Refrigerator, washers, and dryers...include them or not?

Rental Property Investor · St Peterburg FL and Omaha, NE · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 12 votes

I am about to rehab my first property as a buy and hold rental. It is a 3 bed 3 bath SF home. Part of my rehab will be a new kitchen including new cabinets, range, dishwasher and counter tops, etc. My question is, should I supply a new refrigerator for the kitchen? Also, should I also supply a washer and dryer?

I have a friend who has several SFR's in my market, who told me they never supply these in their properties, and that it's not a problem for their tenants to supply their own.

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Tom T.

Investor · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 72 votes

10y

Agreed on depends on the market and clientele you are serving.
I serve middle, low income families so I supply Refrigerator, Dishwasher and a Stove / Oven (not a microwave) Quarterly Pest Control and Garbage Collection.

I offer as an add on of a washer and dryer for X$per month. - Maybe I add to the lease, "Complete 12 months with no late payments and the washer dryer become yours at lease renewal." Thus rental price goes down in year two but so does the responsibility on my end. I purchase the units used from a local used appliance dealer. I think this is a win win scenario and keeps a good client (no late payments) in my property for the second year since their rent just got a tad cheaper.

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Kevin Izquierdo
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
I think everyone already answered this pretty well. If I may add my 2 cents, I think you should offer the fridge, washer and dryer. They will be strong points when youre showing the house to potential tenants and you can increase the rent (if it makes sense in your market to raise rent for new appliances).
I always say, "make it easier for the tenants." If they dont have to pay to have their appliances moved, I think thats a plus!
AND youre the one installing the fridge, washer and dryer so you know youre installing them correctly as opposed to hoping the tenants would install them correctly (im talking about the ice maker and the water lines for the washer).
If you decide on going with this option, I recommend what Johnny Youssef said in podcast 147: Stainless Steel Appliances! Listen to it and he'll explain ;)
Best of luck to you!
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Kevin Izquierdo
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Tom T.:

Agreed on depends on the market and clientele you are serving.
I serve middle, low income families so I supply Refrigerator, Dishwasher and a Stove / Oven (not a microwave) Quarterly Pest Control and Garbage Collection.
I offer as an add on of a washer and dryer for X$per month. - Maybe I add to the lease, "Complete 12 months with no late payments and the washer dryer become yours at lease renewal." Thus rental price goes down in year two but so does the responsibility on my end. I purchase the units used from a local used appliance dealer. I think this is a win win scenario and keeps a good client (no late payments) in my property for the second year since their rent just got a tad cheaper.
Wow, i love that lease addendum, "12 months no late payments and the W/D is yours." I assume you ultimately get more than what you paid for the machine, correct?
Curious: when the tenants move out, how do they take the machine? I imagine thats brutal on the floors, walls, door, etc., no?
Id love to hear more about this :)
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David Roberts
Brownstown, MI · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 98 votes
10y
We supply used appliances and do not warranty them and offer to remove them if they wish. We try to buy good used ones that work well and aren't very old so that it isn't a case of supplying a piece of junk. If one of those appliances were to break and it's too expensive to repair in the first month though we find another one at no charge to them. Don't want to start off the relationship on a bad footing!
It helps to charge the top rent. In my markets it seems that in most cases the appliances are provided.
In this day and age nobody wants to do anything and wants it handed to them. I think it goes a long way in helping with that. But new appliances are so damn expensive.
Appliances have to be the fastest depreciating item there is!
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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
I supply refrigerator, stove, dishwasher (built in) and microwave if built in. I used to supply washer and dryer but no longer provide those. I am trying to reduce costs and washer dryer combos are not cheap!
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Franklin Romine
Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
10y
I will usually supply a refrigerator for a apartment. Homes will sometimes have a fridge or washer & dryer that might be leftover from when I bought the property or previous tenant.
When supplying used appliances I have the tenant sign a "Used Appliance Agreement". I saved a copy of my agreement in the BP Fileplace... Letters.
Frank
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Larry Turowski
Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Steve Hannibal Include the kitchen appliances. You are putting in a new kitchen so this isn't a D-rental. And it makes a HUGE difference in appearance. It will show much better with appliances in place. And that translates to a bit higher rent and being quicker to rent.
As for washer and dryer, I wouldn't. It won't make a huge difference in appeal or renting quickly and it is just another thing to fix when it breaks.
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Abhilash Joseph
Missouri City, TX · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 8 votes
10y
I like the idea of providing appliances and it belongs to them after a year or two of lease. But, the comment as to who would own appliances without owning a house is pretty solid. I think i would give the refrigerator and the washer/dryer would be an optional buy negotiable during lease commencement...my 2 cents and also what has been the trend of the demographic of tenants would play a role in the final decision. Good luck ...I dont think there is a right or wrong way to do it...
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
@Steve Hannibal Totally depends on the asset class... A class all appliances including W D would be the norm. B same... with exception of WD those could be optional
C class or lower the only thing my guys put in them is a stove.. NO dishwasher no Garborator no refer no W D those items will all get broken. and or stolen when the tenant leaves.
Now many of the folks I know who deal in these lower end units.. will give the stove and a very cheap refer to the tenant day one...and tell them they are their to take with them when they leave.. pre emps the tenant stealing them.. and they then have to maintain them.. cuts down on maintenance calls. not sure how well it works in practice.
@Roy N. When I bought my place in Kelowna it was a brand new home on the Okanogan golf course.. there was a big deal about negotiating for appliances.. it seems in that part of Canada its not customary to leave your stove and dishwasher etc when you sell they wanted to charge etra for them.. then when I went to sell same thing it was a negotiating point. I have seen in Europe they even take the toilets with them... LOL>
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Andrew Halbert
Macomb, MI · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 45 votes
10y
I would supply it all, Why not? How much is that really going to save you if you don't? Decent used appliances can be found anywhere for cheap. In my market, single family homes always have the appliances supplied. We even supplied a microwave. I like things being complete and feel that it gives me an advantage over other properties a qualified tenant may be also considering.
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Erik Stewart
Rental Property Investor · West Fargo, ND · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 51 votes
10y
Very interesting topic. Thanks everyone! I learned a lot about appliances but the biggest thing is that it is market specific. I would assume this can be generalized to many questions that are posted.
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Donald Cooley
Railroad Conductor / Future investor · New Baltimore, MI · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 40 votes
10y
Great conversation, lots of great ideas for us new guys. I've heard both sides, higher rent, the ability to depreciate on taxes, but also the potential headaches of dealing with repairs, damage, and theft. I will definitely have a lot to think about when outfitting my first property.
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Angela Smith
Investor · Denison, TX · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 0 votes
10y
Like many of these post say, look at the market for the type of renter you are wanting and do what is most common. Here in a small town of North Texas, we do not normally supply the fridge, but sometimes we get one included in the property purchase. We have never given dishwashers, or clothes washer/dryer, but the connections are there. and when people move out, they sometimes leave these items. We have single family properties in middle class and lower-middle class neighborhoods. If you decide to go the route of purchasing these appliances, check your local Habitat for Humanity site, as they have these types of items for sale at wonderful prices, and its a way to support your local community!
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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Jay:
It's not customary to get appliances in a new build - though if the place was staged with appliances, people will negotiate for them. The norm across the country use to be to take your appliances when you moved (unless they were really old). These days, where appliances are not as expensive (in relative terms) it is becoming a little more common for folks to leave them - which creates more buyers who want them left behind.
Fortunately, the normal behaviour for a rental property is to leave all the appliances ;-)
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Jake E.
Real Estate Agent · Arlington, TX · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 23 votes
10y
Personally, we don't provide any appliances at all. The lease actually states that we do not provide them and if they are in the unit when they rent it then they are free to use them but we will not replace them. Honestly, I was uncomfortable doing this when we changed to doing it this way, but now it's pretty easy. I never have a problem renting out units with or without appliances.
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Steve Hannibal
OP
Rental Property Investor · St Peterburg FL and Omaha, NE · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 12 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Jake E.:

Personally, we don't provide any appliances at all. The lease actually states that we do not provide them and if they are in the unit when they rent it then they are free to use them but we will not replace them. Honestly, I was uncomfortable doing this when we changed to doing it this way, but now it's pretty easy. I never have a problem renting out units with or without appliances.
Jake, do you have any problems with damage to the floors during move in/outs? How about any problems with tenants hooking the appliances up wrong and causing water damage?
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Jake E.
Real Estate Agent · Arlington, TX · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 23 votes
10y
Steve, the only issue we have experienced when it comes to appliances would be hooking up dishwashers and getting them stabilized. We do this to prevent the damage ahead of time. When it comes to other appliances we may have experienced some minor scuffs but certainly nothing of great expense.
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Cheri Schaffer
Woodstock, CT · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 5 votes
10y
I lived in a rural area in Texas the one place I did rent out there did not provide any appliances at all. Not all of the rentals there were like that, but this one company in particular was. It did make it a tad difficult when we moved because then I had all these appliances I needed to get rid of, because my next place already had them.

In this area of Connecticut, they seem to always supply a refrigerator and a stove, at least. In the apartments I live in now mine is the only one that doesn't have a dishwasher. All the other apartments do, and that's really only due to there not being any room to put one.
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Jake E.
Real Estate Agent · Arlington, TX · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 23 votes
10y
@Cheri SchafferI can certainly understand that there would be pros and cons to the appliance issue but I recall, with laughter of course, my mentor in this business explained to me how " he was not in the appliance business". He owns well over a hundred SFH's and I can only imagine now what that would amount to. I only have 12 SFH's and I just want to learn from the old pro. Have a great one!
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Cheri Schaffer
Woodstock, CT · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 5 votes
10y
@Jake E. lol At the end of the day I guess we all just have to do what we feel is best for us! Probably would be wise to go with the market, in my opinion. In all honesty, if the places around here didn't supply them as well, I wouldn't either! I hope you have a great one too. :)
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Lauren Heart
Investor · Northern California · Member since 2015 · 126 posts · 40 votes
10y
Like others have stated...I think it depends upon your market and the property. I supply stove/fridge but not necessarily DW or WD in OH multi-family. In CA I would supply DW and stove as they are often fitted within cabinetry. In one of my markets tenants always want to bring their own fridge and WD, which saves me on repairs and storage. (SF homes overall seem to bring their own WD/fridge most of the time, and Mulit-family less so.) Time to talk to a local investor or realtor to find out the norms for your area!
Lauren H.
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Max T.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
To me, a rental without a fridge and stove is a non-functioning kitchen.
Laundry machines and dishwashers are nice to have, and in the market I operate in, expected by class A tenants. I can get away with not having a dishwasher here or there, but a unit without laundry access will not beat the competition.
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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
In my area you always get a fridge and a stove. I do not supply W/D unless they are a very good tenant and I have one around. I have supplied w/d to some on the condition that if they break I am not obligated to repair them. In one house I put an almost new w/d in at the request of the tenant for an extra $25 per month. They were bought for my daughter for college and had less than 6 months use. I only have one microwave and that one was part of the hood system I installed with the new counter tops I put in.
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