Would you lie on payment history for your tenant?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
2yFollow

Would you lie on payment history for your tenant?

Dana Richardson
Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 12 votes

Hello,

We have tenants that moved to Florida from out of state and didn’t have rental history, jobs, and also a low credit score.  We rented to them as they had cash from selling their home and paid us first, last, and security plus 3 months of rent extra.  Needless to say, multiple times they were not able to pay and we had to use all the reserve funds and sent them notice of non renewal.  We are now getting notice from something they filled out asking us about their payment history,  They are nice people and take good care of our home, but they lack communication and clearly can not handle their finances.  What would you do?  Lie or tell the truth?

Thank you,

Dana

1Reply
28 views

Most Popular Reply

Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
2y

I tell the truth that I can prove.  If tenant does not like the truth, we have records of when they paid, the condition of the unit at move-in and move-out, the record of security deposit deductions including photos.

if a tenant wants to sue for the truth, I consider it a cost of doing business.  We have not yet been sued for any feedback.  In general, we do not get a LL reference check request from our poor tenants.   I suspect they are having someone impersonate us as their LL.  

Why risk being sued?   Because I want honest LL feedback when I am screening tenants.   It would be hypocritical for me to want honest LL feedback but not be willing to provide it for the next LL. 

Fortunately, a very large percentage of our tenants deserve positive LL reference so it has seldom been a problem.  

also I have been threatened of being sued by tenants dozens of times and have never been sued.   It is because the tenant has no case.   They are playing poker with a $hit hand and I know it.   You cannot bluff if the other players know you have nothing. 

Tell the truth as to what you can prove.  If you do not have the proof, then do not state anything.   Provable Truth is a great defense.  

Good luck

11Reply
See this reply in the discussion

21 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    I don't provide landlord references, good or bad.

    [email protected]301-893-4635Podcast Guest on Show #192
    District Invest Group546 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    4Reply
  • Dana Richardson
    OP
    Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 12 votes
    2y

    Can you tell me why you don’t?  Thank you.

    0Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Because people sue you for bad references.

    [email protected]301-893-4635Podcast Guest on Show #192
    District Invest Group546 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Tom T.
    Investor · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 72 votes
    2y

    @Dana Richardson

    Be mindful of liability.

    I would probably answer something like this.

    Yes, they rented from me from x to y time frame. The lease was paid in full. No eviction required. House was kept fine. If they want more details, just say: I'm sorry thats all the detail I am willing to provide. If the press again, just repeat. Maybe they can read between the lines. You are being honest and said nothing to open yourself to liability.

    2Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    2y

    I tell the truth that I can prove.  If tenant does not like the truth, we have records of when they paid, the condition of the unit at move-in and move-out, the record of security deposit deductions including photos.

    if a tenant wants to sue for the truth, I consider it a cost of doing business.  We have not yet been sued for any feedback.  In general, we do not get a LL reference check request from our poor tenants.   I suspect they are having someone impersonate us as their LL.  

    Why risk being sued?   Because I want honest LL feedback when I am screening tenants.   It would be hypocritical for me to want honest LL feedback but not be willing to provide it for the next LL. 

    Fortunately, a very large percentage of our tenants deserve positive LL reference so it has seldom been a problem.  

    also I have been threatened of being sued by tenants dozens of times and have never been sued.   It is because the tenant has no case.   They are playing poker with a $hit hand and I know it.   You cannot bluff if the other players know you have nothing. 

    Tell the truth as to what you can prove.  If you do not have the proof, then do not state anything.   Provable Truth is a great defense.  

    Good luck

    11Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    Always tell the truth. A) It's the right thing to do, B) By lying, you will potentially harm another landlord down the road. C) Whether or not you get caught, do you want to be a liar? Why is that ok? Because they are 'nice people and take care of your home'?

    6Reply
  • Craig Warner
    Lender · Nationwide Lender / Novus Home Mortgage, a division of Ixonia Bank / NMLS #423065; Craig Warner / NMLS #129642 · Member since 2024 · 78 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    Tell the truth, because if they are trying to purchase a home and a verification of rent is from a private party we'll ask for supporting documentation from the borrower anyways, as we know landlords may stretch the truth. 

    0Reply
  • Travis Biziorek
    Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    This is great because smart real estate investors know to NEVER call the last landlord on file.

    Always call the one before that.

    If someone called me for a reference on one of my tenants, one that I know is a deadbeat and I want out of the house... what do you think I'm saying?

    I will SING THEIR PRAISES.

    And I'm incentivized to do so.

    A lot of people here won't tell you that, but I'm saying the quiet part out loud here. 

    Say what you want about that but I'd be looking out for myself and if the person doing the reference checks isn't smart enough to go back further... that's on them.

    3Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y

    I don't lie to get rid of a tenant.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dana Richardson:

    Hello,

    We have tenants that moved to Florida from out of state and didn’t have rental history, jobs, and also a low credit score.  We rented to them as they had cash from selling their home and paid us first, last, and security plus 3 months of rent extra.  Needless to say, multiple times they were not able to pay and we had to use all the reserve funds and sent them notice of non renewal.  We are now getting notice from something they filled out asking us about their payment history,  They are nice people and take good care of our home, but they lack communication and clearly can not handle their finances.  What would you do?  Lie or tell the truth?

    Thank you,

    Dana


     You state the following..... no comment. And keep it moving.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    This is great because smart real estate investors know to NEVER call the last landlord on file.

    Always call the one before that.

    If someone called me for a reference on one of my tenants, one that I know is a deadbeat and I want out of the house... what do you think I'm saying?

    I will SING THEIR PRAISES.

    And I'm incentivized to do so.

    A lot of people here won't tell you that, but I'm saying the quiet part out loud here. 

    Say what you want about that but I'd be looking out for myself and if the person doing the reference checks isn't smart enough to go back further... that's on them.


    in markets for rental areas that have high proportion of tenants  like the mid west were something like 50 to 60% of all folks rent.. your telling the truth flat guarantee most landlords with a bummer tenant is going to say anything they can to get them to move on.

    in nicer areas of A class 700 fico tenants this is not really as big of an issue
    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

    I don't lie to get rid of a tenant.


    as a licensed PM you would have way to much risk not telling it like it is.. 
    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Travis Biziorek
    Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    This is great because smart real estate investors know to NEVER call the last landlord on file.

    Always call the one before that.

    If someone called me for a reference on one of my tenants, one that I know is a deadbeat and I want out of the house... what do you think I'm saying?

    I will SING THEIR PRAISES.

    And I'm incentivized to do so.

    A lot of people here won't tell you that, but I'm saying the quiet part out loud here. 

    Say what you want about that but I'd be looking out for myself and if the person doing the reference checks isn't smart enough to go back further... that's on them.


    in markets for rental areas that have high proportion of tenants  like the mid west were something like 50 to 60% of all folks rent.. your telling the truth flat guarantee most landlords with a bummer tenant is going to say anything they can to get them to move on.

    in nicer areas of A class 700 fico tenants this is not really as big of an issue

    Yeah, my experience may be biased to my primary market. 

    That said, I'd imagine regardless of FICO score, if a tenant is bad and you would rather be rid of them, you're incentivized to act accordingly.

    1Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y

    Stick to the facts.  I wouldn't lie on their history and I'd expect others to be truthful.  If you aren't comfortable providing the information, then simply tell the tenant you can't provide a reference....that also speaks volumes.

    0Reply
  • Adam Michael Andrews
    Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 107 posts · 89 votes
    2y
    I would share the cold hard tenant ledger and let the next LL decide how to interpret it.

    As far as lying, acting as someone's accomplice in a fraud make you both rather bad people and sort of undermines your stated reason for looking to do this in the first place. ("They are nice people...")
    0Reply
  • Dana Richardson
    OP
    Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 12 votes
    2y

    Thank you everyone for your replies. I am a private landlord and not a PM. I did not offer a renewal of their contract and they will be leaving paid in full, however if it wasn’t for the 3 months deposit I took upfront, we would have had some problems possibly.  I do not know if they hadn’t paid the 3 months rent in advance if they would have paid more timely.   I do not want to lie that is why I was asking.  Great advice by everyone.  I will not respond to online requests but if I am directly asked, I will take Tom T’s advice and state that they rented from me for the 13 months and have paid in full.  If questioned further, I will not lie.  I do have records of proof of payments.  Thank You!  

    Dana

    1Reply
  • Michael Quarles
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    To lie or not to lie?   

    Obviously the answer is no.  Who in their right mind asks that question.  I would have rather you asked me 

    Do you ever think about hurting someone?   That’s an easy question to answer.   EVERYDAY! 

    I don’t  walk, park, visit, meet someone, or do anything without thinking about hurting someone.  
    I’m always aware of my surroundings from a fight perspective.  

    But would I lie for someone.  No.  

    0Reply
  • Adam BartomeoBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Stick to the facts and only the facts. We don't answer general questions like - Were they good tenants?, How did they treat the unit?, Did they follow the rules? We do answer questions like - What was the rent they were paying?, How many times were they late?, When did the lease start/end?

    [email protected]239-339-3969
    Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dana Richardson:

    Dana, I also recommend you watch the movie "Pacific Heights" with Michael Keaton. It's a great example of how landlords are duped into accepting bad tenants.

    Define some standards, then stick to them. Don't make exceptions unless you have solid alternatives to offset the risk. For example, collecting three months of rent upfront helped you avoid missed rent, but even that could have backfired if they missed more than three payments.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Dana Richardson
    OP
    Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 12 votes
    2y

    @Nathan Gesner Thank you I will take your advice.

    @Adam Bartomeo Good advice Thank you!

    @Michael Quarles I never wanted to lie, my post was because someone told me they thought it would be best.  I will not lie as I stated in my reply, but thanks to advice, I will be stating that lease is paid in full and will only give details if asked specifically.  They truly are good people and have taken great care of the property.  I don’t know why they had difficulty, but this is business, and that’s why I didn’t renew their lease.Thank you for your response.

    0Reply
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dana Richardson:

    @Nathan Gesner Thank you I will take your advice.

    @Adam Bartomeo Good advice Thank you!

    @Michael Quarles I never wanted to lie, my post was because someone told me they thought it would be best.  I will not lie as I stated in my reply, but thanks to advice, I will be stating that lease is paid in full and will only give details if asked specifically.  They truly are good people and have taken great care of the property.  I don’t know why they had difficulty, but this is business, and that’s why I didn’t renew their lease.Thank you for your response.

    Well, according to this post, the answer could be truthfully stated.
    ( They were nice people, took care of the property, and their lease was paid in full.) 
     

    P.S By you taking multiple months upfront did they consider themselves paying late?🧐

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free