Worst tenant ever - I missed a giant RED FLAG
Rick BassettBusiness Member
Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
Bassett Property Management5108 Reviews
Worst tenant ever - I missed a giant RED FLAG
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@Rick Bassett I had one of those. Like you, I chose to ignore comments she made during our face-to-face interview/screening. This was back when I was a still-learning landlord.
This woman was just like your tenant and finally after she concocted a ludicrous story about the upper tenant, I sent her a notice to vacate.
She called a lawyer citing that as long as she paid her rent on time, I could not ask her to leave. WI law allows landlords to ask tenants to leave without giving a reason.
That was her last attempt at sucking the life out of me.
Like you, the champagne was on ice and when I finally checked her out (without incident by the way and she cleaned apartment spotless) we popped the cork right there in the apartment!
Good riddance! Any tenant now that is a PITA (pain in the ***) goes on a month-to-month and when I've finally had enough, they are sent packing!
Hope all works out for you and thanks for the entertaining story!
35 Replies
- Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 916 posts · 296 votes10y
Any stories you'd like to share? Id love to read them.
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
nice post.... I have a few of those.. my last rentals are all higher end and are rented to white collar professionals.. most as you state just go about their business.
One of my tenants .. was having a big party for her friends and was cooking and entertaining and the stove just was not good enough etc etc.. she kept $$$ at me and I finally went on line found a close out stainless steel very nice range that I would put in one of my new constructions.. I think I paid 1200 for it.. and told her if she can coordinate with home depot to get it delivered and installed and haul off the old one go for it its there and paid for LOL.. she did it and is happy now.. her friends came over she got to show off her new top of the line stainless ranges... AS soon as she leaves I will sell the home so I figured a new stove would need to be bought anyway to sell it retail. 200k plus home.
99% of the time tenants create their own mold.. seen it hundreds of times.
- Investor · Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 5 votes10yThank you for sharing as a new investor I love to read what not to do. I am interested though in understanding why you were responsible to get her under control when she started calling authority's. As a full time firefighter my understanding and the person we approach if we receive fraudulent calls is the caller/resident. If she was abusing the 911 system she should have been ticketed by both the fire and police department to keep her "under control"
- Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes10y
Originally posted by @Micah Parsons:
.
If she was abusing the 911 system she should have been ticketed by both the fire and police department to keep her "under control"
It's a small town. They were/are happy to respond to real emergencies but not nuisance calls that have nothing to do with them. Property owner gets fined for too many 'false alarms' not the tenant.
Bassett Property Management5108 Reviews @Rick Bassett I had one of those. Like you, I chose to ignore comments she made during our face-to-face interview/screening. This was back when I was a still-learning landlord.
This woman was just like your tenant and finally after she concocted a ludicrous story about the upper tenant, I sent her a notice to vacate.
She called a lawyer citing that as long as she paid her rent on time, I could not ask her to leave. WI law allows landlords to ask tenants to leave without giving a reason.
That was her last attempt at sucking the life out of me.
Like you, the champagne was on ice and when I finally checked her out (without incident by the way and she cleaned apartment spotless) we popped the cork right there in the apartment!
Good riddance! Any tenant now that is a PITA (pain in the ***) goes on a month-to-month and when I've finally had enough, they are sent packing!
Hope all works out for you and thanks for the entertaining story!
What did the previous landlords have to say about her?
I've had those tenants before and understand why you have champagne on ice. I managed a 3-floor apt complex and we had two tenants constantly bickering about footsteps, music, banging doors. Actually, the tenant below was the aggressor and tenant above was responding in kind. The PM co. finally sent both a letter stating if complaints continue both would be asked to leave. I told them not to call me anymore, just call the police. Next night tenant below called and their response: "We can't hear the noise from the street, there is nothing we can do." The tenants below kept simmering and sniping until their lease expired and they moved.
So take a drink for me when you do celebrate as I've been there!!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Monterey, CA · Member since 2014 · 193 posts · 117 votes10y
Wow, thanks for the cautionary tale! I inadvertently did an OCD test the other day. I was showing a mobile home for rent, and I said to the prospective tenant, "The laminate flooring looks pretty good, but it has a few scratches. [pointed them out] Will that bother you? Are you a Virgo?" (the latter said with an impish grin; it's not illegal to discriminate on the basis of Sun Sign, is it? ;-)
The guy laughed and said, "Heck no, I'm a Libra. Nothing bothers me."
I think I'll do that again. :-)
Here's a story for those interested about my PITA tenant.
The same woman cited in my above post claimed that the water coming into the building was contaminated. She called the city and demanded that they come and flush the fire hydrant across the street.
The City of Milwaukee did it as a courtesy, but said that if she had any other 'requests' that I would be billed accordingly. Found out that flushing a hydrant costs the city about $3,500.00.
Yeah, that's just one story about her. I look back now and just shake my head that I tolerated her lunacy for 3 years!
PITAs are the worst tenants ever. I don't care if they pay their rent on time!
- Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 260 posts · 99 votes10yWe also are getting rid of ours problem tenant in our building tomorrow as well! Cheers to both of us! We inherited this tenant when we purchased this 12 unit building in Massachusetts. He has allowed his children to write on the walls, kick in the wall, broken two windows and clogged the sink too many times that I can't remember. He and his partner have screaming matches that you can hear throughout the entire building. He allows his children to run up and down the hallway is as though it was their own private gymnasium. They leave trash everywhere and the odor of cigarettes and marijuana streams from their unit. When doing my exit exam of the apartment I was amazed at the level of filth people can live in. Just simple paths to each room and debris and clutter everywhere. He told me that he expects his full security deposit back… Not
- 10yMike HurneyPro MemberReal Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
@Rick Bassett @James R. OCD & PITA? In my experience I've never had a Bad Tenant go Good on me. So when there's something unreasonable, I suggest a move.
Also I haven't had much luck "inheriting" Tenants. So when I buy a place I don't wait until they move out to adjust the rent, I do it ASAP.
@Robert Nason Don't forget to get their forwarding address because I'm sure they'll want ALL their stuff moved to the new address;-)
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes10y
A princess just left and I am so happy. Had no idea this educator would refuse to move her car for the snow plow or do anything that's the least bit 'inconvenient.' So happy when she suddenly asked if she could break her lease and move. 'Yes, yes you may!'
Looking back there were no red flags. I was completely bamboozled. I am normally very sensitive to their 'sensitivities' at the initial showing. Good thread @Rick Bassett!
- Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes10y
Here in WI, I know that at least based on my reading, our landlord tenant related laws are maybe in the middle as far as all 50 states go, not like some where crafty, game the system tenants can really make investing a bad proposition, but also not quite as sane as some other states. (often with the assistance of well meaning "tenant advocacy" type groups who are normally CLUELESS to the fact that a good deal of their efforts are NOT stopping the proverbial "greedy slumlords" who do exist, but I think in far smaller #'s than many of the anti-landlord crowd imagine and their efforts and waste of money that's either taxpayer $$ via grants, etc or charitable donations and it all goes so often to HELP some grifter sleazebag tenant who's just gaming the system and has done it many times before. Often it is info passed on from relatives too!)
I'm still amazed at the #s of people from thousands of miles away who want to invest here as residential landlords and I'm normally all for encouraging investment here, where I've lived for all but just a bit of my 32, oops 42 years! (I swear I look 32 though, or try to convince myself I do!)
I attended a landlord bootcamp which I HIGHLY, 100% RECOMMEND even well experienced landlords go to, not the city run one, which I also have been to and came away thinking it should be called the "tiny bit of good info and LOTS of veiled threats if you're a future slumlord class" but its from the Apartment Assoc of SE WI (I'm a member for full disclosure) but you'll get 8 or 9 hours of PRICELESS info directly from the attorney who my usual, general practice lawyer said is hands down the one to call for any bad eviction or potentially big liability type deals and he'll go through things that the city for one, would never dream of telling you, such as how in Milwaukee Cty, our judiciary is very biased to the left side of politics as you'd guess for a generally left leaning county, but that many of these judges take those political stances right into their courtrooms and you sure as hell better be prepared for rulings that fly in the face of the current laws, especially the changes made a few years back when the GOP gained TOTAL control of state gov't in legislature as well as the governor seat and as was national news at the time, went like a machete through the law books and fixed a lot of things needing fixing, including several relatively minor aspects of landlord/tenant laws that COULD be exploited, as well as stuff that didn't make sense anymore, etc. It wasn't anything radical and unlike the changes to other areas like the public sector union laws, did not cause a massive protest in Madison, etc
Well, that was great but one thing I learned that day, or half day as I had to leave early due to semi-emergency at jobsite but still got the massive binder of awesome info too, I learned that apparently in Milwaukee Cty (where ALL of these incredibly cheaply priced but getting decent rent places are that you coasties are foaming at the mouth about!) we have a majority or near totality of judges who simply ignore those new laws, changes, etc as well as whatever else they don't like and just rule for tenant, maybe short of evicting the next Jeff Dahmer type scumbag who hopefully never does come around here again. He gave one example after the next from his 5 days a week normally spent not dreaming about whatever, but practicing law IN THE MKE CTY COURTHOUSE and it was one after the next where reading the law and hearing both sides, any rational person would say "sounds like landlord wins"-WRONG!!!!! TENANT WINS, SORRY MR/MS LANDLORD BUT YOU JUST GOT SCREWED! It was one heck of an eye opener, as well as hearing that right next door, where I grew up but choose to live in Milwaukee Cty for the more urban life although its getting old at times, but next door in Waukesha Cty, which is middle class to very high end in certain parts, but on average a far more affluent county and actually along with two other neighboring burb counties with far less population, are three of the most conservative voting counties in entire USA, they actually have judges who rule based on the laws as written, whether they like them or not (hey it is THE LAW!) and where landlords will very often get the EXACT OPPOSITE outcome in court!
Of course, you're NOT going to find ANY $20k "hot deal" duplexes in Waukesha Cty like we have by the bundle here in MKE Cty. The city of Waukesha itself is generally the only part where you'd find much under $100k and then venturing into the other burbs, it goes straight up from there, well into 7 figures for lakefront stuff in the lake country as well as a few areas like Elm Grove, where one neighborhood that's the spot to be there and now teardown heaven has a $5M listing and I think at least 2 more well over $1M, which for this market is RARE! I doubt the cash flows and other ratios work out nearly as well over there though!!!
- Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
Wow @Robert Taylor! Do you ever take a breath?
- Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2014 · 188 posts · 149 votes10y
Well @Rick Bassett, all I can say is good riddance. For frivolous complaints, did you have a clause in your lease for "trip charges" if she left the Furnace off and you had to drive over to check it out, then you need to charge her for it. In Texas, our landlord leases have a clause to charge $35 bucks on anything that could have been fixed by the tenant themselves. I don't necessarily enforce it, but it's enough for tenants to think twice before bugging me on such things
- Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 11 posts · 7 votes10y
What Mike Makkar said. We put a clause in the lease that tenants are responsible for the first $100 of any repair (sans the water heater, roof, or AC) and that will deter any frivolous repair requests. Just have to be careful that tenants call you when things aren't working so it doesn't lead to larger issues.
- Investor · Worcester, MA · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 8 votes10y
I'm going through as well!!
Picture buying a building where 3 out of 4 tenants (4 unit) are crazy! Ill give you the short story. The last nutty tenant who is alone and has to call every day for something (mostly non-legit). You cringe when your phone rings or texts! Your on Tylenol PM's in order to sleep at night because aside from this tenant, you are also trying to correct issues with the building that the previous landlord neglected to take care of. I am very, very good at screening. I bought a building with 3 (what I call) predatory renters who hate there lives and are looking to injure the landlord. I truly wish you the best!
Originally posted by @Rick Bassett:
If everything goes well then our worst tenant ever will be moved-out in just under 12 hours from now, the champagne is on ice and we are cautiously optimistic.
Interestedly enough, the problems with this tenant have very little to do with money as she's current on her rent and she's kept our house in decent shape (from what we can see so far) -and- she is leaving on her own, no eviction.
But she's been a nightmare in just about every other way by being overly needy on dozens of things that weren't real issues including spiders, mold claims (in her dirty bathtub), to heat complaints (no heat, they turned the furnace off to save money)...and on and on.
Reflecting back on the problems with her tenancy, I can only blame myself as I missed a giant RED FLAG when screening her as she mentioned that she was a bit OCD during the walk thru and said that she had to have things 'just so'.
I now believe that line to mean "I'm bats#t crazy, so get used to being my servant".
She's been able to turn our passive investment into an very active 'hands-on' investment during her stay as she's managed to monopolize more of our time than all of our other tenants combined. Ignoring her, as we tried a few times, didn't work out well as she then took to calling the Fire Dept and Police Dept to the house to respond to her non-emergencies...the good Uniformed men & women of our town weren't pleased and strongly suggested that I get her under control.
In any event, I'll be watching for this OCD RED FLAG in future screenings.
Rick
Screening tenants is like dating women brother.. If the woman does something totally spastic or vindictive that early in the interaction, and you notice it, RUN AWAY :)
- Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 916 posts · 296 votes10y
@Ruben Dominguez I've heard of other owners having the same clause, but do you know if it's enforceable? Tenants can't be charged for wear and tear. I cant imagine paying $100 for a hot water heater to be fixed.
@Mike Makkar Would you mind sharing the verbiage of your lease clause for nuisance calls?
- Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 7 votes10y
I read an interesting idea out of the Landlording on Autopilot book.
You want to tell the tenant that you are the 'property manager' and leave out the fact that you also own it. That way there's this mysterious third party (such as your cat) that you invent and have to call to approve things. Also, you have a great excuse to sound like you're a business - which you are - rather than some chummy friend with lots of time on your hand.
The caveat is that you have to be honest on legal documents that require your position.
Thanks for the post Rick
@Robert Taylor: You have reminded me that just because all those "cheap" properties 1,000's of miles away from me look good, I should think twice and stick to areas I know / live closer to.
- Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes10y
Originally posted by @Alice K.:
Thanks for the post Rick
@Robert Taylor: You have reminded me that just because all those "cheap" properties 1,000's of miles away from me look good, I should think twice and stick to areas I know / live closer to.
Ironically this is a $250k house that is 3/4 mile from my home in a B neighborhood that commands $1,700 mo rent.
Bassett Property Management5108 Reviews - Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes10y
Originally posted by @Rick Bassett:
If everything goes well then our worst tenant ever will be moved-out in just under 12 hours from now, the champagne is on ice and we are cautiously optimistic.
Interestedly enough, the problems with this tenant have very little to do with money as she's current on her rent and she's kept our house in decent shape (from what we can see so far) -and- she is leaving on her own, no eviction.
But she's been a nightmare in just about every other way by being overly needy on dozens of things that weren't real issues including spiders, mold claims (in her dirty bathtub), to heat complaints (no heat, they turned the furnace off to save money)...and on and on.
Reflecting back on the problems with her tenancy, I can only blame myself as I missed a giant RED FLAG when screening her as she mentioned that she was a bit OCD during the walk thru and said that she had to have things 'just so'.
I now believe that line to mean "I'm bats#t crazy, so get used to being my servant".
She's been able to turn our passive investment into an very active 'hands-on' investment during her stay as she's managed to monopolize more of our time than all of our other tenants combined. Ignoring her, as we tried a few times, didn't work out well as she then took to calling the Fire Dept and Police Dept to the house to respond to her non-emergencies...the good Uniformed men & women of our town weren't pleased and strongly suggested that I get her under control.
In any event, I'll be watching for this OCD RED FLAG in future screenings.
Rick
"Worst tenant ever"? "Crazy"? Really?
She pays the rent and keeps the place in decent shape, yet she merits those monikers, ostensibly because you don't like being inconvenienced by your customer?
"Passive [Investment]" is a tax/financial term; it does not mean you can be a lazy, hands-off landlord. If your tenant has no heat then you need to address it right away, no matter what the cause. Spiders and mold are also issues worthy of your attention.
Ignoring a tenant's calls is immature and unprofessional. Tenants are customers who are paying you good money: they deserve good service and in that sense, you are supposed to be their "servant". Too many landlords only want to collect the rent money and do nothing.
Real estate investing, be it flipping or landlording, is hard work. If you're not willing or able to work thusly, you should probably just invest in other areas that truly are "passive" e.g. stocks/bonds, etc.
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