Anyone else feel like the forums are losing value?
Peter TverdovBusiness Member
Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votesAnyone else feel like the forums are losing value?
Most Popular Reply
Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 202 votes
6ySo this is going to sound odd. You've become one of the 'village elders' here on BP based on the fact that you've seen and heard most of what's been posted; and you've posted over 1200 times yourself, so you've obviously been party to some great conversations.
Based on my experience on other forums (for wildly differing subjects than this) my transition into the known voice position put me in the same situation, I felt like I wasn't getting anything out of the forum anymore... but the reality was that I was the one now putting back into the forum what I had taken out earlier. It was my obligation to go back through and help all the people who were 'new' figure it all out; and faster than I did because now I had the forum information and ability to easily pinpoint valuable discussions for others.
You may not be getting much out of BP, but I can assure you that others are probably getting much out of you. So please don't leave or get discouraged... it's all part of the cycle!
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144 Replies
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 202 votes6y
So this is going to sound odd. You've become one of the 'village elders' here on BP based on the fact that you've seen and heard most of what's been posted; and you've posted over 1200 times yourself, so you've obviously been party to some great conversations.
Based on my experience on other forums (for wildly differing subjects than this) my transition into the known voice position put me in the same situation, I felt like I wasn't getting anything out of the forum anymore... but the reality was that I was the one now putting back into the forum what I had taken out earlier. It was my obligation to go back through and help all the people who were 'new' figure it all out; and faster than I did because now I had the forum information and ability to easily pinpoint valuable discussions for others.
You may not be getting much out of BP, but I can assure you that others are probably getting much out of you. So please don't leave or get discouraged... it's all part of the cycle!
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- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Ian Jaeger:
So this is going to sound odd. You've become one of the 'village elders' here on BP based on the fact that you've seen and heard most of what's been posted; and you've posted over 1200 times yourself, so you've obviously been party to some great conversations.
Based on my experience on other forums (for wildly differing subjects than this) my transition into the known voice position put me in the same situation, I felt like I wasn't getting anything out of the forum anymore... but the reality was that I was the one now putting back into the forum what I had taken out earlier. It was my obligation to go back through and help all the people who were 'new' figure it all out; and faster than I did because now I had the forum information and ability to easily pinpoint valuable discussions for others.
You may not be getting much out of BP, but I can assure you that others are probably getting much out of you. So please don't leave or get discouraged... it's all part of the cycle!
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That's part of it but I've been on other forums nearly 20 years and still get lots of value. This place is becoming more watered down and to get a better discussion I basically have to pay $500 a year lol cmon.
- Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes6y
I'd generally agree with some of the things you've said. While I dont think it should matter if someone's new or not. Alot of the questions posted are asked frequently or could be found extremely easily elsewhere.
For me I dont want to upgrade to a pro membership because as a contractor there are no perks/incentive for me to upgrade. You cant even find contractors that are active on this site under the network tab it redirects to homeadvisors.
- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @George W.:
I'd generally agree with some of the things you've said. While I dont think it should matter if someone's new or not. Alot of the questions posted are asked frequently or could be found extremely easily elsewhere.
For me I dont want to upgrade to a pro membership because as a contractor there are no perks/incentive for me to upgrade. You cant even find contractors that are active on this site under the network tab it redirects to homeadvisors.
What do you charge to plumb and install a fixture for new construction work? Yes, I put you on the spot lol.
I agree with you from a contractor perspective. We manage rehabs and it's Angies list and Home Advisor by a mile.
- 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
BP isnt so much for me at this point in my journey about finding new information, it is about providing information so I can build a larger network of people I know. Ive probably done somewhere in the range of 50-75 deals with people Ive met in these forums.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes6y
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
Originally posted by @George W.:
I'd generally agree with some of the things you've said. While I dont think it should matter if someone's new or not. Alot of the questions posted are asked frequently or could be found extremely easily elsewhere.
For me I dont want to upgrade to a pro membership because as a contractor there are no perks/incentive for me to upgrade. You cant even find contractors that are active on this site under the network tab it redirects to homeadvisors.
What do you charge to plumb and install a fixture for new construction work? Yes, I put you on the spot lol.
I agree with you from a contractor perspective. We manage rehabs and it's Angies list and Home Advisor by a mile.
I dont do new construction unless it's high end custom built homes mainly because it's just not a sustainable business model for me. theres no money in track homes lol. I do more residential and custom bathrooms
- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
BP isnt so much for me at this point in my journey about finding new information, it is about providing information so I can build a larger network of people I know. Ive probably done somewhere in the range of 50-75 deals with people Ive met in these forums.
I am a property manager first and realtor second so maybe that's why it's less than you but of the people who do reach out to me, 90% are tire kickers. I have done far less business through BP in the last 2 years than I did the 2 years prior to that. Some of the DMs I get are so ridiculous, I actually screen people lol.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
BP isnt so much for me at this point in my journey about finding new information, it is about providing information so I can build a larger network of people I know. Ive probably done somewhere in the range of 50-75 deals with people Ive met in these forums.
I am a property manager first and realtor second so maybe that's why it's less than you but of the people who do reach out to me, 90% are tire kickers. I have done far less business through BP in the last 2 years than I did the 2 years prior to that. Some of the DMs I get are so ridiculous, I actually screen people lol.
Ive got a whole system thats pretty specific for BP. I was actually going to be teaching it at BPCon, but it got cancelled, maybe next year. I generate about $10 million in volume from BP, as well as having met many of the other people I do business with or partner with on other ventures....but yeah, I called it lead filtration...not only generating the leads, but filtering out the bad ones.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 11 votes6y
@Peter T.
It’s still a good place to network if you’re here for that. I like the blog the best - there’s some real good info that can be found if you have the time to dig through it all.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
I find myself browsing these forums less and less as times passes. Biggerpockets is such a machine now and while there is lots of useful advice, it's primarily aimed at newbies (who can't use the search function mind you). It's difficult to find worthwhile discussions or more advanced discussions and it wasn't that way a few years ago. The podcasts feel mostly the same (hey, I pyramided my way to 50 doors!). Anyone else feel this way? I've considered upgrading just so I can post in the forums with more serious folks but it's getting tougher to come on here and have discussions IMO. So many tire kickers or people asking ridiculous questions.
Presumably there are more total users and a higher percentage of novices than there use to be. I actually like to go to the "Newer Posts" tab and search through the "Unanswered Discussions" just because I remember how I felt when no one responded to a question I really wanted to know the answer to. I've also offered to speak with people on the phone in certain instances, etc. And honestly, I have absolutely nothing to gain, no angle. I'm not actively looking for capital partners, selling anything, etc. I'm simply helping others out of an attitude of giving. And yes, sometimes people ask very lazy questions, ie questions that have been asked a bazillion times on BP and can be easily searched. I probably still ask questions that seem ridiculous to those who know so much more than I do. I suppose there is always inefficiency and imperfection in anything run by humans or participated in by humans.
- 6yKenneth GarrettPro MemberInvestor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I think it’s a way to give back. I have met many local newbies at a local restaurant prior to the pandemic to provide them assistance that I have met through BP. I still learn things from time to time, but not as much as at the beginning. By giving back you will in return make connections with others. It’s not always about what’s in it for me but helping others.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
BP isnt so much for me at this point in my journey about finding new information, it is about providing information so I can build a larger network of people I know. Ive probably done somewhere in the range of 50-75 deals with people Ive met in these forums.
I am a property manager first and realtor second so maybe that's why it's less than you but of the people who do reach out to me, 90% are tire kickers. I have done far less business through BP in the last 2 years than I did the 2 years prior to that. Some of the DMs I get are so ridiculous, I actually screen people lol.
Ive got a whole system thats pretty specific for BP. I was actually going to be teaching it at BPCon, but it got cancelled, maybe next year. I generate about $10 million in volume from BP, as well as having met many of the other people I do business with or partner with on other ventures....but yeah, I called it lead filtration...not only generating the leads, but filtering out the bad ones.
And I thought you were here to teach people about cap rates...
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
I contemplated shutting this down - this is the generic version of "I've had it here, I'm leaving" post which isn't allowed per the rules, but it might be useful to head this off once.
I'm sorry you don't find value here. If not, why does it matter if anyone else feels that way? Why do you need confirmation that BP isn't what it used to be? And if you find the forums droll, there are other outlets on the internet. You should take advantage of them. You don't have to pay to be here.
The bottom line is that the population has voted, with their fingers, and BP far and away is the best and most populated real estate forums on the internet. Yes, sometimes that means "old-timers" have to wade through a lot of new questions. I still find plenty of value here, from newbies and old-timers, but maybe I'm not a glass half-empty guy. I see no point in ruminating on the changing composition of forum members, and especially no point looking for public confirmation of my position.
In my own life, I have found that when things seems unsatisfactory to me, the problem is usually me rather than some external force.
Skyline Properties - 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
You might find it more useful if you were using it to find people to make $ off of.
Other than that it's a flea market with some good info that can be found now and then in between the standard BS, rah-rah, groupthink, and oh ya, gurus/agents/marketers, ect.
Don't forget to add all those "negative Nancies" to your collection list.
- 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
You might find it more useful if you were using it to find people to make $ off of.
Other than that it's a flea market with some good info that can be found now and then in between the standard BS, rah-rah, groupthink, and oh ya, gurus/agents/marketers, ect.
Don't forget to add all those "negative Nancies" to your collection list.
Ya- the thing is they tend to be harder to fleece and get duped into making garbage investments less often than the sheep though.
Rather be a "negative Nancy", thank you very much.
You're probably right about the "sheep herders" though. I haven't encountered any that I can think of though. Maybe they just avoid me for some reason. LOL.
- 6yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I have always been one who does not advocate a "Search Function" because it kills conversation. If every question is answered with "Look at LINK XYZ in the FAQ... God these dumb newbies" then there is no dialog and it turns a forum into a Search engine. If that's the objective, fine (I'm pretty sure it's not).... But I can honestly say I have had brand new members throw out a statement or question that has made my head spin. I know the process around me and our contracts, but sometime the most mundane question starts spinning wheels. So for me, it still has value. The industry changes.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
I have not been around long, but I agree the tone has changed over the last year or so and now, it all about the sell... most folks are selling something and many of the responses are just to say “hey blah blah blah, i happen to sell/provide exactly what you need! It just a money making machine for BP and most individuals. Nothing wrong with that - but it should be a lot more transparent.
I think sometimes that BP is like the sea and there are guppies and then there are the sharks....
Anyway, I have learned some great stuff here, but Its just a different place now.
- Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes6y
Months ago, I was getting multiple connection requests from newly-minted BP women users who had poor grammar and just wanted to "be friends first." My wife was less than amused. Thankfully that crap has stopped with my coronavirus-themed profile pics. Nobody wants to be friends with a respirator first.
The stuff that really gets to me are shill plays that I objectively know are false. One great example is opportunists trying to tell us D-class midwest SFR can be run like B-class coastal multifamily "with the right systems," so scoop up the high cap rates and the hood is your oyster. That's at an all-time low now, or at least since I started lurking back in 2017.
I recently got hit with an avalanche of friend requests from people who think handymen find anything but fake jewelry and porn in teardowns. That was a bit disappointing, but I was expecting it.
"Let the old people die" coronavirus posts are gone. I am deeply grateful for that.
I think there's not that much in the way of useful posts because a lot of people simply aren't doing much as they wait out the pandemic.
- 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Months ago, I was getting multiple connection requests from newly-minted BP women users who had poor grammar and just wanted to "be friends first." My wife was less than amused. Thankfully that crap has stopped with my coronavirus-themed profile pics. Nobody wants to be friends with a respirator first.
The stuff that really gets to me are shill plays that I objectively know are false. One great example is opportunists trying to tell us D-class midwest SFR can be run like B-class coastal multifamily "with the right systems," so scoop up the high cap rates and the hood is your oyster. That's at an all-time low now, or at least since I started lurking back in 2017.
I recently got hit with an avalanche of friend requests from people who think handymen find anything but fake jewelry and porn in teardowns. That was a bit disappointing, but I was expecting it.
"Let the old people die" coronavirus posts are gone. I am deeply grateful for that.
I think there's not that much in the way of useful posts because a lot of people simply aren't doing much as they wait out the pandemic.
I think you are onto something with your last statement about the impact from the "virus". There's a lot of "hurry up and wait" now. Hurry up for info that REI are waiting to use.
As a side note, here is a list of some of the items I've "inherited" after closing on a property:
1 - Riding mower in new condition, A big one at a 900 sf bungalow. They would need to go onto the neighbor's lawn (2 houses down) just to turn it around.
2 - 4 post bed (same house) with mirrored canopy and built in storage under...in basement.
3 - Biggest safe I've ever seen in a house. Of course this was a "grow house", so...
4 - High end (very) security system (cameras). Same house as #3.
5 - Mountain bike...still in box
6 - Boat trailer (nope, no boat).
7 - Cars...OK, that's not a good thing.
8 - Kitchen appliances...brand new, that weren't included in the sale. I asked if the seller wanted to take them out, and the seller said they didn't even know they were there, but since the seller was out of state he didn't want to bother with them, sooo...
9 - Really old board games (for those born before the 21st century, those were the games that used dice and didn't involve email). Sold them online for more than a few bucks to a game collector. Proof that one man's (or woman's in this case) junk is another's antique,
...and my all time favorite...
10 - A Piano in excellent condition (after the cigarette smell was removed...took 6 months). I looked it up for it's value. Worth over $6k...now sitting in my living room. Sounds fantastic. Anyone want a used piano in good condition...cheap? N ot this one, the one this one replaced.
- Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 562 posts · 554 votes6y
@Peter T. I have only been a member for a few months, but I would agree. I was so excited when I first signed up, and quickly went pro because I saw value. Just a few short months later I see all the silly questions (and responses) and am not so interested anymore. The webinars are all pretty much the same. They are motivating at first, but lack any real content. Running through another example of how to use the BP calculator is not useful to me anymore.
My excitement has turned to a bit of disappointment.
- Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes6y
I've been part of a handful of forums over the last 15 years for different topics/trades.
Half the problem is its "free information"
the other half is, its much easier and requires minimal effort for someone to create a post asking their question then it is for them to read and research for the answer and info.
There is basically no commitment required, no barrier to entry to filter or prescreen any INTERNET searcher from using the BP forum for their own benefit without any sort of contribution monetarily or with thoughts and ideas.
How many posts exist of the non investor type landlord who ran into a problem with a tenant,came here for an immediate option or solution and then disappears to never return?
If everyone had to pay something just to join (or post) even if it was $5, it would have a major impact on improving the quality of the forum and the content within.
For the record, I cancelled my pro membership because I wasnt finding a difference in value between the free membership and the pro one.
I like the ideas of few of had said about the relationships and networking.
- 6yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Peter Tverdov I know how you feel. I felt the same way about a year or more ago. I think it is for a few reasons including a change in demographics as mentioned above. But also, I have noticed that I have changed.
When I first got on here (onto the BiggerPockets website), I dipped my toe in the waters and just read a lot of the forum posts. I was learning a lot at that point. I was fairly new to real estate investing 4 years ago. Then I started to post some things here and there. Then I became emboldened and stared creating original posts. I didn’t get much traction until I reached out to @Scott Trench and I asked him how to get more people to comment on my posts. He responded to my direct message and told me to post something controversial. So I did.
I created the post: Newbies: Eager to Learn or Entitled. That post generated over 100 responses (a lot were mine because I thought that I had to respond to every person who made a post at the time). From this post, I attracted one of my first private money lenders. I also gained some confidence in my ability to hold my own in a real estate conversation.
I went on to explore more of the BiggerPockets website and discovered the networking meetup tab and I started going to meetups. I listened to a ton of the podcasts and I even reached out to some of the podcast guests and took them out to lunch. I really consumed a ton of info and started to build good relationships with other investors on the site.
Then I started hosting meetups myself. Again, at first I didn’t feel really confident hosting a meetup. I think at the time we started the meetup I had flipped probably 10 properties and I probably only owned my commercial office building where my therapy practice was set up, and a hand full of properties that we were barely learning how to use the lease option strategy. My meetup grew to between 20 and 40 people per month and I started to attract a few private money lenders from my meetup group.
Then I was invited to be on the podcast about 2 years ago. After it aired, I got a ton of people asking me to show them the lease option model and I built a list of over 100 possible private money lenders and I was able to raise well over a million dollars in private money to continue to grow my portfolio.
It was about 6 months later that I felt like I wasn’t getting much out of the forums as you described above. There was a lot fewer new ideas then when I first arrived and everything felt new. But then I considered my own personal growth that had taken place and I realized that I had grown from being in real estate kindergarten to being one of the 6th grader, big man on campus, guys. I felt pretty confident until I realized that there was more schooling. I wasn’t even in middle school yet, let along high school. And hanging around elementary school wasn’t going to help me continue to grow at the rate that I wanted to grow.
It was at that time that @Brandon Turner was announcing his Intention Journal and that whoever bought one could be placed into a mastermind group. I was very interested in that idea. So I bought one and was placed into a mastermind group. My growth continued from there. I feel like the mastermind group helped me get through middle school and most of high school. Then I started another mastermind group with people who owned over 100 properties and my grown continued even more to where I feel like I’m ready for real estate college now.
So, I get your feelings of how the BiggerPockets forums feel like they are losing their value. Some of it may be due to less quality posts; but I think even more may be due to your personal growth and you may just need to enter into a new level of learning.
Nowadays, a lot of my posts are geared towards advocating for real estate education programs because there are so many new investors who are told that every education program is a scam. A lot of the people who write things like that are new investors or investors with 5 or less properties. And because I don’t think that a lot of the education programs are a scam, and the one that I did was very helpful to my personal and business growth, I stand up for them and I welcome the angry mob that ensues and I pick them off one by one.
Correcting misinformation is now one of the things I do in the forums frequently in order to help the newer investors who are being led astray by the almost new investors whose mouths are much bigger than their experience. So I feel I have come full circle and I find doing what I’m doing on BiggerPockets is now helping me grow again.
Good luck Peter. I hope you find your next level of growth soon.
- Rental Property Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 412 votes6y
When I first started, I needed questions answered. As I've gained experience, I don't come with questions as often but to help others. Similar with our real estate meetups. At a certain point in the journey I think we all realize the benefits of the networking way outweight the immediate question we may have that we want answered.
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