Being sued over security deposit by tenant who never moved in.

Being sued over security deposit by tenant who never moved in.

Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes

Hello Bigger Pockets!

My wife and I are looking for a bit of legal advice. We recently moved to the Seattle area from Texas with our 2 month old daughter, leaving behind three rental properties, two long-term and one Airbnb. During the move in Nov./Dec. we started showing our primary residence to a lady whose story kept changing. In the beginning it was just her and daughter moving in. Then it was her and ex-husband (interesting situation). Then her + more children + pitbull. We wanted everyone moving in to be documented, as well as a standard deposit fee for the animal but she kept asking we change the contract in different ways and would not sign it after having agreed verbally and via email to move in and pay security deposit. This is after we told her we could take the house off of the market and hold the house for her an extra month (she couldn't move in right away). Normally, we wouldn't have dealt with such a sketchy situation except for it was the dead of winter and we weren't getting many showings or applications. We are a young couple (early 30s), have mortgages on every property, and don't have the capital to let houses sit empty for months and her initial pitch as a single mom with one child was preferable to us.

Eventually, even though we use a standard lease agreement, the lady didn't want to sign the contract and we mutually decided to go our separate ways a couple days before the move in date. This is after weeks of having it off the market and a month letting it sit empty waiting for her. We felt totally jerked around from November of last year (2018) to March of this year and got screwed in the end but were fine to be done with her as more and more unsavory things were uncovered. Of course, she immediately wanted her security deposit back even after we informed her that it was to hold the property for her and she sent the money in understanding of this. After reminding her of this, she said she hadn't signed anything agreeing to have the security deposit with held if she didn't move in and that after 30 days she would file suit. We were certain she was bluffing and wouldn't get a lawyer involved for $1500 especially after she had agreed to pay the security deposit and sent the money of her own accord. We did not feel it fair to give her the money back as it cost us the monthly mortgage payment and having it off of the market, unable to get another prospective tenant.

Today, we received a letter from attornerys at law in Texas telling us to immediately pay three times the amount according to Sec. 92.109. in the next ten days or be subject to higher costs and penalties as we are deemed "bad faith" landlords. It also states that if it were to go to court, we would have to pay HER attorney fees of $10,000+ lien on the house etc. A fellow RE investor/friend still doesn't believe she has a case and reminded me that these letters are free to people to send and that folks can sue anything and anyone, it doesn't necessarily mean they have a case. We still have all of our correspondences but don't know the law well enough to know if she has a case or not. Any advice from someone who knows the law (especially TX RE law) or who has been sued in like kind would be very happily welcomed! This has already been an expensive lesson learned from us, just don't want it to get more expensive. SO GLAD we have a community like this one to get advice from other seasoned investors! 

Robert Wood

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Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 888 posts · 759 votes
7y

Wow.  A bunch of not-Texas, non-lawyer talk. YMMV.

As a lawyer licensed in Texas.... meh.  

More specifically, the demand letter is reasonably accurate as to that statute.  Any attorney would take the case, because the statute allows for recovery of attorney's fees (meaning, you would pay).  Their case has lots of hair to shave before they can win.  The letter presumes a landlord-tenant relationship.  Contract formation is a problem.  They never signed, according to your post.  They never took possession.  No offer was accepted.  A counter offer is considered a rejection of the initial offer and cannot be accepted.  The deposit might be termed "consideration".  A better characterization would be "option fee".  They bought an option to lease on terms, yet to be settled.  No lease, then that statute doesn't apply, and this becomes a breach of contract case, not a landlord-tenant case.

That's the law.  From a business POV, you stopped running these properties like a business the minute you allowed your personal situation to deviate your business practices from normal operations.  Either prepare to fund a full civil litigation defense or cut check as final settlement (hire a lawyer for either).  If you roll over and just cut a check, they can still come at you unless you get a final, global settlement.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    well that's called a saber rattler letter.. big bluff 95% of the time guarantee attorney wont work on contingency so this lady / tenant would have to pay to sue you.. this stuff is handled in small claims usually.

    and your a long way from then winning a judgement.. if it was me I would just not respond.

    unless they actually sue you.. or if your really nervous about it send the 1500 back..

    you could talk to a PM probably for free that would know this off the top of their head .. 

    short of that maybe an attorney would give you a free hour.

  • Nashville, TN · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    I agree with Jay.  Even though there is no written agreement, you still have a verbal contract.  The judge is going to believe you that the deposit is non-refundable.  Why else would she give you the money?

    You might look into pre-paid legal if you are losing sleep over this.

  • Nashville, TN · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    7y
  • Rental Property Investor · TX · Member since 2019 · 303 posts · 364 votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood

    You have a big problem. You've opened yourself up to liability by not having a signed document / agreement with regard to the $1,500.

    The potential tenant is claiming that she did not sign anything agreeing to allow you to keep the "deposit" if she failed to move in. She can claim that the money was pre-paid rental deposit, which in my state, MUST be returned within 15 days unless there is damage to your property. If you have email correspondence that CLEARLY documents that you informed her, and she knew, that the payment was non-refundable if she did not move in, then you could probably prevail in court.

    Even if you are sued, you would have court costs and attorney costs (and travel costs), which you might be able to pin on her if you prevail, but would likely never be able to collect, even with a judgment.

    So it's decision time: If you can find that correspondence, then I would keep the deposit and ignore the demand letter. If you cannot find where she was clearly told that the deposit was merely to HOLD the unit and was NON-REFUNDABLE, then you are unlikely to prevail, and it would be wise to refund the entire $1,500 (via check) and call this is a cheap lesson.

    If you refund the $1,500, you could still be sued, however no attorney is going to take her case since you acted in good-faith by refunding the money in full (albeit delayed.) If I were her attorney... I would ask hr for emails/texts and written docs. If I think think that you never communicated that the funds were non-refundable, if I found out that you live in Seattle, that you own 3 rental properties (in your personal name?) and that you would have to travel to TX for mediation & court, you bet I would file a claim for my client.

    I am not attorney and this is not legal advice... It's just what I would do.

  • Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 182 posts · 115 votes
    7y

    EH KEEP THE MONEY... WORST THING SHE CAN DO IS TAKE YOU TO COURT, WIN, GET A JUDGEMENT... ONCE SHE GETS A JUDGEMENT AGAINST YOU, HOW IS SHE GOING TO COLLECT? AND SO ON... SOMETIMES YOU DONT HAVE TO CARE. OH BTW--- SHE HAS TO SERVE YOU AS WELL MOST LIKELY... GOING TO BE HARD TO SERVE YOU IF U ARE IN SEATLE. LOL. SLEEP WELL. MOVE ON. 

  • Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 888 posts · 759 votes
    7y

    Wow.  A bunch of not-Texas, non-lawyer talk. YMMV.

    As a lawyer licensed in Texas.... meh.  

    More specifically, the demand letter is reasonably accurate as to that statute.  Any attorney would take the case, because the statute allows for recovery of attorney's fees (meaning, you would pay).  Their case has lots of hair to shave before they can win.  The letter presumes a landlord-tenant relationship.  Contract formation is a problem.  They never signed, according to your post.  They never took possession.  No offer was accepted.  A counter offer is considered a rejection of the initial offer and cannot be accepted.  The deposit might be termed "consideration".  A better characterization would be "option fee".  They bought an option to lease on terms, yet to be settled.  No lease, then that statute doesn't apply, and this becomes a breach of contract case, not a landlord-tenant case.

    That's the law.  From a business POV, you stopped running these properties like a business the minute you allowed your personal situation to deviate your business practices from normal operations.  Either prepare to fund a full civil litigation defense or cut check as final settlement (hire a lawyer for either).  If you roll over and just cut a check, they can still come at you unless you get a final, global settlement.

  • Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 888 posts · 759 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    OH BTW--- SHE HAS TO SERVE YOU AS WELL MOST LIKELY... GOING TO BE HARD TO SERVE YOU IF U ARE IN SEATLE. LOL. SLEEP WELL. MOVE ON. 

     I see "God complex" sets in early.  Service of process is $75-125 in most jurisdictions.  I can hire a process server to serve anyone in the USA for that, and in countries who signed the Geneva Convention.  Just because a party is a few states away doesn't make them untouchable.  

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Robert Wood:

    Hello Bigger Pockets!

    We wanted everyone moving in to be documented, as well as a standard deposit fee ..

    Of course, she immediately wanted her security deposit back even after we informed her that it was to hold the property for her and she sent the money in understanding of this. 

     FYI, there is a huge difference between a deposit and a fee.  A deposit fee?  

    For future reference, get a holding fee and utilize a holding agreement.  It will spell out that it is forfeited if they don't move forward by or on the end date.  Mine convert into damage deposit monies at the time of the lease signing and possession.

    Utilize the same with animals.  There may be an animal deposit (refundable) and or an animal fee (not refundable).

    A deposit by definition is refundable.  Sorry you are facing this.  I am with the others and wouldn't sweat it too much.  Just change your language in the future.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerel Ehlert:

    Wow.  A bunch of not-Texas, non-lawyer talk. YMMV.

    As a lawyer licensed in Texas.... meh.  

    More specifically, the demand letter is reasonably accurate as to that statute.  Any attorney would take the case, because the statute allows for recovery of attorney's fees (meaning, you would pay).  Their case has lots of hair to shave before they can win.  The letter presumes a landlord-tenant relationship.  Contract formation is a problem.  They never signed, according to your post.  They never took possession.  No offer was accepted.  A counter offer is considered a rejection of the initial offer and cannot be accepted.  The deposit might be termed "consideration".  A better characterization would be "option fee".  They bought an option to lease on terms, yet to be settled.  No lease, then that statute doesn't apply, and this becomes a breach of contract case, not a landlord-tenant case.

    That's the law.  From a business POV, you stopped running these properties like a business the minute you allowed your personal situation to deviate your business practices from normal operations.  Either prepare to fund a full civil litigation defense or cut check as final settlement (hire a lawyer for either).  If you roll over and just cut a check, they can still come at you unless you get a final, global settlement.

     I hear ya on the non lawyer talk.. however being the recipient of a few of these over the course of multiple decades .. a lot of folks not familiar with the law .. jump from letter to hey I am being sued.. LOL and I am going to lose.. 

    takes a lot to get a case to trial..  not sure what the statistic is but I bet its hugely swayed to settle before trial.. 

    I don't landlord anymore.. but when I did deposits were always the source of irritation and squabbles..   

    But agree if the OP is going to just pay them back the 1500 which is what I would probably do if they pushed this.. then a full release of claims should be signed prior to handing over the dough..  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Robert Wood:

    Hello Bigger Pockets!

    We wanted everyone moving in to be documented, as well as a standard deposit fee ..

    Of course, she immediately wanted her security deposit back even after we informed her that it was to hold the property for her and she sent the money in understanding of this. 

     FYI, there is a huge difference between a deposit and a fee.  A deposit fee?  

    For future reference, get a holding fee and utilize a holding agreement.  It will spell out that it is forfeited if they don't move forward by or on the end date.  Mine convert into damage deposit monies at the time of the lease signing and possession.

    Utilize the same with animals.  There may be an animal deposit (refundable) and or an animal fee (not refundable).

    A deposit by definition is refundable.  Sorry you are facing this.  I am with the others and wouldn't sweat it too much.  Just change your language in the future.

    out in the mid west deep south most of the bigger landlords I know out there all take NON Refundable deposits up front they never take deposits that are to be refunded.. its usually 500 to 1000 and always non refundable.. tenant knows they are not getting it back so there are no squabbles at the end of the term.  Landlord knows they will spend at least that much turning the unit..  works well in renter dominated markets were the tenant is used to these types of things.

  • Steve RozenbergPro Member
    Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood

    I am definitely not a lawyer, but I do know that security deposit issues are the number one reason landlords are sued. I would recommend that you create a detailed timeline of events of exactly what happened and have the facts backed up. Also show what your policies and procedures are for showing and renting your properties out. If you do not have one then I would suggest this is the time to create this. 

    You definitely need to answer the legal issue or you will have much bigger fines to pay. 

    I do know a very good real estate lawyer here in Texas, Happy to connect you with them to atleast get his opinion on the matter so you are hearing it from a legal perspective not peoples opinions.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Personally, I do believe you have a potential problem on your hands based on Texas law. As Jerel stated, whether or not she is considered a tenant is debatable.  A deposit hold agreement would have spelled out the situation and as a learning lesson should always be used with a delayed mov in 

    -Texas law requires you to account for the deposit in writing within 30 days of move out and being provided a forwarding address.  Based on your response, I am assuming you did not account for the deposit.  Did she provide you with a forwarding address ? I would send an accounting immediately now that you have a contact address if you choose to do so

    -So you agreed to hold for another month based on a verbal agreement but no lease agreement was signed and no specific terms were agreed upon.  So what are your deductions from the deposit?  The fact you had to make another mortgage payment matters not at all.  The only deduction I could possibly justify to myself are any loss of rent from the agreed upon delayed start date and the day a new tenant moved in

    - I would attempt to negotiate the return of the full $1500 deposit as an agreed settlement as IMO losing 3x the deposit and attorney's fees are a real possibility

    -Lastly, those who have indicated that any judgement against would be difficult to collect is absolutely NOT true.  While Texas may be the most difficult state to collect, this lady WILL collect.  You own 3 non-exempt properties in Texas and she will be able to attach and collect that judgement upon the sale of any of those or could even possibly force the sale(not likely)

    -Again, I would offer a settlement of the full deposit as the risk is high IMO

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y

    Tenant seems to fit a particular profile in a lot of ways.

    And you can bet tenants personal life dealings have always been, are, and always will fit this same profile.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Attorney, CPA, Broker & Author · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 488 votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood.  @Greg H. gives good advice.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood I suggest you hire a property manager as it’s pretty clear you have no business self managing. Why would this situation even arise? You let her drag it out for 5 months? You need a signed lease before you give her keys. All of this headache for 1500 bucks?

  • Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Jerel Ehlert

    @Jerel Ehlert

    @Jerel Ehlert @Steve Rozenberg @Greg H.

    Thank you very much all who have responded! 

    Here is the email (from my wife to prospective tenant) from January 30th stating that the moneys would be non-refundable as a deposit and used as security deposit if she did go through with her end of the bargain and move in March 1st. She delayed until February 8th and we were going to re-list the property when she decided to send the money. She sent in $500 dollar increments 3x. Why else would she send the money unless she understood what it was for? Then she changed over our electric and water and when she decided not to move back in we had a heck of a time getting it changed back over. The damages are that we did not receive any money after her very clear verbal agreement and her actions were to move into the house including hiring a moving truck and terminating her current lease. We did not get a tenant for the house until March 26th 2019, essentially two months later. ESSENTIALLY, my question is this, if someone sends money before she decides to sign anything, having been fully informed that it is non-refundable should she decide NOT to move-in, why can she come back at me for thousands of dollars? I will meet with a few lawyers Monday but would love to speak with your friend @Steve Rozenberg and would like to know if it changes anyone's opinion that she had full knowledge that this was a non-refundable deposit to hold the property for her delayed move in. 

    Here is her notification that she would not be moving in or signing the lease.. 

    @Caleb Heimsoth I suppose that was an exciting comment for you to make but not super helpful on this end. When you have a kid in the NICU for weeks while going back and forth to Washington to take a job so you can go down to one income so that wife can stay home with unwell child HMU. I just want out of the rat race someday and knew I wouldn't get it perfect the first try. 

    Thank you all who have been helpful!

  • Steve RozenbergPro Member
    Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood

    I see your in sugarland. The attorney I know is in the woodlands and is big part of NARPM and very well versed. I agree with @Greg H... you may have a problem. I would stop all communication with the tenant and get legal counsel

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Robert Wood:

    @Jerel Ehlert

    @Jerel Ehlert

    @Jerel Ehlert @Steve Rozenberg @Greg H.

    Thank you very much all who have responded! 

    Here is the email (from my wife to prospective tenant) from January 30th stating that the moneys would be non-refundable as a deposit and used as security deposit if she did go through with her end of the bargain and move in March 1st. She delayed until February 8th and we were going to re-list the property when she decided to send the money. She sent in $500 dollar increments 3x. Why else would she send the money unless she understood what it was for? Then she changed over our electric and water and when she decided not to move back in we had a heck of a time getting it changed back over. The damages are that we did not receive any money after her very clear verbal agreement and her actions were to move into the house including hiring a moving truck and terminating her current lease. We did not get a tenant for the house until March 26th 2019, essentially two months later. ESSENTIALLY, my question is this, if someone sends money before she decides to sign anything, having been fully informed that it is non-refundable should she decide NOT to move-in, why can she come back at me for thousands of dollars? I will meet with a few lawyers Monday but would love to speak with your friend @Steve Rozenberg and would like to know if it changes anyone's opinion that she had full knowledge that this was a non-refundable deposit to hold the property for her delayed move in. 

    Here is her notification that she would not be moving in or signing the lease.. 

    @Caleb Heimsoth I suppose that was an exciting comment for you to make but not super helpful on this end. When you have a kid in the NICU for weeks while going back and forth to Washington to take a job so you can go down to one income so that wife can stay home with unwell child HMU. I just want out of the rat race someday and knew I wouldn't get it perfect the first try. 

    Thank you all who have been helpful!

    If you have all that going on, why would you continue to try to self manage? A good property manager makes your life easier and gives you your time back.   They also have processes in place so this doesn’t happen 

  • Steve RozenbergPro Member
    Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    Agreed.. 1 out of 3 Landlords are in a lawsuit every year for breaking laws they don’t even know existed

    IRS, fair housing, Texas Property Code, fair credit reporting, TREC.. they all say that the owner is running a business with laws and regulations to work within.. the one person who does not know they are a business is a landlord many times

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Rozenberg:

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    Agreed.. 1 out of 3 Landlords are in a lawsuit every year for breaking laws they don’t even know existed

    IRS, fair housing, Texas Property Code, fair credit reporting, TREC.. they all say that the owner is running a business with laws and regulations to work within.. the one person who does not know they are a business is a landlord many times

    I would upvote this more if I could. I own property in two states I can’t imagine trying to keep that all straight.  Imagine owning stuff in say 10 states.  Would be very difficult.

    I think the OP just wants people to say he can keep the money, but in reality I think he should return it as a settlement.  Keeping 1500 sounds good til you get sued for 4500 and then add on all the attorney fees on top of that. 

  • Steve RozenbergPro Member
    Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    I Have learned there is a difference between arguing over what is right in your mind and what is Smart business. Sometimes emotions take over our thinking, and yes it can be frustrating thinking someone is getting away with a fast one. The cost of legal counsel and time.. and most importantly the mental stress far out costs. Just paying it, being done, moving on.. and learning the lesson so it does not happen again

    Just my opinion

  • Investor · Valrico, FL · Member since 2015 · 80 posts · 27 votes
    7y

    Is there a way to return the deposit on the contingency that legal action from the "tenant" cannot follow?

  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y

    I googled the relevant Texas statute you listed in your description - rec 92.109 - and it requires you to provide an itemized listing of damages and charges to retain a security deposit. If nothing else read the statute and see if you think you are at risk. If you are concerned you should consult with a Texas attorney. The cost of a one hour consultation may save you some money in the long run and provide you with some peace of mind. Plus it is always good to have a relationship with an attorney to help with your legal issues.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hartford, CT · Member since 2017 · 168 posts · 163 votes
    7y

    @Robert Wood

    I agree with what everyone says about getting an attorney. You can get a subscription base (sometimes it is a benefit of your job) for lawyers that covers all the fees. I have MetLife law and it is $11/month.

    Also, as a landlord you may want to consider getting umbrella insurance if you don’t have it. For about $100/yr you can get a million dollar policy that covers you if you are sued over anything.

    Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Sour Lake, TX · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 76 votes
    7y

    I'm a landlord in Texas and when drafting our lease our lawyer warned us that a security deposit was only for damages and not for back rent or unpaid fees.

    I would consult a lawyer and probably just settle out of court i.e. just pay the $1500 back and move on. Lesson learned.

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