Estate Market in SF Bay area created a ton of foreclosures I had a loan on a really great home on Green st. Two out of Six investors would not kick in. and the home was lost for 800k.  It had an MAI apprasial 2 years before when I did the loan for 2 mil.
      it sold late 90s for 3 mil and today or at least maybe pre interest rates probably worth 7 to 10 mil.
  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9mo

    @Jay Hinrichs I think you have literally done everything.

    My biggest regrets are properties I didn’t buy that are worth hundreds of thousands more than I could have bought them for. I don’t need million dollar regrets. :-). 

  • G. Brian DavisPro Member
    Investor · Hatboro, PA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 866 votes
    9mo

    I’m in a co-investing group and hear this concern a lot. Many investors I talk to have been burned in syndication-style deals and, as a result, prefer to maintain control over their own investments out of fear of operator risk and opaque decision-making. What I like most about our group is that we’re large enough to put relatively small amounts into many deals, which lets us spread risk while still investing in higher-quality assets. It’s a practical middle ground between owning solo and full syndications, but I think past bad experiences and a lack of simple education around these structures keep more people from considering it.

    • Member since 2024 · 11 posts · 0 votes
      9mo

      @G. Brian Davis Hi Brian. Are you guys open to adding any members to your group? I'd be very interested in joining, have come across some great deals, and would love to chat.

    • G. Brian DavisPro Member
      Investor · Hatboro, PA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 866 votes
      9mo
      Quote from @Jake E.:

      @G. Brian Davis Hi Brian. Are you guys open to adding any members to your group? I'd be very interested in joining, have come across some great deals, and would love to chat.

      Hi Jake yes, feel free to message me
  • Huntsville, AL · Member since 2018 · 578 posts · 864 votes
    9mo

    @Stuart Udis - I can answer your question with one word.  Trust.  

    I've done this model since 2017 - started my first real estate LLC as a 50/50 partnership with another individual (non-family) I've known and done business with for over a decade. The venture has been sucessful, and our LLC remains intact and strong to this day; my partner in this LLC wanted to stop growing, so we kept this LLC intact, and I have started other LLCs with other business partners since then. Each LLC has it's own unique focus that does not conflict with the others, so it's worked out very well for me long term.

    But to go back to your question - it's trust. You have to be 100% transparent with the finances, motives, plans, and clearly define roles. This is where the majority of JV / partnerships fail.

    Example from today - I got a call from one of our property managers about a plumbing issue at a rental - I authorized the repair based on the quote on the spot.  Did I call my partner about it?  Nope.  He trusts me to do the right thing.  If the roles were reversed today, I wouldn't question his decision in the matter either.  Do we agree on everything?  Of course not - but we will have open dialogue about it and come to a resolution.

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9mo
    Quote from @Stuart Udis:

    I observe a lot of discussion here about investing in distant markets because the real estate is cheaper and appears to produce stronger cash flow. That approach has clearly become mainstream. What I struggle with is that much of this lower-cost housing has weak fundamentals and very little margin for error. When investors rely entirely on third-party property management and vendors, those properties can rarely comfortably absorb normal operating expenses, capital expenditures, vacancy, and other costs associated with real estate ownership.

    I understand that some people live in markets where local investing simply doesn’t work. But if investors are already willing to invest out of state, why isn’t there more discussion around forming small capital-only JVs with one or a few other investors to buy higher-quality assets instead? I’m not talking about partnerships where one person “does the work” and the other supplies the down payment capital and/or financing. I mean situations where each member has capital, credit, and financing ability on their own, but together they become a stronger guarantor and buyer in the eyes of a lender and can qualify for better real estate. You’d still use third-party management and vendors, but the underlying asset can absorb those costs more effectively.

    There’s a large middle ground between solo ownership and full-blown syndications that rarely gets discussed. What holds investors back from this approach? Is it control concerns, partnership risk, legal complexity, or simply that most education is framed around owning alone or syndicating a 50+ unit apartment building? Genuinely interested in hearing why this model isn’t considered more often because the simplest partnership arrangements are capital partnerships where most if not all duties are delegated to 3rd parties which is exactly what I am referring to.

    Look around.

    Out of 100 people on this board, how many would you be willing to sign on the dotted line with to enter into a partnership with? Is it safe to say it's under 10, probably 5? 

    ****, you wouldn't even do the thing you're suggesting then.

    America is the ultimate opportunity of self-service & that directly correlates with mistrust. Beyond that, we all have completely different timelines that creates a liquidity issue when it matters. If someone's getting married, if someone's divorcing, etc.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9mo
    Quote from @Stuart Udis:

    I observe a lot of discussion here about investing in distant markets because the real estate is cheaper and appears to produce stronger cash flow. That approach has clearly become mainstream. What I struggle with is that much of this lower-cost housing has weak fundamentals and very little margin for error. When investors rely entirely on third-party property management and vendors, those properties can rarely comfortably absorb normal operating expenses, capital expenditures, vacancy, and other costs associated with real estate ownership.

    I understand that some people live in markets where local investing simply doesn’t work. But if investors are already willing to invest out of state, why isn’t there more discussion around forming small capital-only JVs with one or a few other investors to buy higher-quality assets instead? I’m not talking about partnerships where one person “does the work” and the other supplies the down payment capital and/or financing. I mean situations where each member has capital, credit, and financing ability on their own, but together they become a stronger guarantor and buyer in the eyes of a lender and can qualify for better real estate. You’d still use third-party management and vendors, but the underlying asset can absorb those costs more effectively.

    There’s a large middle ground between solo ownership and full-blown syndications that rarely gets discussed. What holds investors back from this approach? Is it control concerns, partnership risk, legal complexity, or simply that most education is framed around owning alone or syndicating a 50+ unit apartment building? Genuinely interested in hearing why this model isn’t considered more often because the simplest partnership arrangements are capital partnerships where most if not all duties are delegated to 3rd parties which is exactly what I am referring to.

    It’s one thing to let an experienced, vetted, professional as general partner “vote” on my money; it quite another to let a majority of biased, passive investor, unqualified amateurs vote on my money.  
    Further, the chance of everyone in this type of deal exiting HAPPY is close to 0.
    But, interesting idea.  However, it fits a small syndication model.  Need to have experienced, educated professional in charge.  
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9mo

    It's a great idea, but people who have been in the game for a while know it depends on people. Me personally, I don't trust most human beings. Others are more trusting than me, but in addition, this is all contingent on everybody having the capability, desires, and aptitude to make it all work. So many moving parts mixed in with so many approaches, perceptions, assumptions and expectations. It's cool for partners that already have successfully worked together on other stuff, or maybe family, but I have been around so many groups in the industry.  I've seen much lower-level projects easily crash and burn. Dysfunction, incompetence, dishonesty, stupidity and many other things. This has just been my experience. I wish I did have a collective group I feel this would work for. In most of my stuff, I have to take over any way. I've had to fire many property managers and do it myself. I've had to fire GCs, to go out and run my own teams. Most likely, the high-end people who are capable, really don't need others to make it happen and probably have seen some of the stuff I mentioned. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2025 · 85 posts · 35 votes
    9mo

    I'd suggest acquiring a short-term rental either all by yourself (with financing if needed) or bringing an LP (passive investing partner). This way you leverage benefits of the STR loophole, which in my opinion is the biggest income stream in today's Real Estate.

  • Rene HosmanPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2024 · 583 posts · 653 votes
    9mo
    Quote from @Stuart Udis:

    I observe a lot of discussion here about investing in distant markets because the real estate is cheaper and appears to produce stronger cash flow. That approach has clearly become mainstream. What I struggle with is that much of this lower-cost housing has weak fundamentals and very little margin for error. When investors rely entirely on third-party property management and vendors, those properties can rarely comfortably absorb normal operating expenses, capital expenditures, vacancy, and other costs associated with real estate ownership.

    I understand that some people live in markets where local investing simply doesn’t work. But if investors are already willing to invest out of state, why isn’t there more discussion around forming small capital-only JVs with one or a few other investors to buy higher-quality assets instead? I’m not talking about partnerships where one person “does the work” and the other supplies the down payment capital and/or financing. I mean situations where each member has capital, credit, and financing ability on their own, but together they become a stronger guarantor and buyer in the eyes of a lender and can qualify for better real estate. You’d still use third-party management and vendors, but the underlying asset can absorb those costs more effectively.

    There’s a large middle ground between solo ownership and full-blown syndications that rarely gets discussed. What holds investors back from this approach? Is it control concerns, partnership risk, legal complexity, or simply that most education is framed around owning alone or syndicating a 50+ unit apartment building? Genuinely interested in hearing why this model isn’t considered more often because the simplest partnership arrangements are capital partnerships where most if not all duties are delegated to 3rd parties which is exactly what I am referring to.

     I personally wonder if more people are doing this co-investing than is talked about, of course there are always the loud "OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY" people who too often seem to promote risky and scammy tactics. But based on the investors I speak with, I'd say at least 40% if not half of them have partnered with someone in SOME way, usually a close friend or family member who is putting up part or all of the down payment, or funding a renovation, etc. 

    I'd say it's better to get a great asset and share it than own 100% of a bad deal!

    I also agree though with the sentiment that it doesn't seem like people talk about this co-investing... 

    Maybe because some people who don't have the capital are embarrassed to admit they needed a capital partner for a deal?

    Or maybe because like other responders have mentioned, there's always a chance the deal goes badly and if you do 10 deals, 9 go well, and 1 goes poorly, I think it's human nature to focus on and worry about the 1 bad deal. 

    Unsure the reason why but I do think it's a good point to bring up and normalize deal partnerships that are structured as a win-win and allow everyone involved to use their personal strengths and what resources are available to them. 

    You can either give time, money, or expertise to a project to be a beneficial partner. The problem I see is newer folks who have been told by social media that they can rely on everyone else for everything and want "partners" when they themselves have none of those three resources and just want a free ride. 

    BiggerPockets
  • Investor · FL · Member since 2025 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    9mo

    I purchased a rental duplex with a friend a few years ago. It’s worked out well. I believe it’s worth noting we have known each other since we were college classmates and the duplex we purchased is in our former college town very similar to a building we lived in as college students 13 years ago. Trust is important and we are both very hands off since it’s a plane flight away. Ironically the same management company that managed rentals we lived in is now managing the building for us. It hasn’t been perfect but they are professional and feel they have our best interests in mind. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 826 posts · 810 votes
    9mo

    Partnership risk is the biggest hurdle IMO. I have basically operated your model for the past 10 years with a number of partners. I always maintain the majority equity stake, underwrite the asset and operate the venture. 

    Most of the ventures remain, but everyone has changing priorities over time. I've bought out some partners, and others we haven't grown the venture past 1 property. The partnerships work because I prioritize venture success over my personal gain, but I wouldn't trust others to do the same.

    i expect most partnerships will run its course over time, so the most important thing to do is sort out the exit clauses.

    However, I prefer partnerships over solo ventures because of the well-being aspect. I always say that the properties that I fully own are 2-3x more stressful than the ones that I co-own... even if I'm the primary operator for both scenarios. There's some subconscious relief I have when I have a shared-issue vs knowing I bear the full burden. 

    I don't have any stats, but I suspect solo landlords get burned out at a higher rate than ones who partner. 

    lastly, I'll say that partnerships are good to cost average into markets. I'd like to buy 1 property a year, but that's not feasible in my market unless I bring on a partner. 

  • Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    8mo

    I think the idea makes sense, but the friction isn’t the asset, as it’s the partnership.

    Small capital-only JVs fall into a gray zone where control, decision-making, and exit timing matter a lot more than people expect. Solo ownership and syndications have clear lanes; these don’t unless the docs and expectations are very tight.

    When I’ve seen it work, alignment on control and exit was more important than the deal itself. When it fails, it’s usually those assumptions that break first.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 466 posts · 257 votes
    8mo

    Hi Stuart from Philadelphia-

    Great Question! You asked if investors are looking to invest out-of-state in more affordable markets why not pool their capital together and buy better assets?

    First, the question implies that pooling money together always equals a better asset or return on investment. While looking at deals to put your capital into with other investors is a part of the investor's journey it is not right for everyone and you have more counterparty risk with partners. 

    I certainly am seeing a greater interest in both sponsoring bigger deals and partnering with capital for these deals in the Michigan market.

    However, for most investors, building wealth in markets that cashflow, like much of Michigan, and have value-add potential with direct investment and ownership is a proven path to wealth with less counterparty risk.

    To Your Success!

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