Surprised Cash-Out Refinance is so expensive

Surprised Cash-Out Refinance is so expensive

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

I purchased a positive cash flowing property last summer, for cash and am now (finally) looking to do a cash-out refi to pull the cash to use on another property. My other properties were all purchased with traditional bank mortgages so I get that side of the equation. On this one, I bought at let's say $51000 and its now worth approx. $62000. Not a huge appreciation, but it's something and considering this is Midwest, it fits. The refi rates I've gotten estimates for so far are 5.25% (traditional bank) or 5.62% (investor focused broker) plus around $3200-3700 in closing costs. Seems excessive to me. I know this wasn't a true BRRRR since I purchased with a renter in place and the place has only had a few "rehab" fixes completed (exterior trim work and painting, bathroom leak floor replacement).

I'm looking to start scaling up and acquiring faster (better!) but in this case the cost to pull $42k out seems a little higher than I expected. What am I looking at wrong or missing here?

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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
  • Keep in mind you typically defer 1-2 payments when you refinance. You can pay the balance right back down using that temporary increased monthly cashflow, if you elected to roll closing costs into the new loan.
  • If you had and are going to continue to have an impound account for taxes and insurance, your old impound account balance will be refunded to you, after most folks roll the cost of the new escrow account into their loan balance. Apply that towards paying the balance down too.

Do both of those things, and >90% of refinances will not leave you unnecessarily more in debt (in this case it's a cash out refinance, so it can't be avoided).

Do most Americans do those above two suggested things, or do most Americans take that money and go buy shiny new objects with it? That's a different question entirely....

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  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Doug Schorr

    I just did a cash out refi on a SFR property I own outright. Paid 130k cash for it 5 years ago. It appraised at 195k. They gave me 75% LTV which is 146k. Did a 15 year loan at 4.125%. After all my closing costs and fees, I got 140k cash. Not great, not bad. But yes, those closing cost fees add up and take some profits away. PM me if you want the bank I went with. I would get loan quotes from at least two or three banks to compare all the numbers. Good luck!

  • Investor · Lafayette, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    Great conversations and incredibly timely. Would appreiate input on our first cashout refi. We are doing two investment properties with same mortgage broker (SFR & 4plex).

    Are fees out of line?

    SFR:

    Purchase Price: $250k in 2016

    Appraised: $578k

    LTV: 75% @ 4.25/fix/30yr

    Total Fees: $14k

    Cash Out (-fees): $247k

    Rents: $2,200 (adding 2nd 2/1 unit)

    4Plex:

    Purchase Price: $375k in 2016

    Appraised: $745k

    LTV: 70% @ 3.99/fix/30yr

    Total Fees: $22k

    Cash Out (-fees): $246k

    Rents: $5,200

  • Investor · Lafayette, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Chris Mason - Can you explain what you meant by deferred payments? My math is never great, but your idea could make me a hero with my financier (my wife). Thanks DJ

  • Rental Property Investor · Leander, TX · Member since 2018 · 183 posts · 264 votes
    7y

    I have several similar properties in Ohio and have been working with a lender whose fees are a little more reasonable. Send me a PM if interested and I'll share contact info. 

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Joel Fine If you are in Columbus Ohio Huntington has loans with only $500 in closing costs if you are in certain areas. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @Joel Fine now I just have to see if they will Refi me for a house in Oklahoma. Sometimes the small banks can’t leave their areas.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dj Larsen:

    @Chris Mason - Can you explain what you meant by deferred payments? My math is never great, but your idea could make me a hero with my financier (my wife). Thanks DJ

     Short version: remember when you purchased your house, how your first mortgage payment wasn't until like a month and a half after you closed? You probably moved in, set up utilities, had the housewarming party, all this stuff, and then went "wait, we've been living here over a month and haven't made a mortgage payment..." That happens when you refinance too.

    Long version: mortgage interest is collected in arrears. Let's suppose I set up your refinance, and let's suppose you close that refinance on 8/15. You will pay pre-paid interest for 15 days with the old lender, and 15 days with the new one, as part of that transaction (most commonly, rolled into your loan balance). So interest is covered for August. 9/1, interest begins to accrue for September. Your first payment, due November 1, will be for that interest that accrued in September. A lot of folks sell this as "skipping" a payment, but you didn't skip a damn thing, you're paying interest every day you have a mortgage. However it is ALSO true that you didn't make a payment on 9/1, so there's $2000 or $3000 still sitting in your checking account that isn't there in a normal month. I think "defer" is the most accurate/honest word to describe this short term temporary household cashflow bump phenomenon. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:

    @Joel Fine If you are in Columbus Ohio Huntington has loans with only $500 in closing costs if you are in certain areas. 

    What are these certain areas? Is that for a primary residence or investment properties, too? 

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Irina Belkofer If you want to send me a message I will give you my loan officer contact at Huntington. I do not have their map but I am sure he can help you out!

  • Investor · Lafayette, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Chris Mason - That makes sense. I need to slow down and pull my eyes off my spreadsheet (planned budget). Thank you.

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