Apopka FL is a town to keep on your radar....here's why

Apopka FL is a town to keep on your radar....here's why

Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes

This is an informational post for anyone interested in the Central Florida area to consider Apopka in your search. It's not about specific deals or asset classes even, but it all comes back to that when an area explodes.  The fuse in Apopka is lit and has been burning a good number of years.  I'm not referring to the overall market.  For a moment, who knows or cares what that is doing, think of this discussion in a "flat appreciation" frame of mind independent of what the overall 'housing market' does or doesn't do.

  Apopka is a town that gets skipped over in most Orlando news, and it blows my mind due to the billions of dollars of development happening right now right here in Apopka.  It's such an 'ignored' town that my Dad's nickname for it growing up was "Apopka-tucky".  Do with this info as you see fit, but as I get to a point of being able to build my investment portfolio, I will stay within a few miles of my home with every property. Not for convenience, but for market stability and growth I see all around me every day.  I feel there's intense growth approaching.  All of the corporate centers around: Maitland, Lake Mary, Orlando, UCF, are all becoming limited on land.  Apopka has literally thousands of acres of raw undeveloped land.  I believe geographically speaking it is one of the largest cities, much of which has been slowly turning from agriculture to neighborhoods with 0.2 acre lots.

I've quite often been a big 'cheerleader' for Apopka on BP, maybe to a fault.  But I love this little country town about 25 minutes Northwest of Orlando and I hope any central florida investor at least considers looking here.  I feel like the signs are all around that it's going to be massive, and sooner rather than later.  Forget, for a moment what the market does this year or next. I'm not even talking 3-4.  Nobody really truly knows exactly what home prices will do.  What I do know for absolute fact is that the 32712 and 32703 zip codes are going to see absolute huge gains in the next decade or two.  We still fall well behind Orlando proper in price per square foot, a bit less behind in market rents.  But the market pricing doesn't seem to be paying attention to what is and has been obvious all around me since at least 2002. Apopka is going to be the next Lake Nona, Lake Mary, or College Park.  

  I grew up a few miles East in Altamonte Springs just across the Seminole County line and loved the area in the late 80s and early 90s.  By the late 90s, Altamonte was overrun by unrestrained and un-planned growth by way of low income apartments next to 30-40 lot neighborhoods with warehouses and auto body shops behind. By the early 2000s, those low income apartments were getting low-grade rehabs and sold at stupid premiums as condos, just in time for a bunch of people to buy them for $200-300k only to see prices fall to below $100k, foreclosures skyrocket, and HOAs fail miserably.  There's no "central Altamonte Springs" despite their marketing efforts with Uptown Altamonte and the failing Altamonte Mall.  I watched Altamonte flounder while seeing the longest serving mayor in the US, John Land, carefully plan and oversee 'his' city of Apopka for 60+ years until shortly before his death in 2014.  We had a shifty lobbyist mayor who slipped his way in when the other mayor bowed out abruptly for health reasons.  This slick fella stuck around and cleaned out reserves for four years, blowing through millions to his buddies. We kicked him out as a collective and have a great local insurance broker as Mayor since 2018, Bryan Nelson, who's whipping the budget into shape in some brilliant ways, including a massive pay cut himself. 

When ready to buy in 2009, way before finding BP or getting my real estate license, I ultimately chose to buy a home in Apopka.  I bought my house 10 years ago even now after having exponentially more knowledge of the market, I would 100% buy it again today even at today's price with 42% appreciation since purchase.  Apopka wasn't big enough at the time of the crash to be littered with apartments-turned condos-turned foreclosures.  It is almost entirely single family homes with many dating back to the early 1900s on original bumpy brick roads with thousands more built in the boom that has been happening since 2002.  Prices dropped in the recession and there were of course foreclosures like anywhere, but builders (the financially stable ones) were still building houses at a steady pace through it all.  Yet drive 5 minutes and there are actual cows and actual fields, several natural springs, nature preserves..... it's night and day from downtown Orlando 25 minutes away.

The wekiva parkway toll project http://www.wekivaparkway.com/ has brought Orlando Toll Road access to Apopka and Mount Dora making commuting easier than from more gridlocked cities closer to Orlando.  Developers have been feverishly building homes and developing land for more communities in and around Apopka, now spreading to Mt. Dora as well.  One DR Horton neighborhood just across the Mt. Dora line has something like 246 houses going in with resort style clubhouse amenities.   Down the road a short way is still massive acreage working farms.

in 2017 Florida Hospital (Now Advent Health) opened a $203 million hospital campus at the hub of toll roads 414/429.  That immediately spiked property values in the surrounding area by 20-30% when the overall market saw 10% growth.  Countless builder neighborhoods followed suit and a luxury apartment complex sprang from the ground with the cheapest 1/1 going for $1200/mo and 3/2 apartments for $1750/mo.

Then comes news that Orlando Health bought 51 acres in North Apopka.  I don't think they've confirmed plans or timeline for build, but obviously an eventual hospital facility.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-orlando-...

So that's a pretty big deal for a second huge new hospital to come on the heals of the first.  Then I read that Coca Cola is adding 20,000 square feet to their Apopka R&D facility in town and in talks to build a 300,000 square foot bottling plant on a different 90 acre Apopka parcel:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/01/2...

Lots of construction jobs to build and then more permanent jobs once complete.  Just today I see this new article about GOYA foods having plans for 330,000 square feet of processing facility in Apopka as well:

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2019/...

There are countless other businesses building and developing smaller less news worthy projects that collectively are huge too.  There's also a "City Center Apopka" project underway starting with a hotel next to a historic mansion that serves as an event venue.  Next phase is pedestrian friendly businesses and boardwalk around an existing pond with fountain.  In north Apopka close to the Orlando Health parcel is another larger approved 600 acre development called Kelly Park Crossing. It's going to be a mixed use development planned.  So far I believe Publix is the only confirmed with plans to build there, but retail, commercial, sf and mf residential are planned/approved in the future land use guidelines.

I'm still working to build capital myself to get my first investment single family or duplex, helping clients along the way to buy singles and small multi for rentals or flips.  I'm nowhere near the 'pay grade' of these multi-million dollar development projects. However, paying attention to these massive projects is extremely exciting for the $150k little basic house that could be worth $300k well before a College Park house doubles in value. 

So BP, am I just being extremely biased to my home town or does it look to anyone else like the figurative lid is about to blow off this little under-valued town in the next 10 years? 

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Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 3 votes
7y

Russell, 

Couldn't agree more with your insight into the Apopka market. Its overlooked and the (lack of) response to your post is perhaps just more evidence of that! This area is my top target here in Cent. FL for my first investment property which I plan to do this year. Would love to sync up with you further and discuss opportunities in the area!

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  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Russell, 

    Couldn't agree more with your insight into the Apopka market. Its overlooked and the (lack of) response to your post is perhaps just more evidence of that! This area is my top target here in Cent. FL for my first investment property which I plan to do this year. Would love to sync up with you further and discuss opportunities in the area!

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 207 posts · 125 votes
    7y

    @Evan Kiggen and @Russell Holmes

    I agree. People always think Orlando and most have never heard of Apopka. Even the surrounding communities of Altamonte Springs, Longwood and Maitland are rarely mentioned.  I guess the MSA gets all the attention, but that is good of us local investors :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    7y

    @Evan Kiggen and @Shawn G. thanks for the replies!  I had almost forgot I made this post with the lack of replies it got, haha.  Shawn's right though, all the hype going toward Orlando is great for those of us searching the outskirts.  

    By the way, Evan, I highly recommend checking out the Orlando meetup Shawn and a few other locals coordinate on a monthly basis: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/521/topics/704331-central-florida-real-estate-investment-hub-meetup I'm a regular attender but can't take any credit for how incredible it is, I'm in awe every month.

    The first few were a handful of people talking Real Estate at a local diner.  Now it has swelled to what, 35 people or so Shawn?  I think there are 60+ in the group chat app, but not all can make each meeting.   We've got speakers scheduled each month and ongoing conversation in a group chat app between meetings.  Several members of the group work together on different projects and share freely. Some self manage condos and others syndicate apartment complexes.  Just last week an incredible property manager spent several hours teaching us all how we could feasibly manage properties ourselves, thereby not needing her services.  Sure down the road with too many doors it may circle back to her for clients, but where else does a PM share their secrets and say "you can do this without me!".  The meeting last month was several members of the group doing a 'deep dive' into their deals and next month is an Attorney.  

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    7y

    I've got some more growth updates for Apopka from Friday's local paper, The Apopka Chief. It's locally distributed and only available by subscription and delay online.  Most of it is your typical 'small town paper' but there are always these nuggets of development gold tucked inside. I'll give excerpts to save the longer read and then a bit of opinion on each:

    "Alta East Shore: this apartment complex is planned to be built about a half-mile west of Advent Health Apopka..... Expected to be marketed as higher end apartments, the gated complex will include nine three-story buildings, one of which will include a clubhouse and leasing office.  A community pool area will be attached.....  Of the 285 total apartments in Alta East Shore, 127 will have one bedroom, 122 will have two bedrooms, and 36 will be three-bedroom apartments.  Five of the buildings will house 36 apartments each, all one and two bedrooms.  The residential buildings will have a combined area of 117,797 square feet. The Complex will also have a small dog park on the 24 acre parcel.  Two outparcels of between two and three acres...will have commercial development...after the apartment buildings are constructed.  In addition, there will be 10 five- and six-unit garages available for parking cars and storage"

    This is going to be very close to the previously built high-end Marden Ridge apartments and the brand new hospital campus opened in 2017, both mentioned in my initial post.  This will be the second luxury apartment complex to be built in this specific area since 2017. 

    Avian Pointe:  "Avian Pointe will be located north of Lust Road immediately east of SR-429. Overall Avian Pointe is a 128 acre parcel and plans call for 480 apartments in 10 four-story buildings along with 222 townhomes and 56 single family homes.  At the south end of the property are 15 acres set aside for an elementary school.....Most of the talk (at the recent meeting) centered on the recreation area that will include a soccer/multi-purpose field as well as tennis courts and basketball courts, rest rooms, and parking over a 6.25 acre parcel.....Grand Avian Parkway will have a five-foot wide landscaped median, 5-foot wide sidewalk on the east side and an 11-foot wide bike path/trail on the west side. "

    They didn't specify if these will be "high-end" apartments, but it definitely doesn't strike me as "low income housing".

    We have an incredibly cool 'nature drive' here called Lake Apopka North Shore.  Photographers and bird watchers from across the state come to capture photos of varieties of birds and other wildlife not often seen while keeping an eye out for the lazy strut of 10-15'+ gators that call the area home. Google image search "Lake Apopka North Shore" and scroll through photos, and yes there are lots of massive alligators along with beautiful birds, otters, and others.   You'd never guess this beautiful natural setting is within 20 mins of Downtown Orlando.  This free nature drive begins at the south end of Lust Road, just on the doorstep of Avian Pointe. It travels for 11 miles before connecting back to civilization to the West.  

    Sure I won't personally make any money on these developments unless I bring a buyer for a townhouse or single family. The builders, developers, and financing is all in place. However, seeing massive developments like this coming to Apopka reaffirms that I'm likely on the right track in predicting accelerated growth here compared to much of 'established Orlando'. Rather than start a new post every time there's a new Apopka development coming, I'll just keep this thread current for anyone interested. I skip over all the 50-100 home neighborhoods, storage facilities, fast casual dining, and autoparts stores that sprout up, those have become almost too common to notice until HOA's get into heated battles with developers over access rights (and usually win). But when there's a little column in the hometown paper that mentions 987 new multi family residential units coming along with another 56 single family, it stands out a little :).

  • Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Looking to buy north of the city, and this analysis is making me consider Apopka. I agree with all the points you raised. The will definitely continue to grow, especially with the kind of development you just listed above. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    7y

    @Austin Thomas thanks for the reply! There are great markets throughout Central Florida, but I really feel like there is all this pent up potential that is in the process of becoming tangible development quite quickly.  It's exciting to watch and I'm aiming to buy and hold a bunch of property in the area before it becomes the next Lake Nona or College Park! 

  • Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Russell Holmes I agree!!! My husband and I were looking at winter park, lake Mary, Maitland areas for our first property but after some research I quickly turned my attention to apopka...so glad I saw your post!! This helps so much!

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Russell Holmes hey how are you? Do you have any properties to wholesale in apopka ?

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    7y

    @Kristopher Bustillo I'm working on a few leads of distressed houses that would make great deals, but none currently under contract wholesale. My wife's newly licensed and diving into Lake County probate properties for off market deals so in time we'll build some off market momentum as well. I've got some on-market momentum to manage as well and I can't do it all solo :). I'd suggest searching out some wholesalers and joining their lists, I know I get some good wholesale deals sent from time to time. Can't say I can recommend one over any other specifically since I haven't bought a wholesale personally. Analyzed several decent looking deals though from a few different ones.

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Russell Holmes thanks for your reply. 

  • NY · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Curious what everyone thinks about Mount Dora? @Russell Holmes @Pietrina Saav @Austin Thomas@Shawn G. @Evan Kiggen

  • Lender · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 173 posts · 66 votes
    7y

    @Natasha Dillon  I live in Eustis, right next to Mount Dora, and we are liking the looks of it.  Based on the future plans for areas near here, and the growing population coming from the Orlando area, it seems that this location will become a lot more popular over the coming years.  Russell and I have talked a lot about the surrounding markets, including North Apopka, Mt. Plymouth, Tavares, Mount Dora, etc, and there seem to be a lot of "green lights" ahead.  I have not invested in anything myself just yet, but I am looking to buy rental properties in Central Florida and will house hack my first property.  What types of investing are you looking into?

  • NY · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Robert Kirkley - I'm looking at multifamily (30 units and up)

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    7y

    @Natasha Dillon I agree with Robbie, Mount Dora is a great area, and I'd expand your search area to include more of northern Lake Co as well. 

    Values are below that of Orlando proper, but rents are getting very close to the same as more infrastructure and growth come. Areas such as Eustis, Umatilla, Sorrento, Mt. Plymouth are also on the grow. Including a two of the BP members you've tagged, I had three buyers in under 60 days make the move from more central Orange County to North Lake County (Leesburg, Eustis, and Mt. Dora). It's a small sampling, but is evidence of the trend toward Lake County growth.  Not to leave out another really hot market, Clermont is growing by leaps and bounds.  I don't really focus on that market as much, but if someone else does feel free to chime in.  Everything I hear about Clermont is positive as well.

    Downtown Mt. Dora is a great year-round Airbnb market as long as you're within the main downtown district. There are several historic blocks with brick roads and older buildings with an awesome lakefront dining/entertainment. There are boat rides off the dock through canals, almost weekly festivals, biker events, art shows, etc: Downtown Mt. Dora events

    Even on the off weeks snowbirds come down for weeks at a time. Most homes West of 441 and within about 1.5-2 miles of Donnelly St and W 5th Ave have great AirBnb/STR potential as well as being quiet streets to live on full time. Under a mile is premium since it's considered walking distance. 1-2 miles is biking distance and fills up still due to procrastinators who miss the walking distance STRs. Due to this STR demand and the incredibly desirable homes for owner occupants, prices in this area tend to rule out cash flow to 'normal' long term tenants. Outside of that 'hot' area, STR demand would taper off, but across all of the previously mentioned areas, long term rentals are still in plenty of demand. For single family, there are definitely some blocks here and there that you'd be the risky pioneer making the first rehab move, but if you're looking for 30+ unit multis, rehabbing one of those WOULD be neighborhood-changing itself regardless of neighboring properties, so being the 'pioneer' to do so isn't as big of a risk in a sense.

      I know the area very well, focusing the majority of my efforts in Northwest Orange and Northern Lake Counties, but my expertise as a Realtor ends around the 4-unit point. There is some newly-overlaid R-6 zoning (6 units per acre, some ways to increase to 7 per acre through a process) applied to some of Mt. Plymouth area which was previously single family.   Existing multis larger than an occasional duplex or quad are pretty rare in the area since it had previously been pretty rural, but some of the larger R-6 lots could be perfect for a larger multi build.   If looking for existing 30+ unit in Central Florida, I'd honestly suggest broadening your search and exploring each area that a potential deal pops up. Larger multis are much more rare to hit the market, so a larger search is helpful since something in Lakeland or New Smyrna Beach could come on the market with phenomenal numbers you'd miss if sticking to Orlando.  There are a lot of desirable areas with good market rent numbers in Central Florida where a multi could make sense. In the single family realm, I get to be a little more picky on focusing in tighter areas.

      @Kim Meredith Hampton is definitely the go-to broker for medium to large scale multifamily acquisition and property management once you acquire.  She and her husband run Hampton & Hampton offering both brokerage and property management divisions.  Every time I've spoken with Kim she's been on the way to or from a large multi somewhere within a 200 mile radius of Orlando, finding deals all over the state.  I believe they cover 11 counties and have great systems for scale in place.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 207 posts · 125 votes
    7y

    @Natasha Dillon I am a fan of Mt Dora. I look for deals up there all the time. 

  • Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    7y

    @Russell Holmes I’m in Missouri and your post caught my eye. I am going to start researching the area.

  • Real Estate Agent · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    @Russell Holmes Thanks for linking the Orlando investor meet up! When is the next meeting? Been looking to get involved with a group as such :) 

  • Lender · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 340 posts · 115 votes
    6y

    @Hilary Stalder I just sent the link to some of my office as well. Thanks @Russell Holmes

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    6y

    @Hilary Stalder the next one will be November 2nd! First Saturday of every month.  The next one is going to be focused on the topic of Opportunity Zones....which I keep hearing about but only have a limited understanding of.  Definitely looking forward to it!  We usually all get there around 9:00 and network/chat for a half hour or so before getting settled in for the guest speaker.  It's growing quite well but still a small enough group for a casual and comfortable feeling where everyone feels they can participate, ask questions, and grow.  I may be the messenger who linked it in this thread, but the true thanks goes to @Shawn G. and @Bernadeau C. who are the pioneers/managers/concierge/planners/strategists of the Central Florida Real Estate Investment Hub group!  It wouldn't be what it is without their efforts.  Less than two years ago it was a group of 8-10 folks meeting at local eateries.

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    6y

    @Dustin Lauer I think you may have been the one from FidusFi that I met at a post-Dorian walk-through of my listing on Hart Blvd in Orlando closed back in September.  You were at least on the email thread for that one and I don't think it was Jon that came out.  I wasn't involved in the buyers/funding side of that one, but I've shared with others much of what we discussed regarding your different product offerings, hard money-to-long term, etc.  It would be great to have you out to a meetup, you guys really have some great funding strategies on tap and I'm sure quite a few folks there would be interested in discussing what you have to offer. 

  • Bernadeau C.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 540 posts · 230 votes
    6y

    Great post @Russell Holmes Thank you for the kind words! I will definitely be considering Apopka for my next purchase! 

  • New to Real Estate · Brooklyn NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Russell Holmes Great Post, Sounds like like you really Know your stuff! 

    Reading your post Apopka sounds like the perfect area that I am looking for, but I ran a quick search for fixer upper properties on auction.com, hubzu.com, zillow and redfin and every thing came up zero, is there something missing here?

    Again thanks for your extensive report, I would love to hear more!

  • Real Estate Broker · Apopka, FL · Member since 2017 · 492 posts · 528 votes
    6y

    @Yosef Katz thank you!  I've been hyper-focused on the growth in the surrounding area for quite some time. I feel that the Apopka area as well as North Lake County (Mt. Dora, Mt. Plymouth, Eustis, Sorrento, Umatilla) will be steadily growing and in demand areas for years to come.  Demand is high and with raw land all around, new development is keeping existing home prices from getting out of hand like they would if there was no land to expand into.

    The City Center Apopka project I mentioned breaking ground in the original post is well underway.  The hotel isn't open yet but appears to be most of the way complete.  Street and intersection improvements and restructuring of some traffic flow is taking place to prepare for the next phases there.  A few old buildings have been razed to make way for new in this area as well.

    The first anchor store in the Kelly Park Crossing future land use area I mentioned has been approved, there's now a "Publix coming soon" sign at the corner of Kelly Park Rd and Plymouth Sorrento Rd in North Apopka, but the land is still uncleared. I hear the line for publix subs is already forming though, haha.

      New builder developments have sprouted up and are being built faster than I can keep track of, mostly single family homes starting at $300k and mostly on parcels of at least 10-15 acres, they don't bother with smaller neighborhoods.  DR Horton, Toll Brothers, Mattamy Homes, KB Homes, Ryan Homes and others are feverishly building $300-500k homes as quickly as they can. Even American Homes 4 Rent is building an entire neighborhood of 4/2 homes a mile from my house that will be all for-rent (single parcel and management, like an apartment complex of single family homes)

    However, your point of not finding fixer uppers easily is also true. With mortgage rates low, 5-6% appreciation in the last year, and extremely low inventory, fixer upper deals have become very hard to find. I'm under contract now with buyers on a live-in flip that took us over 6 months to find after offering aggressively on 4-5 homes and losing out to multiple offers on every one. This last one checked all the boxes and putting in an offer with an escalation clause we finally won out over the multiple offers, but it was a hard road there. ARV of $285k, list price of $245k, and we are under contract for less than that number, enough for some gained equity for my buyers, just about break even if they were to sell immediately. They'll have some gained equity to live in it, but would not have been outstanding flip-to-sell margins at all, likely why our offer beat out others who may have been aiming to flip it. A few of the flippers and wholesalers I know in the Orlando area have been coming up so short on deals that they've begun to offer their capital as private lending to others satisfied with paper thin margins.

    I'll give an example to show where the market was 10 months ago when I wrote the original post to where it is now:

    I ended up coming in as a JV partner earlier this year with a client I represented in buying a fixer upper in late 2018 in North Apopka. We had offered on 8-9 properties before this one hit the market and felt that a mediocre deal to be his first flip was better than no deal. The house next door in worse shape had sold just before at $173k and this one listed at $125k. We jumped on it at full list in less than 12 hours and had it under contract. With ridiculous GC delays stretching out the timeline and decisions needing to be made to get it back on track, I came in to the project to help manage the managers and dive into some hands on work to get it done. It's a 'hand shake' partnership on this one, ownership 100% legally his, but he'll share some profit and we've both learned exponentially more than we could by reading or networking alone. The 8-10 week rehab turned out to take a year (luckily it was cash not hard money), although lessons were learned and it'll still come out in the black with priceless lessons learned to put to use on our next project. That home was purchased for $125k in November of 2018 as a 1319sf block 3/1 with newer roof and windows. Part of that square footage was a permitted garage conversion adding about 300sf and a needed family room. We added a permitted half bathroom, new HVAC, fully remodeled the full bathroom, new counters, floors, appliances, a few doors, re-sided a 20x20 detached garage plus windows and doors on that, landscaped, etc etc. and its now a really nice starter house getting a lot of showing activity in a few days on market. Luckily in that year it's taken for a 'basic' rehab, the market has appreciated 5-6% to make up for some cost overrun and the entry level fully rehabbed inventory has gone almost nonexistent. It's had about $65k worth of rehab and holding costs (at least $15k of overrun from GC handling things I would have chosen to sub out if I was in it from the start) and we've got it listed at $225k. $190k +/- all in over a year's time with a $220-225k ARV is much tighter margins and longer span than were planned and we think we could do the same exact project again saving at least 6 months and $15-25k in rehab costs. So we're ready to get the next project going (he's got the ability to buy the next now, rehab with proceeds from this sale). However, right within the neighborhood we got this decent but dated house for $125k a year ago, here are the most recent deals that we have come across which are quite representative of deals I've found at a broader radius:

    -The same floor plan house without a permitted garage conversion so it's only 1000sf, 3/1 with a single car garage....without new windows, and with a leaky roof: REO bank owned and hit the market at $70k. As soon as I sent out the email to him saying "I found the next, lets offer $70k NOW", the bank pulled the listing and re-listed at $115k and it sold after multiple offers for $121k. Yikes.... It would have taken AT LEAST $25k to convert the garage, install new windows and roof, and get this house to the starting point ours was at for $125k, and there was also no detached 20x20 garage. Even if we kept rehab to $40k after that, ARV without a garage would be about $205k....with a $186k all in that could have swelled to $195k...ouch. Maybe you could buy it and repair to be all in at just under ARV, but no margin in resale unless it's all DIY rehab. Great deal at $70k, hard pass for $121k.

    -Literally four houses away from the current project is a 950sf 3/1 with an attached one car garage. No detached garage or new windows but it does have a brand new roof.  I saw the Realtor's sign days before it hit the market, so I called her up to get the price and access code to walk the house.... $154,500.  I got the access instructions and walked it....it's a dump, worse off than the one we got for $125k. Bad layout, nowhere easy for a half or full bathroom, awkward transition if we did convert the garage....  I told the Realtor that it was worth a maximum of $85k and I'd happily put in an offer if the seller would consider being reasonable.  She politely told me to pound sand and the seller would never consider it.  It's still on the market, but will likely sell near that price based on other comps. Realtor isn't crazy for listing it at that, but it's not a deal in my opinion.

    This same phenomenon has been going on across the Orlando area. It's not to say there aren't deals, there are still some. I think that with climbing rents and existing (move in ready) home prices remaining reasonable, it is still a great market in terms of strength and stability. For owner-occupant buyers I work with, I can find nice dated homes needing some cosmetic work to allow them to gain some equity and live there.  But the fixer upper deals with margins go in days and you've got to be willing to slim those margins down to the point of a live-in flip analysis on most of them as opposed to fatter profits that were available even a year ago. Many of them sell for prices that I literally can't see leaving any room for profit. Many GCs and small builder operations are starting to build spec infill houses themselves and sell for good prices. I'm still on the hunt for our next project, but in the meantime my partner and I are going to be setting up meetings with a few local builders with a reputation for building in-fill semi-custom new construction smaller homes for reasonable prices.  Our target is going to be 1200-1500sf 3/2 and 4/2 homes since these are smaller than what the national builders are developing in from-scratch communities. They would come in at or below median price as opposed to being 25% or more above it like most new construction competition from national builders doing larger than average homes.  These smaller entry-level homes built brand new sell extremely quickly and for $160-180/sf.  Some preliminary numbers we've compiled looks as if we can build them with land, utilities, and finishes for $110-130/sf with lots of variables we are in the process of narrowing down.  Once we meet with a few builders and get some solid numbers, we're going to run numbers based on a build-to-hold and build-to-sell strategy to see if either or both are feasible.  From there, we'll explore options of buying single lots or larger parcels to subdivide, and I've found a few landowners willing to sell with seller-financing which could make development less cash-intensive. 

    So my opinion of Apopka being an incredible market hasn't changed, and in fact I think the growth has picked up speed with low inventory and low mortgage rates (plus 300k people a year moving to FL). However, that low inventory is causing me to at least consider pivoting from what I thought would be going for a second flip or BRRRR of an existing house to meeting with builders to discuss the builds of new homes to hold or sell. If the numbers work right to BRRRR new construction on single family or even duplexes, it would be an incredibly strong strategy in the current low-inventory market. My JV partner happens to be all cash so the option is there for longer projects, but I think with financing (hard or traditional) it would be more difficult to consider new builds. I also think that as well-financed flippers are adding to the pool of available hard money, more and more new flippers are entering the bidding pool on fixer houses dropping margins which further encourages me to consider a pivot to a strategy they can't do with hard money.

    I still love this market I live in, but it's taking some creativity to make rather than find deals!

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