Landlords: do you represent yourself as the Owner or Prop Manager
Rental Property Investor · West End, NC · Member since 2016 · 98 posts · 32 votes
Landlords: do you represent yourself as the Owner or Prop Manager
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I usually tell folks (when asked) I'm the owner but I did get a chuckle once when I was cutting the grass at a property for rent and someone pulled into the driveway after seeing the For Rent sign. He got out of the car and started evaluating the house from the outside and I just kept on cutting the grass. He asked me if I knew how much it was renting for and I "guessed" at what I thought I heard the rent was. His comment was that he was pretty good at negotiating things and he felt he could "talk" the owner down on the rent a couple of hundred dollars. I said I didn't know about that; it was a pretty big house (five bedrooms, two bathrooms) but good luck if he could do it.
Gail
55 Replies
During 19yrs of operations, I've always represented myself in person and in writing as THE OWNER. As noted above, "the buck stops here - - and right now too".
If you pretend to be someone else, you create a documentation problem with every doc you sign (IMO). If you say "I am the manager" then your signature line needs the capacity you are representing, eg "Joe Doe, as Manager".
If you say "I am the Property Manager", the sign as Joe Doe, as Agent
The last thing you need to do is to invalidate your Lease or Notices when challenged in court.
- Rental Property Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2014 · 136 posts · 65 votes10y
I respect @Thomas S. comments but would add a little different persepctive on this. Easy Chair investors are definitely common, but Newbie landlords might simply be looking for that additional support behind their interactions with tenants and not know any better. My screwups as a Newbie:
- Giving answers right away to tenant questions. Always, always, tell them you'll get back to them or train them to email you with questions. Most of the time if they call, I let the initial call go to voicemail so I can have time to digest their request.
- Giving my home address for rent payment. (yes, I did this..) After forcing the hand of a habitually-late renter, stating if I needed to have it by x date, she drove 30 miles and rolled up in her pot smoke-filled hooptie to pay me in cash. at my home. in front of my daughter. Lesson learned: Get a P.O. Box and set up everyone on electronic payments (I use ClearNow). That P.O. Box is used on my leases.
- Not clearly outlining my expectations up front, before the lease signing. Do you have to explicitly tell them not to pour fry oil down the drains? Yes. Do you have to have that extra security for when their dog tears out your carpet? Yes. Do you have to have that one-on-one conversations about CONSEQUENCES of their failure to follow your lease? Yes. I cannot emphasize this one enough. It sets you up for when they fail, they already knew what to expect. No emotion = you're not the bad guy = no conflict.
Conflict sucks and many of us were brought up to actively avoid it. But once burned, it makes you a better, more confident landlord. Go ahead, be the "PM" - no judgement here. But know that after a little practice, you'll no longer need it.
- Rental Property Investor · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 32 votes10y
I'm always honest about being the owner. This is a matter of public record in most cases, and easy to discover if the property is held by a company, so why try to hide it?
I avoid renting to tenants that will not respect the rules, regardless of who makes them. You might say that I have that luxury because of the types of properties I own and where they are located.
You are better off having a vacancy than a problematic tenant. You can fix a vacancy.
- Investor · Alabaster, AL · Member since 2016 · 280 posts · 88 votes10y
Interesting topic.... I represent myself as the owner, however I see both sides especially when it comes to increasing the rent.... if they knew me as a PM, I could send an impersonal letter stating rent is going up 10%..
- Real Estate Agent · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 183 posts · 72 votes10y
@Alex Stewart I respectfully disagree. I completely understand why being a PM would make things easier but I think of my rentals as a relationship, a business relationship sure but one based on building trust. If a tenant can't respect me as the authority I might not be as friendly with them but I don't pretend that I am not the decision maker.
@Thomas S. I think I'm in your camp.
- Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes10y
I tell my tenants that I do everything and it seems to be working just fine. I set the precedance at the time of the lease signing and go over the expectations from the start, such as what is considered an emergency and what is considered a fix. I have made pretty clear lines in the sand.
I've owned both residential & commercial rentals for over 26+ years, I'm not a newbie. I've done it both ways, I was the owner for most of those years, the last five I'm one of the managers who works for the company.
All you "owners" who need the ego boost from telling people that you are the owners will change your tune quickly the first time you are threatened or attacked by some wackjob. If you think that you wont run into one or rent to one, you are dreaming. I've had good tenants go bad after years due to job loss, new addictions or personality change, or a new psycho bf/gf moves in. Society in general is not like it was 25 years ago, people are doing things they wouldn't have done back then. Our worlds are not getting safer... I don't even use my real name, I use an abbreviation of my last name for everything. I don't need them finding me, finding my own home, my family, my things, etc... I've come across some nasty vindictive people in this business who we've not parted on good terms, or they had friends or relatives who were sketchy and considered the LL an enemy.
It's so much easier for even prospective tenants when they think that they don't have to put on a show for the owner when you are just a r/e agent/ manager showing the property, you get an insight to their real personality that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
If something comes up, you have time to think about it, or just not be the bad guy, in fact I'm someone they think is just another working stiff.
No, it's not a lie, I'm not legally the owner anyway, I have a registered business entity to shield me.
After 26+ years of experience, this is the way for me to go. Most people have to learn things the hard way though...
Since I do intensive personal interviews it is made very clear that I am the owner from the get go.. I have been cursed at, threatened, physically assaulted and have had to take out No Trespass Warrants against past tenants on my home property. All during the process of cleaning out properties. None of this phases me in any way. Had I posed as a PM I would expect exactly the same results.
George C in regards to protecting your identity I would be willing to bet there is enough personal info on you floating around the net that any semi qualified computer nerd could have a areal photo of your home within 24 hrs. There is no point in pretending there is any privacy in the world today.
I however do have a advantage in that in Canada hand guns are very rare so no real worries there. Knives and rifles maybe but usually just fists to be aware of and to be honest I have provoked some tenants to achieve an eviction..
Sticks and stones may break my bones but you will get evicted.
- Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes10y
Owner. Everything is public record if you take the time to look, you can find anything. If you lie, and they find out, you damage a relationship. My word is my bond. Always!
- 10yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
I am the owner of my rental properties, and my tenants are aware of the fact that I am the decision-maker. I think that this helps keep me accountable to the property and the tenants, and forces me to make decisions. That said, the tenants know that I expect certain treatment of the property and that I expect them to report problems to me. I enforce my rules.
I agree to some extent with @Thomas S. brought up some interesting points about section 8 and safety issues with real estate. While I can certainly understand the temptation to avoid facing the tenants as owner in that case, I feel that if you believe your safety is threatened, you might be investing in the wrong type of real estate...
I don't want tenants expecting leniency from me in their requests. To them I am the property manager. The owner, whether it be me or someone else, will be referred to as an investment fund or an investment group. That way, the tenant will know not to ask for exceptions on rent or other policies. Also, this makes it easy to pin the policy on the "big bad" investment group.
I'm just now closing on my first duplex so I'm not speaking from experience. My approach could be sub optimal at which point I can make the required changes. I'm very much looking forward to learning the skill of being a landlord.
- Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 103 votes10y
Rather than perpetuate this nonsense, I'll just say good luck. We all need to do things the way that works best for us, and I'll continue to manage my properties like a business. For what it's worth, I've evicted tenants, taken tenants to court and garnished their wages when they tried to skip out without paying. Never have had a tenant even raise their voice to me. Guess I need to work on that landlord skill set.
I actually just asked my lawyer the same question. I have an LLC so I'm legally the manager of the LLC. My lawyer suggests saying less and only answers if asked. For me, it's not about being dishonest or unable to mange professionally. It is about 1) Safety 2) Legal protection 3) Getting an honest opinion about the property. I've represented myself as the owner and PM before. When I am the PM, I find that potential renters are able to give me honest opinion that I can't get as an owner, which help tremendously in renting the property out.
- Real Estate Agent · Circleville, OH · Member since 2008 · 633 posts · 488 votes10y
Both plus a partner.
Regardless of your structure, you ALWAYS have a 'partner' in the business, whether it's the government wanting tax money, your insurance agent, the bank or a private lender, someone is guaranteed to be involved in your rental business in some form or fashion.In my case, I always represent myself as a "Managing partner" in the business. I explain to people that this means that I own part of the properties, am the full time manager, but also have investors or partners that I need to satisfy with performance. So far I've found this helping a bit when dealing with a person who doesn't want to do something. "Well, I do run a company and we have to answer to investors, you know, I'm not the only guy that makes decisions with what goes on here" can sometimes work wonders when dealing with stubborn people.
- Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
Why do so many think that dishonesty = professionalism?
Hubby and I have been small business owners for 27 years, and have always been honest about our ownership. There is no reason to change that policy now that we have tenants instead of customers. Yes, our RE investments are a business, and we are professional. We also treat our tenants with respect and expect the same in return.
But in regards to pretending to be a PM, we couldn't if we wanted to. When you live in a small town, everyone knows your business before you do.
:-) - 10yJohn CasmonPro MemberCincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Technically, I'm not the owner, my LLC is....
With that said, I usually just tell people I manage the building. If they press, I tell them my wife and I own it. Usually they are relieved because they know we will care more than someone who's hands off, but you certainly have to be cautious in case you get a nightmare tenant. When I screen potential applicants I pry into their personal lives. By the time I am done I know all the important financial and personal details of their lives including their SI#. If I find out they lie about anything I will immediately reject them as a tenant. After having trusted me enough to have bared their financial soles they deserve a certain degree of honesty from me in return.
When I meet a stranger on the street and introduce myself I give my real name. I believe all people whether they be tenants or customers deserve the same degree of respect. Landlords know who their tenants are and in return tenants deserve to know who their landlord is. It should be the law.
- Investor · Charlton, MA · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 3 votes10y
I maintain that I am a property manager myself.
I don't lord the land and I don't own it. The bank does. And I do have people to answer to, whether that be the bank or hard money lenders.
But since the bank did trust me to manage the property, it's just where I am, as a newbie in my first property. I would guess that as you become a seasoned investor you will acquire the personal confidence to some day proudly take ownership of your accomplishments.
It is difficult to have pride of ownership when you are not prepared to take ownership.
Where you are now and where you will be in the future will hopefully be a better place. Right now you have responsibilities to others, both financial and personal, that extent far beyond "property manager".
- Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes10y
Do you want your tenants to lie to you on the application? I bet you would reject them for this without thinking twice; so why to the tenant? This is an ethical issue. Lying is bad business practice. While I see the flip side of what others are trying to use this title for. Remember there is nothing wrong with telling your clients/tenants you need time to make the decision and may be do some research before making a decision that is in the best light of the property.
- Montreal, Québec · Member since 2016 · 133 posts · 19 votes10y
Originally posted by @Gail K.:
I usually tell folks (when asked) I'm the owner but I did get a chuckle once when I was cutting the grass at a property for rent and someone pulled into the driveway after seeing the For Rent sign. He got out of the car and started evaluating the house from the outside and I just kept on cutting the grass. He asked me if I knew how much it was renting for and I "guessed" at what I thought I heard the rent was. His comment was that he was pretty good at negotiating things and he felt he could "talk" the owner down on the rent a couple of hundred dollars. I said I didn't know about that; it was a pretty big house (five bedrooms, two bathrooms) but good luck if he could do it.
Gail
lol that's a good one! :)
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes10y
@Kirsten Ostby I don't go out of my way to say I am the owner, but if someone asks I am always honest. Lying is going to get you in trouble. This goes for all aspects of your business. Tell the truth.
Owner. Like others have mentioned, prospective tenants like to deal with the owners instead of agents / managers.
Like @Account Closed mentioned, honesty goes both ways. If I feel someone starts lying to me, then I am not going to consider them as tenants.
And I believed it gives me an edge when I rent my properties. I choose to deal with people I feel comfortable with. I tell them how I am as a landlord and even offer my ex-tenants as references.
I also start managing their expectations from the start e.g "I am not coming here to change a light bulb", "I expect them to deal with smaller issues" etc.
But for my C/D houses, I have a PM, and would never manage them myself.
- Rental Property Investor · West End, NC · Member since 2016 · 98 posts · 32 votes10y
It's interesting to hear everyone's personal view on this topic. Thanks for all of your input! Maybe this topic fits under the category of finding your personal investment philosophy. Meaning you have to find out what works best for you, and that method will not be the same for everyone.
I've decided to go the route of presenting myself as the Manager. If asked, I will be truthful and say I am one of the owners, but not the only owner. Thanks for that suggestion @Percy N. I have presented myself to my tenants as the owner/landlord for the past 8 years and I realized I don't care for it. For me, it was too personal. It may all be in my head, but presenting as the PM feels more professional to me.
Disclaimer: I grew up watching my dad manage his 6 SFRs in a low income area. His investment philosophy is to create passive income while also helping low income folks. He grew up poor with a widowed mother and 4 siblings. He has a heart for helping people who may have made poor financial choices or have come upon hard times. His rentals are very personal to him, but it has also caused him loads of stress. Tenants have taken advantage of his willingness to "help" them. He has been through many of the classic landlord horror stories. As I build my real estate portfolio I am quick to remember his experiences getting too involved with his tenants and his properties. This is one of the big reasons I want to treat my rentals and tenants in as professional manner as possible.
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