Why Are there So many Real Estate Mentors amd Teachers?

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Reminds me of the oil and gold rushes of the past. The people who got REALLY rich weren't the people digging for oil and gold - it was the people who developed tools essential to making the process more effiicient.

3 Reply

Royce Talbo

Investor · Kaneohe, HI · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 104 votes

11y

Part of it is because they do want to teach people, but they also make some profit from doing seminars, writing books and making a profit from that, and doing pod casts to make a name for themselves. Their name is a brand and that's one way of making money. They tell you all the things that beginners don't know, but never the real nitty gritty details or tricks they learn along the way, that they keep to themselves.

The other reason is that people who are learning are beginners and pose no real threat to them as they are only entering the market with limited funds that will just get a few properties. This will actually help them as these people entering the market will improve the property and force appreciation, in turn it will raise the property value of the properties in the area, thus increasing the value of other investors properties that they currently hold.

0 Reply

Arlan Potter

Investor/Accountant/Builder · Meno, OK · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 918 votes

11y

Jessica,

My nephew, that I has wanted to start investing for years, just bought a rental in Danville.(I may have already mentioned it to you).

Over the last ten years I have told hundreds of people what and how I do what I do. I would like to say that I have created a bunch of competition for myself, but not so much has happened. Most listen and they just don't get it. They are too concerned with making a living, I guess.

I even have expanded our local Landlord Assoc. Into a REI association. Every month I have guest speakers and then I talk for 30-40 minutes about REI. Free info.

I have been investing for 11 years and am more pumped up about it today than ever. I, like most investors, like to talk about real estate investing. I don't think I will create much competition for myself, but if I do, good for them.

I know an older gentlemen in our town, and he started buying during the crash of the 80's. He has hundreds of SFRS. Every time we get together, we have great conversations about owning houses and what a great wealth building tool it is.

I imagine the only competition to worry about is the Chinese, there are a billion of them,

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Joseph Ball

Residential Real Estate Agent · Groveland, FL · Member since 2012 · 504 posts · 395 votes

11y

Jessica, you are so right. I have a very successful business. How much money would I accept to cut my business in half, or by any percentage? I don't think I would do it for $100,000.

I read about these people paying big bucks for "GURU, "Mentoring", and I shudder.

I'm going to give you a big VOTE for sanity. Yes Jessica, the Emperor has no clothes.

1 Reply

Account Closed

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Arlan Potter:

Jessica,

My nephew, that I has wanted to start investing for years, just bought a rental in Danville.(I may have already mentioned it to you).

Over the last ten years I have told hundreds of people what and how I do what I do. I would like to say that I have created a bunch of competition for myself, but not so much has happened. Most listen and they just don't get it. They are too concerned with making a living, I guess.

I even have expanded our local Landlord Assoc. Into a REI association. Every month I have guest speakers and then I talk for 30-40 minutes about REI. Free info.

I have been investing for 11 years and am more pumped up about it today than ever. I, like most investors, like to talk about real estate investing. I don't think I will create much competition for myself, but if I do, good for them.

I know an older gentlemen in our town, and he started buying during the crash of the 80's. He has hundreds of SFRS. Every time we get together, we have great conversations about owning houses and what a great wealth building tool it is.

I imagine the only competition to worry about is the Chinese, there are a billion of them,

Thank you for your response, that is so interesting that your nephew is investing here! What does he think of this market? Honestly I have been cautious about investing here because Danville is shrinking instead of growing, and the town has never quite been the same since the textile factories shut down. I totally understand what you are saying but I still don't quite get why people share so much info, I mean yes there may not be any noticeable changes tomorrow since real estate is a longterm game, but what about in the future? Especially with the advancement of technology and the increased integration of putsourcing and automation into real estate, which will make it easier than ever for new investors I'd imagine. Even funding will be easier to obtain in the near future thanks to crowdfunding platforms, and an increase of syndication training programs.

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Account Closed

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Royce Talbo:

Part of it is because they do want to teach people, but they also make some profit from doing seminars, writing books and making a profit from that, and doing pod casts to make a name for themselves. Their name is a brand and that's one way of making money. They tell you all the things that beginners don't know, but never the real nitty gritty details or tricks they learn along the way, that they keep to themselves.

The other reason is that people who are learning are beginners and pose no real threat to them as they are only entering the market with limited funds that will just get a few properties. This will actually help them as these people entering the market will improve the property and force appreciation, in turn it will raise the property value of the properties in the area, thus increasing the value of other investors properties that they currently hold.

Thanks for the response, I know they are making short term money by teaching others, but couldn't they make more with less competition? However, the appreciation part makes sense, as the more buyers there are, the more property values go up. Still, it seems that in the long run it would hurt more then hellp, for the reasons I have discussed above.

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Account Closed

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Joseph Ball:

Jessica, you are so right. I have a very successful business. How much money would I accept to cut my business in half, or by any percentage? I don't think I would do it for $100,000.

I read about these people paying big bucks for "GURU, "Mentoring", and I shudder.

I'm going to give you a big VOTE for sanity. Yes Jessica, the Emperor has no clothes.

Thank you, I'm glad someone understands where I'm coming from... Lol

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Guy M.

Flipper/Rehabber · Williamsburg, VA · Member since 2008 · 143 posts · 105 votes

11y

I don't blame you.

Those RE books help BUT they all have the tendency to say the same thing and very few give you the down and dirty details. Anybody could write a book right now without having done ONE deal. They just read a bunch of the info in these books and put a different twist on it.

On the flip-side...

Some investors simply like to share their experiences. I love sharing mine, I know that for a fact. About the "limited supply" of land and real estate, there is an endless supply of circumstances. People buy and sell everyday and will continue to do so. Do you realize that the very land your foot is on has been bought and sold thousands of times for various reasons?

This forum is to strengthen our investor knowledge. Nobody knows everything, but somebody knows something. Someone can learn from me and I can learn from them... for free! You'd be a fool to think this sharing of info is all for naught.

3 Reply

Tom Lane

Real Estate Investor · Milledgeville, IL · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 24 votes

11y

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, teach...

Sorry, if I offended anyone, I'm just quoting my gramma.

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Account Closed

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Tom Lane:

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, teach...

Sorry, if I offended anyone, I'm just quoting my gramma.

Sorry, but I disagree. Some of the books I've read have been written by some of the richest people of the modern world ( and no, I'm not just talking about The Art of the Deal... Lol)

1 Reply

Brandon Hall

CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

@Account Closed

The information is out there for a variety of reasons.

Why share insights with your competition? Well, if they are paying you for it, why not. Keep your enemies close, and you will always be ahead of them. For instance, you can train someone and then sell them your assets or ideas, then use their money to take yourself to the next level, then sell them information at the next level. Why wouldn't you want to do that? Maybe they will catch up, but that's unlikely. People are eager to spend money to learn how to do something yet very few ever act on it.

Real estate investing also encompass a broad range of services and activities. You have buy-and-hold, flips, wholesale, wholetail, notes, liens, property management, tax, 1031s, etc. etc. Because there are so many sub-industries, sharing general knowledge will not likely threaten one's livelihood. For instance, someone can share information on how they successfully flipped a house, but what they may not share are all of the business systems that are working behind the scenes. Those business systems took years to set up and learn how to operate efficiently. And even if someone did share EXACTLY how to set up a business, it will still be difficult to replicate because that person likely has years of experience under their belt. So in the end, you are buying their products and they are never really worried that you will be able to compete with them.

What's in in for BP? The real estate industry is still full of arbitrage opportunities because data isn't readily available and comparable. Due to this, home buyers/sellers act with caution and some still end up getting ripped off. This causes a market for information, and people like FREE information. That's where BP comes in and the platform is quite valuable since it drives so much traffic. Josh recognized early on that there was a need for relevant information and he created a way for users to share information. BP enhances the real estate investing experience my making information and data available, and Josh gets paid. That's why BP is here.

Why are people so helpful? Why are people posting free information? If people are posting free information and being helpful, they are likely expecting to receive some sort of benefit on the back end. That doesn't necessarily mean their intent is malicious (like a guru). Very few people are helping others out of the goodness of their hearts (though there are those that do!). Some people want to network, some want partners, some want to sell.

I personally want to establish credibility in the real estate investing space so that when I launch an accounting firm, people will see me as a trusted advisor and in turn consider becoming a client of mine. I attempt to establish credibility by making my posts as valuable and as helpful as possible for the reader/target market. I honestly do want to help others. That's what motivates me and drives me. Do I expect to charge a fee for my services? Absolutely, because my services will be the best out there. And in order to demonstrate this to the community, I take the approach of sharing my insights and information I gather freely for everyone to view and consume.

4 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

11y

there is huge money in the education of RE business... the top educators or guru's if you will make far more money than 99% of those in the business.

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Royce Talbo

Investor · Kaneohe, HI · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 104 votes

11y

@Account Closed like I said the beginners don't buy up much property just a few here and there. Most take years to get their first property, some never get started. Again they also teach old techniques that are widely know, but not to beginners. they also teach some techniques that don't even work anymore, but beginners don't know that. They sell you on the idea of getting rich by throwing numbers at you, but never take you step by step through each process and the different ways things could end up. Some don't even own property and just write books on theory and what they researched and read on the internet, they organize it and regurgitate it to the beginners. There are many who do lots of deals and make millions and never share. then there are those who share and get rich by just sharing by regurgitating with no actual history. then there are those who made their money and really want to help others.
as for couldnt they make more with less competition, yes for those who are actually investors could and some of those are the people who make millions and dont share, but their is so much inventory out there that people dont realize. they are only focusing on their local market, while these so called gurus are giving you guideline thats works in most markets.

hope this helps clear things up a bit. I use to think like you when I first started out, but I come to realize that there are always deals to be found and new ways to make money as the old ways fade away. on a side note the generation now known as the peter pan generation would rather rent and have no responsibilities than grow up and buy a home, so this leaves less competition for buying.

1 Reply

Tim Bishop

Real Estate Agent · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2014 · 187 posts · 113 votes

11y

@Account Closed

I think you're looking at it from a scarcity mentality. There's only so much out there and if there is a winner there's got to be a loser etc...

The reality is that there are plenty of opportunities for those who work hard. If one deal is gone there will be another one behind it. If one strategy gets too competitive there will be one that's not so saturated. There are definitely some making money off of the training vs actual investing but thats not isolated to this industry.

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Account Closed

OP

Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 23 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Brandon Hall:

@Account Closed

The information is out there for a variety of reasons.

Why share insights with your competition? Well, if they are paying you for it, why not. Keep your enemies close, and you will always be ahead of them. For instance, you can train someone and then sell them your assets or ideas, then use their money to take yourself to the next level, then sell them information at the next level. Why wouldn't you want to do that? Maybe they will catch up, but that's unlikely. People are eager to spend money to learn how to do something yet very few ever act on it.

Real estate investing also encompass a broad range of services and activities. You have buy-and-hold, flips, wholesale, wholetail, notes, liens, property management, tax, 1031s, etc. etc. Because there are so many sub-industries, sharing general knowledge will not likely threaten one's livelihood. For instance, someone can share information on how they successfully flipped a house, but what they may not share are all of the business systems that are working behind the scenes. Those business systems took years to set up and learn how to operate efficiently. And even if someone did share EXACTLY how to set up a business, it will still be difficult to replicate because that person likely has years of experience under their belt. So in the end, you are buying their products and they are never really worried that you will be able to compete with them.

What's in in for BP? The real estate industry is still full of arbitrage opportunities because data isn't readily available and comparable. Due to this, home buyers/sellers act with caution and some still end up getting ripped off. This causes a market for information, and people like FREE information. That's where BP comes in and the platform is quite valuable since it drives so much traffic. Josh recognized early on that there was a need for relevant information and he created a way for users to share information. BP enhances the real estate investing experience my making information and data available, and Josh gets paid. That's why BP is here.

Why are people so helpful? Why are people posting free information? If people are posting free information and being helpful, they are likely expecting to receive some sort of benefit on the back end. That doesn't necessarily mean their intent is malicious (like a guru). Very few people are helping others out of the goodness of their hearts (though there are those that do!). Some people want to network, some want partners, some want to sell.

I personally want to establish credibility in the real estate investing space so that when I launch an accounting firm, people will see me as a trusted advisor and in turn consider becoming a client of mine. I attempt to establish credibility by making my posts as valuable and as helpful as possible for the reader/target market. I honestly do want to help others. That's what motivates me and drives me. Do I expect to charge a fee for my services? Absolutely, because my services will be the best out there. And in order to demonstrate this to the community, I take the approach of sharing my insights and information I gather freely for everyone to view and consume.

Thanks for such a comprehensive and well-organized post. You bring up some good points but after looking at your BP profile and your LinkedIn page ( very impressive btw, we're two years apart in age), it sounds as though you're in a unique position as you provide a service that is absolutely essential to every serious. Real estate investor, has a much higher barrier to entry credntial-wise, and probably doesn't have as much competition as general real estate investing I assume. So by assisting other people and encouraging them to invest, you're increasing the demand for your services, one that most people can't provide, instead of telling everyone how to become an accountant and do exactly what you're doing, which isn't the same imo.

0 Reply

Brandon Hall

CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

@Account Closed Hey thanks for the kind words. To be clear, I do not actively encourage people on BP to invest for two reasons: there are others with much more valuable information to share regarding general real estate investing; and I don't want to have the image of driving people to invest to drive my business. I do however, however, share accounting and finance insights when applicable.

In my previous post, I wanted to speak to your question as to why so much free information is out there, and I wanted to show you how and why I contribute to that information. While you are right, my area is much more niche, there are many niche areas in REI.

To be honest, plenty of people can provide tax/advisory services without ever needing to have a CPA. I don't worry about those people because I know I have the drive to make my services better. In the end, I know I can execute better than anyone I share information with. I feel like that thought process can be applied to many areas of REI, regardless of how niche the service or activity.

It all comes down to execution, and very, very few people have to drive or means to execute.

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Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Never have I ever seen any other industry so ready and willing to give out so much information about how to profit from real estate to potential/ future competitors. I find it interesting and even a bit suspicious. There are THOUSANDS of books on how to invest in real estate and start your own business. There are tons and tons of podcasts. There are a myriad of guru training courses. There are scores of free websites , articles, and forums like BP that give away a wealth of information. Why? It seems that with this, coupled with extremely low barrier to entry and a limited supply of land and real estate properties ( especially commercial, such as apartments), and the expansion of major national/global brands who have billions of capital at their disposal, would be a recipe for oversaturation and major competition. Why would investors be so eager to share advice and tips? Isn't that shooting ones'self in the foot? I know real estate is supposedly local ( although I feel that bug institutions beg to differ), wouldn't that be an even greater imcentive to dominate your market instead of telling your competition exactly how you did it? What do these people get out of sharing their secrets and trainiing their future competition? How will real estate continue to remain lucrative if so many people now have access to this information? I recently read a book that talked about fortune building, and history has shown that emerging big players, along with more an d more competitors entering a market, leads to shrinking profit margins and impedes growth. Why do people seem to think Real Estate is immune to this? I'm not trying to start anything I just want to know the reasoning behind this phenomenon. Oh, and please no b.s. answers like, "Sharing is caring!!". I'm not convinced that everyone is just doing this out of the kindness of their hearts when business and money are involved ( although I know that se do).

No offense, really, but RE has a very low threshold for people to get involved, you could be a certifiable idiot, a drug dealer, a felon or just an everyday cheating jerk, there is no license.

Second, a lot of money can be at steak, $5,000 is a lot of money to many people and I wouldn't even give 5K away to just anyone!

No competition, not to me or not with others really, it's not like setting up hamburger stands along the same street. Ask the right question, there isn't much I won't tell.

Sharing and caring.....I might say.....naïve. Very few here have no agenda at all and simply give advice without expectations, you'll find that in all businesses, Some are really good at staying under the radar, you'll need to figure that out, some are pretty plain about it. You'll see in my profile, I don't partner with anyone off the internet or conduct business with them...for the most part, I don't seek business relationships. I might, some day get a book out, but it's not for me to get rich from, LOL, I also don't flaunt my financial side, but I won't need a book to eat or buy gas for a 50' Sundancer (that's a big boat).

Why are there so many mentors, coaches and gurus? Because a sucker is born every minute and there are millions of them! It's an area where a rip off artist can do very well in an unregulated area of business, anyone can be a guru, if you let them.

Pretty much why I tell people to go learn the basics instead of getting caught up in some forum zoo, blog, podcast, coloring book, paint by numbers set or system, go learn the reality of real estate first, then jump in with all the clowns in the car, see the tactics, if you like some strategy then learn that and go invest or make some money. I never met anyone who went to school in this country and started out in high school, most begin in elementary school.... I did! :)

1 Reply

Patrick Britton

Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 997 votes

11y

those who can't do, teach. period.

but a little helpful advice here and there is good karma. and sometimes the free advice you get at your local REIA and especially here, is worth much, much more than any guru, bootcamp, training course, whatever. you pay those people to tell you stuff you can learn here...but they also make you feel good. and that's what you're paying for. you are paying to be ENTERTAINED and to feel good about yourself.

0 Reply

Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

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Dooreuhn Cee

Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 229 posts · 171 votes

11y

Real estate education has high cash flow because of a lot of the reasons you mentioned.

Also, failure is fantastic teacher in RE, so there are many that do not have but still have valuable how tos.

1 Reply

Michael W.

Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2013 · 54 posts · 8 votes

11y

The real estate business is not a static market, it is an ever expanding, dynamic market. It is not that most are thought of as competitors, but they are like the hobos of old, they share with fellow travelers where food may be found.

Sharing is one of most powerful sources of personal satisfaction.

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Brie SchmidtBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

11y

Why is there so many books / gurus / information selling real estate investing? I feel it is because real estate investing is the one thing that anyone can do. I had a career in corporate sales and not everyone can do that. My brother is a research engineer, not everyone can do that. My sister in law is a kindergarden teacher, not everyone can do that. But anyone with the right motivation can do REI. We all have different backgrounds and skill sets, but I cannot think of a single person in my life that could not do REI if they wanted to.
Why do investors share ideas, strategies, tools with others? Successful people want to surround themselves with successful people to elevate themselves. I have dinner monthly with three other investors who are more successful than myself. We all live in the same city and invest in the same general area but we each have our own niche and strategy. Not once have we competed over a property, in fact we would like to work together but nobody wants to leave their own niche to work in another. When an opportunity comes across my desk and it is not in my niche I always pass it to one of them if it is in theirs, and they will do the same with me. There is enough business for all of us and if I closed myself off and did not share my ideas or strategies with them, I would have missed out on their ideas and strategies which I have applied in my own business, which has greatly helped me.
What about local competition? It is not all sunshine and rainbows. There are defiantly people that will be snarky if they see you as competition. There is a local BP member who I do compete with directly for property. We have spoken with each other and are respectful of each other, but we are both very cautious of sharing too much. We never share property information or contacts that provide us inventory, but we will share contacts within banking / insurance or things outside of the actual property. He came across a large off market portfolio that was too big to buy himself so he offered me the "leftovers" which is generous, but that is about the extent of us working together. Regardless I do not feel that I cannot operate in my market because he is there too.

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Mark Vejnar

Investor · Simpsonville, SC · Member since 2013 · 184 posts · 71 votes

11y

While hucksters abound, I think the practice has more to do with impact and significance. There is a sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from being able to tap into your own knowledge and experience when someone else needs help. And whether you give that help in the public arena, in full view of others, or quietly over coffee, the legacy created in those moments goes beyond wealth. Warren Buffett's legacy will not be the wealth he has created for shareholders. It will be the knowledge and expertise shared in his letters to shareholders - much as Ben Graham left The Intelligent Investor and Security Analysis (both of which, directly or indirectly, have influenced everyone in the world if real estate). I think this is why there are so many in real estate willing to share despite the scarcity mindset of others.

1 Reply

Eric TaitPro Member

Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 314 posts · 146 votes

11y

Research the "Law of Compensation" as was alluded to earlier, I personally divide the world into two camps of people.

Those with a scarcity mentality or those with an abundance mentality. Not to get super metaphysical on you, but either you believe that we live in a zero sum world where me making a dollar takes a dollar out of your pocket, or you believe that through human ingenuity and cooperation the pie continuously gets larger (sorry to mix metaphors).

I am a firm believer that if you put enough good energy into the world it will come back to you multiplied and I am big believer in what Zig Ziglar says "you can have everything in life you want if you help enough other people get what they want".

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Lumi Ispas

Real Estate Consultant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 720 posts · 439 votes

11y

@Jessica W. I can't say that I know why others teach and help others, however I will give you my reasons. I will give you a bit of info about me so you understand how much other's help and advise has helped me in life.

I came int he States about 15 years ago with limited knowledge of the language (hence my spelling), from a formerly communist country in Easter Europe, meaning that we had no credit card system, credit scores, no Real Estate industry per say, as most of homes stayed in the family for generation. So I had to learn the language and figure out things for myself. I am a huge reader so very fast I found out that 90% of the millionaires in this country were made of Real Estate. I always loved arts, so architecture was a passion of mine, and immediately got drawn into the infomercials late at night of the "No money down programs. "

I started reading everything I got my hands on and start asking questions on everyone that listened to me and had some experience with Real Estate: contractors, RE attorneys, CPAs, Realtors, Investors, etc . Due to the help of others and the books I read, now I am a Real Estate Broker in Chicago and after years of learning and working in 2013 I was named by Chicago Association of Realtors in top 1% or Realtors in the City of Chicago based on the number of sales I do per year.

In the same time I am the biggest recruiter in my office and I am mentoring the most agents in my office. If I would have thought that I create competition for myself, then I will have not brought anyone on board, neither teach them the business that took me so long to learn and spent probably by now over $100,000 investment in seminars, books and real Estate courses.

As an investor, I own a handful of properties for cash flow, I do flips and I am ready to start building. In the same time, I will call my clients and friends investors and give them lots of great deals, as I can't buy all the deals on the market. There is a saying that "The deal of the Century is on the market every day. All you have to do is go find it".

The market is a large pool of houses and people. It will be impossible for me to buy all the houses, to sell all the houses or to flip all the houses in the market even if I wanted to.

My mentees are sending my way great deals that they can't buy or that they are looking to wholesale, and I learn or remind myself how to do things just by teaching them. There is no better way for me to grow into my business than teaching someone else. Some days they make my days just through their heartfelt thanks. I don't train them to get back. I get back because I train them.

The book that is the most published in the world is the Bible. So even if you are not a believer, if you read it to become wiser you'll find the following passage:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

The second most published book is "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. One of the chapters is "Power of the Mastermind". Read this book, there is a reason is the most published book after the Bible.

Everything I've learned and I have in my life I owe to others.

I start all my training of Real Estate brokers or investors with teaching them about Mindset, because Mindset is 95% of what you need in life and your endeavors.

Unfortunately very few people understand that skill is only 5%. If you believe that you can earn money in this Industry or any industry, you will find a way and not question the motivation of others. Everyone's motivation is different.

Learn, study, attempt, take risks and when the opportunity arises - give back with no expectations and life will greatly reward you with money and great friendships!

Good luck to you, and do reach to me if I can help you with anything!

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Why Are there So many Real Estate Mentors amd Teachers?

Why Are there So many Real Estate Mentors amd Teachers?

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