Stop Asking for Help. Just Stop.
Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
Stop Asking for Help. Just Stop.
Most Popular Reply
Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
9yWith all due respect, David, in this day and age there is nothing secret anymore. If I was so motivated I could determine what you ate for breakfast this morning. A motivated person can locate every deal you have made. When you post on a forum such as this you open yourself up for questions. Unfortunately forums are often just a venue for bragging and self promotion instead of an area for cultivating friendships and helping others. If privacy is such a big concern for you then just refrain from posting.
175 Replies
- Real Estate Marketing Professional · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 299 posts · 125 votes9y
In @David Zheng's defense, I understand what he's saying...when you get a curt "where do you buy your places" in a PM, you're like, "Um, how about a 'hello' first?" Some people seriously lack decent networking skills. Personally, it bugs me when I see posts that simply say, "Hey, I'm a newbie, got any advice?" I want to respond, "Why don't you read this entire website FIRST, and then ask a more specific question?!" Argh. But you'll always have that, everywhere in life. Something tells me that if someone approached David with decent communication skills and some research done beforehand and a desire to make a working relationship, he'd consider helping out to pay it forward....
- Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes9y
@Kim Younkin You hit it right on the nail! thank you for getting it.
Especially in my generation, we are too entitled and think that we should be spoonfed or have our hands held through every step of the way. Dependence is a word I hate and unless people have a warning sign shoved in their face, they will always "expect" rather than "find". - Real Estate Marketing Professional · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 299 posts · 125 votes9y
You're welcome, @David Zheng!
- Business Owner · Madison, WI · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 59 votes9yI wouldn't help my competition either, everyone wants to play this happy go lucky role on here but in reality it's all about a (Legal) dollar. If the same people offered him 10K to ask questions i don't believe he'd be mad.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
For what it's worth...
In regard to relationship building, a mentor of mine once taught me, "Refuse to be offended". That is, no matter how poorly the other person handles their end of the conversation, maintain your composure and demeanor and frame your response as well as you can.
Your response to Alan Grobmeier re: business models was nearly perfect. True, he approached you in the way that you respect.
The inquiries you find irritating likely assume, "Hey - we're in the same business, speak the same language ... we're colleagues!" They may ***-u-me that the relationship you seek is implied in that way and they can "cut straight to the info" rather than take time with the pleasantries needed to build that relationship.
Take those "irritating" inquiries and reframe them: pretend the inquiry used the expected approach and give that type of response. The other person will likely pick up on that, adjust their position and make further inquiries in a more considerate tone. They may even break long enough to say, "By the way, I'm David. Great to meet you!" or something similar. No guarantees, of course. People are what they are. They don't want to waste your time or their own.
You can try to change the world or you can change the way you respond to it. It's up to you.
My $0.02 ...
- Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes9y
Originally posted by @David Moore:
It is super easy. It would be done in a person's profile. Number of investment properties you currently - x. Number of properties you have flipped - x. Number of xyz - ?.
You then choose a filter on your profile. Only accept inbox questions from a person who says in their profile they have met a condition you put in your filter. You can choose, then to accept any and all questions...no problem. Or, you can choose a filter...only question from someone who owns at least one rental, or done at least one flip....etc.
It is simple functionality.
Doesn't this defy the who purpose of the site and potentially discourages honesty in profiles? Suddenly, people may be discouraged in stating absolute truth just to be able to reach to a broader network.
- Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 33 posts · 10 votes9y
There is plenty to go around. And if ne has bad intentions a lot of time people think they can do and have what others have without working or getting the knowledge for it and then they buy something like a property to try the get rich quick ordeal and then they find themselves upside down and people like us come in and get a great deal off there ignorant and greedy choice the made. At the same time it might be someone who has done their work and might want to partner with you that has a lot to offer you will never know until you go more in detail with the person that messaged you and you screen them. There are newbies out there that are willing to put their heart and soul into making something happen buy helping in what way they can you just like I said have to screen them. Best of luck my friend.
- Investor · Gaithersburg, MD · Member since 2013 · 659 posts · 441 votes9y
I can certainly see your frustration David, but I'm all about building relationships. I just simply don't take the attitude of "What can do you do for me if I help you". I always try and put more into a relationship than I expect out of it. When you do that, good things usually come out of those relationships. Having people reaching out is simply just a result of your success in real estate and people wanting to learn from you. I certainly don't have the time either to "mentor" everyone who asks me a question, but I try and respond (sometimes it takes me a while if I'm busy elsewhere) to whatever I get.
The point is, you never know the details behind who is asking for help. If I took that attitude, I never would have met a couple of key people who have been instrumental in my own success in real estate. With that being said, there are some people who are just looking to mooch and want specific information that I'm just not willing to give. I try and nicely point them in the direction where they can get more information. I do believe researching specific areas, etc can be done without a bunch of conversations. Google, and other posts on BP are great places for that, but if people truly have an interest in learning more about how I am successful, I always try and make time for that. I will always try and guide people in the right direction and share my experiences.
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes9y
@David Dachtera I think you missed my point. I think you could tell ppl EVERYTHING you do and the receipient would either:
1) Not believe you
2) Shoot holes in your model
3) Be unable to duplicate it
Since I am a long term buy & hold guy, there are probably 250,000 houses in my area that fit my model. I don't have to have all of them. ;-)
I can see, however, in the 'fix & flip' or wholesale realm where things would be different.
- Rental Property Investor · Kent, WA · Member since 2014 · 83 posts · 27 votes9y
Hi David,
Ok so, all of us have been new. I felt like a blind girl, with no guide dog. I took the path of many people. I went to several very "over priced" seminars. Yes it cost several thousand dollars to learn. At the time, I didn't know where else to turn.Then, went to the library/Audible, (mostly free). Then found out about MeetUp.com groups where one could learn and grow and ask questions. Then did some deals. Did very well, boom. After I got better understanding about wholesaling/flipping, I started helping other newbies. I helped 48 my first year. For free. Guess how many people that asked for my help did any deals??? Two! All the rest were what I think of as professional students. Lot's of learning, no action. So, David, I get how you feel. Now if I spend my time helping someone I vet them first. To see if they are serious about crushing it, or just thinking about doing something someday. If they are ready to move now I work with them to get deals and split the profit. That seems fair to me.....now when someone asks for my help, I look at it as an opportunity.
- Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes9y
I usually tell them, "Depends" on where the property is, condition, price, needed repairs, terms, price point for the neighborhood and the list goes on.......
I own houses in 18 different states and I have actually been to exactly 1 of them!
If I had a farm, I would tell them the city and state. They may be wanting to sell something they have their eye on and just need a little help, so long story short, "Depends".
- Investor · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 16 votes9y
I understand you David. Sounds like you have no problem helping, but when you get a heavy dose of entitled users boldly asking/demanding information it's quite annoying.
I'm no expert and haven't experienced this but I can relate in other aspects. It drives me crazy when someone asks me a question without giving the answer ANY thought whatsover. They just want the free pass
Rant away @David Zheng !
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes9y
@Powers Miller , funny, how you have hardly any posts to your name, talk about integrity, but clearly aren't bothered by the rules that state that you can't advertise your services on the forum - other than the market place.
But seems that you know it all.
- Investor · Crystal, MN · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 277 votes9y
It would have been rich if Powers was from Austin, TX.
- 9yDawn AnastasiPro MemberRental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I get people emailing me and PM'ing me all the time asking questions about Milwaukee and where I invest, what I do, who I work with, etc. I don't mind sharing some information. I have a whole list of the contractors I use on my website. I just can't spend lots of time with everyone without some sort of compensation for my time because I have a life and a business to run. But I try to help where I can.
- Upstate, NY · Member since 2016 · 200 posts · 277 votes9yDavid Zheng I'm pretty sure people asking for Help is the exact purpose of this website . Not judging you but just from your post you are someone I would never do business with. If it annoys you just move on no need to be negative and rude. Just shows the type of person you are. Good luck succeeding long time in any business.
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
I'm originally from STL but have since relocated. This was an awesome deal that you pulled off. Like others have mentioned anyone asking for "help" isn't probably going to do anything with the info. That said...
Share GENERALS. It has been my experience that you can help folks build their business by helping them find similar areas without giving them "your" area. This is the sort of advice that can be applied to markets all over the country vs a ________ is where I look for deals.
Was it a gentrifying area near local parks you targeted? Did you follow in a new development? Etc.
This way you can help/provide value without training your competitors and avoid the kind of "flame" you're currently enjoying!
- Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 1 vote9y
Seen a few posts on here where I feel people share their success stories for bragging rights and others who were willing to spill most of the details...I'm a newbie myself trying to get my feet in wholesaling and i'm the type of person to do all the research myself first and if I have any questions that I really can't find the answer to, I write them down and put it to the side hoping i stumble upon the answers later on or the next day through more dedicated research or leave it for when I meet with my real estate attorney. I feel like it's all about piecing the puzzle together until you really need help. There are people out there who are just looking for answers even to questions they can google themselves which is why the frustration is understanding but there are others who have done their due diligence and have questions about things that aren't really talked about in the wholesaling process. I would just counteract by picking their brains a little bit to see how much research they've done before asking the question. Just be humble and not one of those people who forgot where they came from because you were once trying to figure it all out yourself.
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Joe Villeneuve I am old school I like to meet those that I network with.. ERGO I flew to Detroit and had breakfast with you... I seem to recall I paid for your eggs LOL...
I know I break the internet social rules because I really don't know the rules and frankly could care less.
this is interesting to read how polarized the responses are.. And the votes defiantly go against the OP on this one .. and I suspect most of those are beginners or newer investors..
AS I stated way up in the thread a lot of how we interact once we get a message is based on common courtesy and politeness at least that's how I look at it.
- 9yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Joe Villeneuve I am old school I like to meet those that I network with.. ERGO I flew to Detroit and had breakfast with you... I seem to recall I paid for your eggs LOL...
I know I break the internet social rules because I really don't know the rules and frankly could care less.
this is interesting to read how polarized the responses are.. And the votes defiantly go against the OP on this one .. and I suspect most of those are beginners or newer investors..
AS I stated way up in the thread a lot of how we interact once we get a message is based on common courtesy and politeness at least that's how I look at it.
I recall that breakfast, and the meeting. I enjoyed it. I'm old school too...with a dose of youth. Must be my teenager's influence.
The part that fascinates me, is how many people will start their post with a version of, "I haven't read the entire discussion, but..." and then they say something that makes you agree with them...that they didn't read the entire discussion...and you wonder if they read more than a few posts to base their statements on.ex
What's a shame is the OP stated I think somewhere on page 2 that he was venting, based on a couple of bad things going against him, and then made his case...which made more sense. I still don't think I would take his same direction, but I have no problem with him taking it as I think he at least stated a more complete explanation for his original post.
The next ?? pages went out of sync, as far as the topic and statement, which ended up (ans still is adding to) bringing in a number of head scratching posts, as in "are they on the correct discussion"?
Gotta love the internet.
Oh, and thanks again for breakfast. I still owe you. When are you coming out again?
- Specialist · CHICAGO · Member since 2015 · 680 posts · 650 votes9y
@David Zheng, you have every right to be pissed. You can even be pissed on this site. You don't have to share information with anyone. So...when you do, like you did...to help someone else...then they took your exact deal...never speak to them again.
Those of you out there giving him crap...I'm going to defend him. Why? Because, he should feel supported by his peers. This isn't JUST a site to support newbies!
This guy isn't calling one person out! He's not bullying anyone (like I have seen many do inserting their opinions as to what MUST work or not). He is simply frustrated and wanting to vet with peers.
I'm one of the biggest supporters and teachers in my area for new investors...but damn near criminalizing him venting. SHAME.
For a long time I took on all the frustrations, losses, and pain of this business alone. Friends didn't get it, my family didn't want to hear it, and all it was doing was breaking me down...along with my family for awhile. I needed an outlet.
WE are his outlet. If a new person reads his post of frustration and decides real estate investing isn't for them...that tells you how likely they were to ever try.
Don't go around being mightier than thou on here. Karma has a great way of equalizing where we all stand. And shame on me for getting after any of you...
David, I just want you to know I don't think you are out of line to air your frustrations, even on here. I think some people just chime in with certain statements to get votes. *sick*. If you or ANYONE ELSE on this site needs to be heard because the had a bad day BLOW UP MY DM. I like to think I have some help to give...if not...maybe just writing your feelings down helps you develop your own solution. ANd I am sure @Kayla V. was just inquiring for the sake of knowledge of the way all MSA's generally differ.
My take away is...the whole country is crazy hot. You have to be equally crazy to solve that problem.
- Knoxville, TN · Member since 2016 · 78 posts · 3 votes9yWhen I read comments like this is when I just rather stay quiet and not ask; because the more I learn the more I think ohh my!!! that was a really stupid question from my end. And still continues.... so thank you for those that take an extra mile to help those that are just trying to get out of the rat race 😛
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes9y
@Linda S. and all others with similar thought patterns. Everyone is a newbie at sometime, and all of us have learned something from someone else. If someone asks you a question you aren't comfortable answering, simply tell them you prefer not to share that info, as there's a limited number of properties in the area you work, but maybe give advice that is helpful but more generic.
As for thinking that having a certain bank balance makes you a smarter, better, investor than others, it just isn't true. I have had times in my life where I've been dead broke, and times where I've been flush. We've done million dollar buildings without a dime to our names, so and label people "dreamers" insinuating that because they have no money, credit, or whatever the obstacle is, is foolish. Dreamers, dreams can propel them and motivate them into figuring out how to put together some great deals, in creative ways.
I personally will share anything I have learned over the years with anyone that desires to learn. I often have people calling me up for advice, some even in the market or neighborhood where we are building, and I am ALWAYS happy to oblige, have them come by our jobs, etc. Never once has anyone stolen a project we've planned on doing from us. We have however [had several people want to do deals with us, but so far, for the most part haven't partnered, except once with another BP member in a very creative way (I'll share more on that another time)
I guess what I'm saying is "what goes around, comes around". I joined BP because its a community filled with people with a vast amount of experience, in every niche imaginable, and from every economic and social background there is, all willing to share with others what they know, without ridiculing those with less money, less experience, etc. There's not one person on here, no matter their experience level or economic position that cannot learn something new from someone, and sometimes it's someone with less money or experience. I love this site!
- Rental Property Investor · Paola, KS · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 20 votes9y
Although David's post can ruffle some feathers, I do hope that some will interpret it as motivation to do some due diligence before asking for assistance. At my normal day job I work with a lot of new people. I expect them to work hard at what they do, trying their best to self-educate what they can. And they are smart people so they typically figure things out with a little assistance. All the while, I realize that I never know when I might need one of them to get me out of a pinch, so I try to start out by building up the relationship rather than knocking it down. I say respond with gratitude that they are asking for help, and guide them, but straight up answers with nitty gritty details could backlash if it's obvious they have no experience.
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