I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
there is no cap at a 70 ltv. Does your initial LE show that loan was locked? If it wasn’t then that is something that should have been noted when they disclosed, and my guess is they are trying to get closer to the terms on the LE by going to a 70 ltv as that has fewer price adjustments. Fannie publishes what they charge to price in adjustments based on different loan factors if you google fnma llpa it will come up.
The only other reasons I could think of is 1. If going to 75 ltv and additional price adjusters were just enough to make it the loan exceed fnma points and fees test so they have to limit to 70 to meet that requirement. 2 It was a Dti issue and they couldn’t approve you for a higher loan, but presume if that was the case they would have mentioned either reason before.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
When did you buy this property?
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Hey Jeff,
When was the property purchased? Did you do any renovations? Are you working with a local bank/CU (they have overlays on guidelines)?
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Hey Jeff,
When was the property purchased? Did you do any renovations? Are you working with a local bank/CU (they have overlays on guidelines)?
Property purchased late 2018, so seasoning is not an issue.
yes renovations were done sone time ago.
The lender is involved in BP, so I’ll leave it at that.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
When did you buy this property?
2018
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
When did you buy this property?
2018
Hmm...well, not really sure as Fannie/Freddie will both allow up to 75% cash out for a single family (70% for 2-4 units). 75% is a higher cost loan then 70% but that should be known upfront. It is potentially possible that a scenario would not get automated approval through Fannie's automated system call Desktop Underwriter (DU/DO) at 75% but would at 70% but again if that was the case it should be explained that way.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Sounds like a quirky overlay with the blender that you are using. have you looked into DSCR options?
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
When did you buy this property?
2018
Hmm...well, not really sure as Fannie/Freddie will both allow up to 75% cash out for a single family (70% for 2-4 units). 75% is a higher cost loan then 70% but that should be known upfront. It is potentially possible that a scenario would not get automated approval through Fannie's automated system call Desktop Underwriter (DU/DO) at 75% but would at 70% but again if that was the case it should be explained that way.
Agreed. She stated that Fannie Mae capped this to a lower than 75% LTV. She states there is no option for 75% even with points. I am confused by this.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Sounds like a quirky overlay with the blender that you are using. have you looked into DSCR options?
Yes, I've looked at DSCR. This was much "cheaper", but frustrating.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Sounds like a quirky overlay with the blender that you are using. have you looked into DSCR options?
Yes, I've looked at DSCR. This was much "cheaper", but frustrating.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Sounds like a quirky overlay with the blender that you are using. have you looked into DSCR options?
Yes, I've looked at DSCR. This was much "cheaper", but frustrating.
Devin- I’d be interested in talking with you about future options.
@Jeff P. have you tried
Kristopher Natschke?
@Jeff P. have you tried
Kristopher Natschke?
Cap is usually 500k in cashout . What is the scneario looking like ?
there is no cap at a 70 ltv. Does your initial LE show that loan was locked? If it wasn’t then that is something that should have been noted when they disclosed, and my guess is they are trying to get closer to the terms on the LE by going to a 70 ltv as that has fewer price adjustments. Fannie publishes what they charge to price in adjustments based on different loan factors if you google fnma llpa it will come up.
The only other reasons I could think of is 1. If going to 75 ltv and additional price adjusters were just enough to make it the loan exceed fnma points and fees test so they have to limit to 70 to meet that requirement. 2 It was a Dti issue and they couldn’t approve you for a higher loan, but presume if that was the case they would have mentioned either reason before.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Can only be 2 reasons well 3 if we count incompetence by the loan officer.
1. Compensating factors ie. weaker credit score, weaker reserves, weaker DTI
2. Lender overlays - Some lenders will only write loans up to 70% for "risk" reasons and decrease the likelihood they would have to buy the loan back from fannie or freddie.
3. Loan officer incompetence - sounds like they quoted you on 75% LTV but once the underwriters got a hold of it, they restructured.
Without having the convo myself, Id be willing to bet its a combo of 2 and 3
there is no cap at a 70 ltv. Does your initial LE show that loan was locked? If it wasn’t then that is something that should have been noted when they disclosed, and my guess is they are trying to get closer to the terms on the LE by going to a 70 ltv as that has fewer price adjustments. Fannie publishes what they charge to price in adjustments based on different loan factors if you google fnma llpa it will come up.
The only other reasons I could think of is 1. If going to 75 ltv and additional price adjusters were just enough to make it the loan exceed fnma points and fees test so they have to limit to 70 to meet that requirement. 2 It was a Dti issue and they couldn’t approve you for a higher loan, but presume if that was the case they would have mentioned either reason before.
Thanks for the insight! Doubt it is DTI, I was well in the clear. Maybe the FNMA test is the reason. She supposedly reached out to her "team" and is awaiting response. It has been over 48 hours, so it seems silly to me.
Cap is usually 500k in cashout . What is the scneario looking like ?
Still in limbo
I'd suggest checking with a few more lenders to see if they have the same restrictions or if you can find a better deal.
Sometimes, different lenders have different rules or ways of doing things, so it might be worth shopping around a bit. Also, maybe try asking the lender why this wasn't brought up earlier. It could give you some clarity on the situation.
This has been the longest cash out refi on an investment property in the history of mankind. I'm resisting starting over.
That does sound frustrating. It's odd that the lender didn't mention the cap on the amount earlier. It's possible there are Fannie Mae requirements in play, but it's always a good idea to double-check with a different lender or do some independent research to verify. If you're set on maximizing your cash-out this time around, it might be worth exploring other options or negotiating with your current lender if possible.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Can only be 2 reasons well 3 if we count incompetence by the loan officer.
1. Compensating factors ie. weaker credit score, weaker reserves, weaker DTI
2. Lender overlays - Some lenders will only write loans up to 70% for "risk" reasons and decrease the likelihood they would have to buy the loan back from fannie or freddie.
3. Loan officer incompetence - sounds like they quoted you on 75% LTV but once the underwriters got a hold of it, they restructured.
Without having the convo myself, Id be willing to bet its a combo of 2 and 3
Unfortunately, I don't see it being #1 or #2.
I'm in really good shape on #1.
If it is #2, there was more than enough time to correct my expectations.
#3... Well she sent me the final estimate @70% and said nothing. It was Friday evening. We were trying to get this closed by Feb 29. She requested it signed by Sunday so processing could resume asap Monday morning. Had she given me a heads up early Friday, and maybe accompanied the 70% with the 75%, then discussions could've occurred. Instead, it was slipped in without explanation as if I wouldn't notice??
I'm leaning towards #3. There have been other hiccups along the pathway.
You'd be disappointed if you knew the company.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Can only be 2 reasons well 3 if we count incompetence by the loan officer.
1. Compensating factors ie. weaker credit score, weaker reserves, weaker DTI
2. Lender overlays - Some lenders will only write loans up to 70% for "risk" reasons and decrease the likelihood they would have to buy the loan back from fannie or freddie.
3. Loan officer incompetence - sounds like they quoted you on 75% LTV but once the underwriters got a hold of it, they restructured.
Without having the convo myself, Id be willing to bet its a combo of 2 and 3
Unfortunately, I don't see it being #1 or #2.
I'm in really good shape on #1.
If it is #2, there was more than enough time to correct my expectations.
#3... Well she sent me the final estimate @70% and said nothing. It was Friday evening. We were trying to get this closed by Feb 29. She requested it signed by Sunday so processing could resume asap Monday morning. Had she given me a heads up early Friday, and maybe accompanied the 70% with the 75%, then discussions could've occurred. Instead, it was slipped in without explanation as if I wouldn't notice??
I'm leaning towards #3. There have been other hiccups along the pathway.
You'd be disappointed if you knew the company.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
I will try to keep this brief.
I have 100% equity in a single-family rental outside of Detroit Michigan. I am in the process of doing a cash out refi. The house appraised for a little more than what I expected. The lender's representative and I had spoken about 75% LTV all during this scenario.
Now yesterday, I was surprised with a lender estimate that was at 70% LTV. When I requested she run the numbers at 75% LTV, she then told me that there was a cap on the amount I could get (amounts to under 75%), and I would also have to pay points for that loan (75% LTV scenarios were at 0 points). This is several thousand dollars less than I would've gotten at the full 75% LTV, but she claims it is a Fannie Mae requirement?
Why this wasn’t disclosed long ago, I have no idea. Is she correct in saying this? The difference in the appraised amount versus the expected amount was not gigantic. However, I don’t intend on refinancing this property again - possibly ever. So I would prefer to pull all cash out that I can this time.
TIA for opinions/info.
Thanks Andrew. I will definitely keep you in mind when my next opportunity arises.