What I wish Pace Morby would have told me

What I wish Pace Morby would have told me

Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes

Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

How things started:

  • 30 day close
  • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
  • $50,000 rehab costs
  • Interest rate: 3.125%

When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

But guess what we closed!!

How things ended:

  • 30 day close
  • $23,000 in closing costs
  • $50,000 rehab costs
  • Interest rate: 3.125%

Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

  • Purchase price: $246,000
  • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
  • ARV: $380,000
  • Rehab costs: $50,000
  • All-in costs: $73,000
  • Gross rent: $2600/month
  • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
  • ROI: 18.90%

Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

Your real estate friend,

Zack McDonough

28Reply
612 views

Most Popular Reply

Wholesaler · Arnold, MO · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 183 votes
3y

This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.

See this reply in the discussion

71 Replies

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  • Rental Property Investor · Ontario, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 24 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

    One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

    Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

    You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

    So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

    How things started:

    • 30 day close
    • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

    Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

    First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

    Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

    So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

    As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

    Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

    When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

    Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

    The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

    But guess what we closed!!

    How things ended:

    • 30 day close
    • $23,000 in closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

    It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%

    Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

    Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

    Your real estate friend,

    Zack McDonough


     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 

    • Flipper/Rehabber · Bloomfield CT · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 408 votes
      1y

      @Scott Gaspar none of the gurus participate on bigger pockets as they might be discovered 

    • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 735 votes
      1y
      Quote from @James McGovern:

      @Scott Gaspar none of the gurus participate on bigger pockets as they might be discovered 


       Truth. It's like disinfectant. 

  • Wholesaler · Arnold, MO · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 183 votes
    3y

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.

  • Lender · Denton, TX · Member since 2023 · 349 posts · 80 votes
    3y

    I think you had a bad lender. What type of loan was it again? And why did it take 60 days or so to get the loan closed?

    Also, why did it take so long to send you a closing disclosure? It sounds like the bank did an awful job

  • Real Estate Agent · WA · Member since 2021 · 254 posts · 173 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

    One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

    Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

    You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

    So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

    How things started:

    • 30 day close
    • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

    Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

    First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

    Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

    So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

    As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

    Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

    When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

    Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

    The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

    But guess what we closed!!

    How things ended:

    • 30 day close
    • $23,000 in closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

    It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%

    Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

    Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

    Your real estate friend,

    Zack McDonough


     I found this extremely informational and helpful. I bought his book but haven't yet had the courage to go forward with a subto deal. Thank you for shining light on what people don't want to talk about! 

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


    Exactly! HUGE difference. A "subject to " transaction BYPASSES loan approval process and lender action. Assumption is often as involved as obtaining a new loan. Obviously, this was well worth it to obtain a 3.125% interest rate. But let's NOT confuse an ASSUMPTION of a VA loan that has a forbearance agreement in place and back interest and fees due with a subject to transaction. They are two different breeds of animal.

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

    One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

    Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

    You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

    So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

    How things started:

    • 30 day close
    • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

    Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

    First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

    Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

    So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

    As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

    Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

    When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

    Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

    The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

    But guess what we closed!!

    How things ended:

    • 30 day close
    • $23,000 in closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

    It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%

    Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

    Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

    Your real estate friend,

    Zack McDonough


     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 


     Not to my knowledge

  • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.

  • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Dennis Muno:

    I think you had a bad lender. What type of loan was it again? And why did it take 60 days or so to get the loan closed?

    Also, why did it take so long to send you a closing disclosure? It sounds like the bank did an awful job


    Those are some great questions. It was VA. Carrington Mortgage was dragging their feet throughout the whole transaction.

  • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


    Exactly! HUGE difference. A "subject to " transaction BYPASSES loan approval process and lender action. Assumption is often as involved as obtaining a new loan. Obviously, this was well worth it to obtain a 3.125% interest rate. But let's NOT confuse an ASSUMPTION of a VA loan that has a forbearance agreement in place and back interest and fees due with a subject to transaction. They are two different breeds of animal.


     I may be ignorant but I see those examples as two versions of sub to. The assumption being the most sophisticated of the two. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Ontario, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 24 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


    In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research

  • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


    In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research


     For this assumption, the loan still stayed in the seller's name. I was added to the loan as well, but the lender disclosures were clear that the seller was still on the hook if we defaulted.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Don Konipol:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


    Exactly! HUGE difference. A "subject to " transaction BYPASSES loan approval process and lender action. Assumption is often as involved as obtaining a new loan. Obviously, this was well worth it to obtain a 3.125% interest rate. But let's NOT confuse an ASSUMPTION of a VA loan that has a forbearance agreement in place and back interest and fees due with a subject to transaction. They are two different breeds of animal.


     I may be ignorant but I see those examples as two versions of sub to. The assumption being the most sophisticated of the two. 

    No they’re not. In an assumption, the person or entity assuming the loan also assumes LIABILITY and an assumption must be okayed by the lender.  A subject to entails no liability on the part of the person acquiring the property with a subject to loan and no approval by the lender.  Far different consequences for each.  
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 16 posts · 0 votes
    3y

    Hi Zac,

    Thanks a lot for sharing this with us. Can I know please if the cashflow will go to the seller or to the buyer? 

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 16 posts · 0 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

    One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

    Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

    You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

    So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

    How things started:

    • 30 day close
    • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

    Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

    First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

    Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

    So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

    As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

    Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

    When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

    Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

    The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

    But guess what we closed!!

    How things ended:

    • 30 day close
    • $23,000 in closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

    It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%

    Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

    Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

    Your real estate friend,

    Zack McDonough



    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%
    I am confused :) Why the owner did not pay the mortgage by himself, it is not that much to push him to sell his house by Sub-to strategy. I really don't understand the logic especially since the rent will cover the mortgage payment right? So what is the point then? Will the seller get the cash flow or not? Also, what benefit will you get from purchasing this house if the cash flow will go to the seller? Can you please explain the benefits of this strategy for you and for the seller? Thanks!



      ?


    • Lender · Denton, TX · Member since 2023 · 349 posts · 80 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
      Quote from @Dennis Muno:

      I think you had a bad lender. What type of loan was it again? And why did it take 60 days or so to get the loan closed?

      Also, why did it take so long to send you a closing disclosure? It sounds like the bank did an awful job


      Those are some great questions. It was VA. Carrington Mortgage was dragging their feet throughout the whole transaction.


       I have not heard good things about Carrington Mortgage's services tbh

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      3y
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
      Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
      Quote from @Vince Mayer:

      This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


       Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


      In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research


       For this assumption, the loan still stayed in the seller's name. I was added to the loan as well, but the lender disclosures were clear that the seller was still on the hook if we defaulted.

      @Don Konipol   maybe Don has seen this  but I have never seen an assumption where the seller stays on the loan and you the buyer goes on the loan in as co borrowers.. I wonder if there is some confusion some where.  But either way seems like a nice deal for you.

    • Don KonipolBusiness Member
      Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
      3y
      Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
      Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
      Quote from @Vince Mayer:

      This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


       Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


      In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research


       For this assumption, the loan still stayed in the seller's name. I was added to the loan as well, but the lender disclosures were clear that the seller was still on the hook if we defaulted.

      @Don Konipol   maybe Don has seen this  but I have never seen an assumption where the seller stays on the loan and you the buyer goes on the loan in as co borrowers.. I wonder if there is some confusion some where.  But either way seems like a nice deal for you.

      Assumption without release of liability. I think this was done by FHA about 40 years ago. Amazing what comes back once the interest rate environment changes. 
      Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
    • Real Estate Agent · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2021 · 166 posts · 116 votes
      3y

      Great write-up, and glad you got it closed! Working with lenders (or anyone for that matter) that just don't care about the transaction as a whole is incredibly frustrating. How did you come across this lead, I saw you mentioned bringing it current, were they in pre-forclosure?

    • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Blake Novotney:

      Great write-up, and glad you got it closed! Working with lenders (or anyone for that matter) that just don't care about the transaction as a whole is incredibly frustrating. How did you come across this lead, I saw you mentioned bringing it current, were they in pre-forclosure?


       This was through FB!! Building connections!! 

      They had a forbearance agreement with the bank :(

    • Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Hawazin Alabbasi:
      Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

      Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

      One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

      Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

      You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

      So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

      How things started:

      • 30 day close
      • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
      • $50,000 rehab costs
      • Interest rate: 3.125%

      When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

      Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

      First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

      Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

      So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

      As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

      Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

      When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

      Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

      The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

      But guess what we closed!!

      How things ended:

      • 30 day close
      • $23,000 in closing costs
      • $50,000 rehab costs
      • Interest rate: 3.125%

      Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

      It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

      • Purchase price: $246,000
      • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
      • ARV: $380,000
      • Rehab costs: $50,000
      • All-in costs: $73,000
      • Gross rent: $2600/month
      • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
      • ROI: 18.90%

      Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

      Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

      Your real estate friend,

      Zack McDonough



      • Purchase price: $246,000
      • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
      • ARV: $380,000
      • Rehab costs: $50,000
      • All-in costs: $73,000
      • Gross rent: $2600/month
      • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
      • ROI: 18.90%
      I am confused :) Why the owner did not pay the mortgage by himself, it is not that much to push him to sell his house by Sub-to strategy. I really don't understand the logic especially since the rent will cover the mortgage payment right? So what is the point then? Will the seller get the cash flow or not? Also, what benefit will you get from purchasing this house if the cash flow will go to the seller? Can you please explain the benefits of this strategy for you and for the seller? Thanks!



        ?



         So the house needed major cosmetic work. Seller needed out. Agreement to subto. She (seller) stays on the loan. Deeds me the house. I am made a co-borrower with her. Once her hubby passed, she couldn't afford the mortgage and stay in the house. 

        She gets the liability without reward. I get liability with reward (cashflow). Does that answer your questions?

      • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 16 posts · 0 votes
        3y

        I got an idea 😊, So, you will pay the monthly mortgage instead of her, right? Will you pay the mortgage directly, or through her? Will you continue the payment until the mortgage period ends according to her contract with them, or do you plan to pay off the mortgage later?  I am asking to know what the best step I take if I get a SUB TO deal. Did the mortgage know about the deal, or they don’t care?

      • Don KonipolBusiness Member
        Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
        3y
        Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Vince Mayer:

        This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


         Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


        In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research


         For this assumption, the loan still stayed in the seller's name. I was added to the loan as well, but the lender disclosures were clear that the seller was still on the hook if we defaulted.

        @Don Konipol   maybe Don has seen this  but I have never seen an assumption where the seller stays on the loan and you the buyer goes on the loan in as co borrowers.. I wonder if there is some confusion some where.  But either way seems like a nice deal for you.


         Jay, a thought occurred to me.  This was probably a subject to but the buyer executed a personal guarantee with the SELLER, not the lender. AKA wrap

        Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
      • Real Estate Agent · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2021 · 166 posts · 116 votes
        3y
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Blake Novotney:

        Great write-up, and glad you got it closed! Working with lenders (or anyone for that matter) that just don't care about the transaction as a whole is incredibly frustrating. How did you come across this lead, I saw you mentioned bringing it current, were they in pre-forclosure?


         This was through FB!! Building connections!! 

        They had a forbearance agreement with the bank :(


         I love FB, I feel like there is so much gold on there for real estate leads!

      • General Contractor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2016 · 193 posts · 79 votes
        3y
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Vince Mayer:

        This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


         Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


        WOW, you could have save a lot of time and headaches, not to mention lost sleep if you had followed Pace's methods. You did not even need to talked to the bank. The seller should have been able to provide the mortgage information ie: latest statements and property tax bills (I would have wanted to look at at leasts the last 6 months). Then got all the utility bills and any other expense information together to make sure they are current and any contractors and vendors had been paid. The Title company and a GOOD transaction coordinator should handle the rest. My take...

      • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
        3y
        Quote from @Don Konipol:
        Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
        Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
        Quote from @Vince Mayer:

        This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


         Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


        In a sub2 the loan stays in the sellers name, in an assumption the loan is changed to the buyers name. Typically only VA, FHA, and USDA loans are assumable, from my research


         For this assumption, the loan still stayed in the seller's name. I was added to the loan as well, but the lender disclosures were clear that the seller was still on the hook if we defaulted.

        @Don Konipol   maybe Don has seen this  but I have never seen an assumption where the seller stays on the loan and you the buyer goes on the loan in as co borrowers.. I wonder if there is some confusion some where.  But either way seems like a nice deal for you.

        Assumption without release of liability. I think this was done by FHA about 40 years ago. Amazing what comes back once the interest rate environment changes. 

        Your Comment: "We had to bring her mortgage current."

        It sounds more like a formalized loan modification, putting a co-borrower on the loan, bringing the loan current, to take it out of pre-foreclosure status. She probably didn't qualify on her own.


        Definitely not a Subject To and not an Assumption. 

        That's the danger of using sophisticated techniques when not properly trained. When it looks like a duck but you buy a rattlesnake. Now what do you do? Pretty serious mistake and the troubles that are to follow. What if the seller holds you hostage for your profits, won't cooperate and you are stuck with a partner you didn't want? Plus tax issues, plus occupancy, you can't evict her she is still on title and on the loan, you can't sell unless she is willing to sell and available to sign, if she dies you have an inherited partner, plus . . .

        Once the stress is relieved, then begins the greed

        Although this isn't a Subject To, for the lurkers, 

        Here's a post I did on Subject To that may help avoid some problems

        Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties

        https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1060320-using-subject-to-to-get-free-properties-a-quick-guideline

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