Hi everyone, So I am getting closer to finding a tenant for my first SFH rental. It has taken me exceptionally long, probably because it is my first time going through the process. This is probably a C-class house with C-class tenant-base. My biggest challenge has been finding a serious, responsible tenant. This week I finally found one that I like for the following reasons: - She is polite, respectful, and reasonable - She is a 5th grade teacher with a steady income over 4x the rent - She has a clean criminal record - She has good credit history and has unintentionally signaled twice that her credit is important to her - Her car and dress seem clean and maintained enough - In some online research I found out she was on the dean's list in college - She is offering to pay another half-month's security deposit to give her an advantage over other applicants The biggest concern though is that she has a 75-pound dug that is a mix of Chow, American Terrier, Boxer, and Lab. Things to consider: - She says the dog is not aggressive - She says he does not destroy property - She says he's over the "puppy stage" - Her vet said the dog will likely not grow any more. - Apparently she brings him to day care regularly (maybe every day) where he usually expends his energy. She offered to provide the contact info of the daycare provider to hear her/his input on the dog's temperament. - Apparently she has an e-collar to help "manage" the dog if necessary. - She is offering to pay more pet fee (I am already charging $200 upfront and $25 additional every month) - The house is old (1952), has hardwood floors, a new deck, and a large backyard - The tenant is required to get renter's insurance - I have asked her to provide a record of the dog being spayed/neutered as well as vaccine records It may or may not be obvious that I would like to approve this tenant even with the dog. I would love to hear your thoughts?

Nick, it's your first rental and you are obviously excited about REI, congratulations!! However, I think you are totally over analyzing this and it sounds like you have just lost a months (or more) rent due to your overly strict criteria. No amount of research can guarantee a good tenant. Even a "doggie interview" won't tell you if the dog will scratch your floors and piss inside the house. This teacher sounds like a god send to me given the C class location of your home. Sign her up and stop wasting your time. If you have that much time to kill start researching your next investment.

@Nick Brubaker, Have you met the dog? Before I agree to rent to anyone with an animal(companion, assistive or pet, I meet it to make sure it is not overly aggressive. You're wise to require renter's insurance (make sure she carries $100k in liability that covers dog bites). Check your liability coverage as well and bump it to $500k if you can. Also check with your insurance carrier what breeds are not covered under your policy too. You should ask for a pet deposit, but I wouldn't take less than $500. You can only do this for pets, not assistive or companion animals, so state it as a pet in your lease. You can definitely require proof of current vaccinations, alteration and a behavioral report from the doggy daycare. I would also put in the lease the dog must be on a leash at all times when outside on the property. I don't see it as a red flag necessarily if someone with good credit and in a stable career chooses to live below her means. Check that she has a positive rental history from both her current and previous landlords. She may not have been able to get into a B class rental because many landlords won't rent to people with large dogs in nicer area rentals. In my experience, C area landlords are often more lenient when it comes to allowing animals. Usually I do see it as a red flag if an applicant offers more money up front than required. However, an extra half month toward security deposit is not excessive, like three to six months of rent in advance. Due to the tight rental market in my area, it is common for applicants to offer a higher deposit to get a leg up on the competition. Just make sure you screen her thoroughly and meet the pet. @Greg S's suggestion of putting her or any of your approved applicants on a M to M or a shorter lease (6 month) is wise since this is your first rental. This way, if it doesn't work out, you can end the tenancy quickly. Good luck and let us know how it worked out.

My current neighbor has a pit bull and she is quite probably the most well trained dog I've ever met. The neighbor across the street has a teeny-tiny dog and it's totally untrained and obnoxious. Moral of the story: judge the dog, not the breed. As a landlord, I ask about the dog's training (for example, obedience classes? What about the AKC's Canine Good Citizen certification?). Call the vet and the doggie daycare and see what they say. Go observe the dog interacting with others. Just a thought: the prospective tenant may want the listing because it's close to her work, will help her save money, or any number of reasons. She might also be offering more money upfront in anticipation of rejection due to the dog's breeding. I appreciate that many landlords are reluctant to rent to those who have dogs of certain breeds, and I know many communities have banned some specific breeds. I've researched this issue extensively for a book I'm writing and have learned that many of those same communities have rescinded their breed bans. Here's a statement by the AKC that's worth your time to skim: http://images.akc.org/pdf/canine_legislation/why_b...

that looks pretty much like our requirements as well. We have a 1-year minimum, everything else is the same. We are also in a C neighborhood and get over 100 emails requesting more information. When I respond with the pre-screen questions that number goes way down - to about 20. And then the number of people that reply back that they will actually come to the group showing is even less. We have great houses in not so great areas and offer rent just below or at market value. This makes it a competition for the people who want to live here. The best candidate will win and I've had them offer more deposit, longer lease as well. All you can do is screen really well. Our current tenants have 2 dogs! However she is a vet tech and they pay $25/month/pet and all has been well. They too had 750 credit rating and made 4 times the rent. It's hard for people to believe that hardworking people with good credit scores want to rent in these areas but for some they have grown up here and it's normal. They really do exist people! @Nick Brubaker, pull the trigger. Do the "pet interview", like @Susan Holmes said. that seems really wise.

She sounds like a responsible person and pet owner. I like them when the property is a fit. The hardwoods give me a little pause. Provide or require area rugs. My 83-lb lab has accidentally put some scratches in mine. The biggest problem I have with large dogs is yard damage. They can dig and rings of dead grass appear where they urinate. Otherwise my good pet owners are great and stay a long time!

My first instinct is why does this good sounding tenant need/want a c class property? Obviously, there could be many good reasons, but I would wonder about that. But, I think a dog in a c class area is an asset. Keeps away robbers.

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Jana Hristova:

There are two issues to consider: liability, which she can cover with renter's insurance or pet liability insurance and potential damage. Potential damage can be covered by pet fee and deposit.

If you have a choice of tenants then go for a tenant without a pet however if this tenant is qualified and there are no others maybe you should consider how much a vacancy will cost you vs. potential damage.

Finally, you can inspect the property often so you can catch any damage before it becomes expensive.

We manage many properties and I haven't had any issues with well behaved large pets. Most of the pet owners are very responsible and usually are long term tenants.

Liability is not covered with renters insurance. First of all, there is no way to ensure your tenant maintains insurance. They could send proof of insurance and drop it the next day. More importantly if someone sues the landlord, the renters insurance will not protect you.

Serious pet damage could easily exceed the security deposit. Usually a deposit is one months rent which will not pay to refinish floors, carpet a living room, cover sheet rock chewed apart or subfloors that are urine soaked.

I agree regular inspections are important to catch things before they get out of control.

0 Reply

Justin Fox

Software Developer · Vidor, TX · Member since 2015 · 922 posts · 639 votes

10y

Charge 150% months rent for security deposit, 500 dollar pet deposit and $25 per month pet rent fee (per non-caged pet) if everything checks out. That should cover you.

Meet the dog and see if it's aggressive. Rent to this person knowing that you'll have huge holes dug in the yard, maybe fence damage, probably dog door damage and door damage (including trim both inside and out). It will smell and your floors (if wood) will get scratched to hell, chipped grout if you have tile.

If I were you, I would go with my gut feeling and 86 this applicant based on the size of the dog and move on to the next interested person out of the 430 people.

1 Reply

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

If she qualifies otherwise then meet the dog. I would say the dog has probably made her search very difficult that is why she is so co-operative and offering extra for the pet. If the dog is in daycare, listens well when she brings him and she gives proof of insurance it sounds like a match.

3 Reply

Bryan N.

Investor · Hampton Roads, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 418 votes

10y

Pit bull is an automatic no from my insurance company, so it's an automatic no for me.

0 Reply

Jana Hristova

Property Manager · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 34 posts · 25 votes

10y

@Joe Splitrock

If the renter's insurance does not include liability there is a pet liability insurance. Here is one company that offers it but there are others. http://www.dogbitequote.com/.

Our tenants pay us the insurance premium together with the rent so this way we know they are covered. When there is a will there is a way.

In terms of damage, you are correct but that's why we get pet fee in addition to the deposit. If the damage exceeds that, you can bill the tenant for the rest. If the tenant values their credit they will pay.

2 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

I ton of great thoughts here. I really appreciate it everyone! All the mixed advice didn't help much toward making a decision, but there have been some great tips in this thread.

I met the dog today and was pretty put off by the size of it. It didn't seem particularly aggressive, though it's hard to tell in one instance. Overall I wouldn't say the meeting was reassuring.

I think what I will do is express these concerns to the applicant and maybe as for twice as much pet fee ($400 upfront and $50 a month), an additional one month of security deposit, and dog liability insurance in addition to the renter's insurance. This may not even be enough. If she doesn't accept it then it could be considered another way of declining her application. If she accepts, hopefully these additions will offset some of the cost and liability.

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Account Closed

San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

I ton of great thoughts here. I really appreciate it everyone! All the mixed advice didn't help much toward making a decision, but there have been some great tips in this thread.

I met the dog today and was pretty put off by the size of it. It didn't seem particularly aggressive, though it's hard to tell in one instance. Overall I wouldn't say the meeting was reassuring.

I think what I will do is express these concerns to the applicant and maybe as for twice as much pet fee ($400 upfront and $50 a month), an additional one month of security deposit, and dog liability insurance in addition to the renter's insurance. This may not even be enough. If she doesn't accept it then it could be considered another way of declining her application. If she accepts, hopefully these additions will offset some of the cost and liability.

First, I think your list of requirements, etc., is perfect.

Second, even minimal renter's insurance policies do include liability. Mine is standard, and it's $100,000 liability, with medical expenses of $1,000/person (I just looked it up because I was curious). I don't carry any extra liability, so that's just a standard policy.

Since your insurance company said there's no restriction on breeds, and if you've checked the dog out by talking to the doggie daycare and gotten vet records, etc., and confirmed it has no biting history (or at least really done your due diligence) I don't see your liability being really risky. If she's insured, even with just a standard policy, and you're insured, I don't see the need for additional insurance, myself.

I think you're going to have a trade-off with this property, as far as tenants go. Personally, I'd rather take this tenant, with a good job and good credit and good attitude - and her big dog - than a less-appealing tenant without one.

I'm kind of afraid you may price her out, if you demand too much more money. But, you can sure talk to her and see what she can handle. The more you can get, the better.

I think you're doing an amazing job and are really smart for being so diligent in your screening. Better safe than sorry. I think in your shoes, though, with the info you've given, that I'd probably rent to her. And since I saw that your initial lease is only 8 months, I think that is a reasonable amount of time. That takes you through the winter.

Another plus with her type of job, is that her job should be pretty secure, which means that if you ever have to collect from her, it's likely you will be able to collect. And if the neighborhood is that iffy, then you're probably always going to be dealing with some damage when there's tenant turnover. So, you would be best off renting to someone you're more likely to be able to collect from, if the deposit doesn't cover the damage.

I know it's headache-inducing dealing with applicants and getting lots of conflicting advice. I think you're doing great and will make the right decision for you :-)

3 Reply

Andrey Y.

Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Bryan N.:

Pit bull is an automatic no from my insurance company, so it's an automatic no for me.

I never heard of this. Does the insurance company volunteer this information or do you ask (don't know how one would know all the possible questions to ask). When I buy home insurance, they go over whats covered and the amounts. The word dog or pitbull never enters the conversation.

0 Reply

Bryan N.

Investor · Hampton Roads, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 418 votes

10y

@Andrey Y.

I emailed them and asked for a list.

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Andy D.

Investor · Zürich, Zürich · Member since 2016 · 292 posts · 115 votes

10y

@Joe Splitrock You write: "...Liability is not covered with renters insurance. First of all, there is no way to ensure your tenant maintains insurance. They could send proof of insurance and drop it the next day."

Re "does not have liability coverage": that's not true with the policies I've seen (and also what I've read on BP).

Re "no way to ensure they maintain the insurance policy": yes there is - if you're the additional insured (which should always be the case/demand from landlord). You will then be informed about anything related to the policy, especially an upcoming lapse due to non-payment etc.

Then again, it certainly depends on the individual renter's policy and the individual situation. As always...

3 Reply

Robin Cox

Rental Property Investor · Hamilton, OH · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 30 votes

10y

@Nick Brubaker regarding renters insurance and liability.

Our insurance company does not exclude any breeds. He said, "just make sure it doesn't have a viscous history of any bites." (Not sure how to confirm that!) He also said they need to have renters insurance and make it 300k as it's only slightly more expensive than 100k, that way the renter is liable for any bites to others.

As far as damage to the house goes if you had several hundred dollars in damage due to the dog the pet fee and security deposit should cover that. If the damage goes beyond that then it's on you or you can bill her for it.

My understanding is that renter's insurance covers their items and gets you off the hook if someone falls on the property that they are renting, or if they negligently left a pot on the stove and the kitchen burned - their fault, their insurance not you. If lightning strikes the house it's on you for the house and their renters insurance would replace their possessions.

2 Reply

Andy D.

Investor · Zürich, Zürich · Member since 2016 · 292 posts · 115 votes

10y

@Robin Cox last paragraph: That's exactly how the situation is over here and how I'm pretty sure is also the case with every respective policy in the US. It sure is with mine in the US.

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Alfonso Aceves

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 6 votes

10y

You should require a pet deposit. We usually do $300.00. Make it non refundable. Or what you can do is make a part of it non refundable, and the other part refundable. That way she has an incentive to make sure her dog doesn't damage anything, so she can get some money back when she moves out.

1 Reply

Steve Karp

Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 27 votes

10y

I wouldn't get bogged down by such a detailed examination of a tenant. If they meet your criteria, its a yes. if not, no. If you allow pets, its best to have a weight limit. Most weight limits are 25 to 30 pounds for dogs. While I'm a numbers/what's on paper guy, there's exceptions. I'd agree with the others though, Why would an A/B type applicant be so interested in a C property? Again, I don't care what color they are, what they look like, what they dress like per se. Of course that matters to a degree, but ultimately the rules and laws of landlording apply. Non discriminatory. It sucks to let a unit sit vacant. In the long run, you'll spend less if you exercise patience and rent to a tenant that has a cute little 25 pound dog.

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Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Thank you all again. It sounds like renter's insurance with Geico does not exclude the dog breeds in her dog's mix. The liability limit is $100,000 is that sufficient?

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Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

I require all my tenants to have a minimum 1M in liability coverage.

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Susan H.Pro Member

Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

Thank you all again. It sounds like renter's insurance with Geico does not exclude the dog breeds in her dog's mix. The liability limit is $100,000 is that sufficient?

Good to know!

My Allstate insurance agent recommends $200,000; perhaps that varies by locale. Did you ask your own insurance agent? That might be helpful.

0 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

My own insurance would not cover this breed of dog. The Geico insurance agent was able to raise the limit from 100k to 300k for the tenant's renter's insurance, which should be plenty for property issues, but I wonder if I am still leaving myself exposed in the event that the dog attacks someone (though she and the dog care woman said the dog is not aggressive).

0 Reply

Susan H.Pro Member

Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

My own insurance would not cover this breed of dog. The Geico insurance agent was able to raise the limit from 100k to 300k for the tenant's renter's insurance, which should be plenty for property issues, but I wonder if I am still leaving myself exposed in the event that the dog attacks someone (though she and the dog care woman said the dog is not aggressive).

Nick, I absolutely understand your anxiety. From my perspective, I'd say you've certainly done your due diligence. There will always be "What if...?" questions.

Most recent dog attack I've read about locally involved a Chihuahua. Go figure. <smile>

1 Reply

Christine Johnson-Sundby

Rental Property Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 15 votes

10y

Absolutely meet the dog! So many rental properties don't allow pets...that may be why she is offering more money. The proposed renter sounds great. I'd love to have her as a renter. Trust your gut and go for it!

1 Reply

Dan Cho

Latham, NY · Member since 2016 · 64 posts · 9 votes

10y

@Nick Brubaker Sounds like you have a good tenant. However I think it comes down to personal preference on how comfortable you are with the situation. The dog may be fine and have all the references in the world, however god forbid the dog bites someone is it worth the trouble? and is it something you will think back on in hindsight.

I think the fact that you asked this question, you may already have your answer but perhaps your trying to get a change of opinion.

1 Reply

Sam Sharata

Real Estate Agent · Annandale, VA · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 15 votes

10y

Forgive me if I sound glib, but you are renting a home in a C class neighborhood and from my own experience, no amount of due diligence will guarantee that your tenants will treat your property like a temple. Suspicious or not, if you're seriously considering renting to this prospect, ask to see her current residence so you may get an idea of how she presently lives. Try to do this with very short notice so she won't have time to clean up, or shoo an unwanted live-in boyfriend, etc. You want to see her in her "native habitat". If you're satisfied by what you find, then there's your answer. If you've received 430 applications for your place, odds are you probably have a number of quality prospects that you shouldn't ignore. Good luck, and may the farce be with you!

1 Reply

Account Closed

San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

My own insurance would not cover this breed of dog. The Geico insurance agent was able to raise the limit from 100k to 300k for the tenant's renter's insurance, which should be plenty for property issues, but I wonder if I am still leaving myself exposed in the event that the dog attacks someone (though she and the dog care woman said the dog is not aggressive).

I thought your insurance did not have a breed restriction. So, I'm confused by your saying your own insurance would not cover this breed of dog.

Change your insurance, so it covers a dog with no history of aggression. I know some insurance companies will insure this dog.

So, change your insurance, and with her insurance of $300K, and a very responsible owner, you should be good.

You're not going to ever be 100% risk free in this business. If you're this worried, though, perhaps you should keep looking for another tenant.

2 Reply

JR T.

Financial services executive · Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 341 votes

10y

I would rent but make the additional half month deposit a nonrefundable pet fee instead. Exactly what she offered and you're accommodating a hard to place dog. Lab breeds are very gentle despite their size.

1 Reply

JR T.

Financial services executive · Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 341 votes

10y

Originally posted by :

Serious pet damage could easily exceed the security deposit. Usually a deposit is one months rent which will not pay to refinish floors, carpet a living room, cover sheet rock chewed apart or subfloors that are urine soaked.

I agree regular inspections are important to catch things before they get out of control.

You can trigger the tenants renters insurance by filing a cross complaint against the tenant. Advise the tenant to send it in to their insurance.

You can make sure the policies are paid by requiring a COI listing you as additional insured. You can also pay your tenants premiums for them.

1 Reply

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog - should I rent??

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog - should I rent??

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