Is Section 8 Housing as bad as people say?
Rental Property Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 25 votes
Is Section 8 Housing as bad as people say?
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Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
8yOriginally posted by @Mathew Zorn:
I have a rental home in zip code 23513 and wanted to know if it's worth switching the home to section eight? I understand that section eight makes those that qualify pay for a small portion of the rent and section eight covers the rest. My concern is will they damage the home, who pays for the repairs (homeowner, section eight, or the tenant), how will that affect the neighbors, will section eight tenant be responsible for all utilities as well? If anyone has any stories to share as well as any other information that would be great!
You will always get two diametrically opposing views on section 8. Its one of the most polarizing real estate conversations. I am very much for it. The county/city pays you on time.. Always..The first month might be delayed due to administrative reasons, but from then onwards its like clockwork.
I have 1 Section 8 tenant right now, whom I have vetted like anyone else. They are good people. They pay their own utilities. No issues. They stay long term unlike 1 or 2 yrs for some other tenants. Eventually, I plan on making all my properties, at least in the state of Virginia, Section 8 properties.
Also, the county/city does yearly inspections. The tenants are at the mercy of the the city/county approving them for the next year. If they are found in violation of rules like authorized pets, authorized guests, drugs, damage to the property, they could lose their vouchers. Once they lose the vouchers, its not easy to get reinstated. There is always a huge waiting period. Huge demand for housing and not enough supply.
97 Replies
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Jody Schnurrenberger:
Keep in mind, I have only been looking into Section 8 and do not actually own any myself (yet). However, I can tell you somethings from my research. Be sure to get a PM in place first. In my town, there is only 1 Section 8 PM in the whole city. No one else will touch it. This concerns me because I read their management agreement and don't totally love it. (Nothing to do with S8, just other things in the agreement for any property they manage.) But if I go with Section 8, these are the people who will be managing for me.
At least in my area, the S8 PM said property damage only happens "occasionally" because they can lose their voucher if they damage the property. I feel like this is safer than regular low income because they have more incentive to keep the place in good order. Of course, there are no guarantees, but even regular middle class folks will sometimes trash an rental, so...
Talk to your local housing authority and read through the information packet they give you. (At least mine gave me one.) My PM also told me the going rate for the size and area of the houses I was looking at, which was at least $100 more than I was expecting.
The only real downside I've seen that doesn't come with normal rentals (besides the inspections, but for me, that's not a downside) is that if someone starts to work their way out of the program, there is a period of time when they don't make enough to easily cover the rent, but they make too much for S8 to cover most of it. A local friend has a tenant in that situation right now. She really likes the tenant, but the tenant got a job and S8 kicked her out of the program. She was finally able to get back in, but now S8 only pays something like $32 and the tenant struggles to pay the rest all at once. I suggested a compromise--The tenant could pay her rent in 2 installments with her paychecks instead of having to pay it all at the beginning of the month. Because my friend really likes her tenant and respects that she's trying to better herself and serve as a good example for her kids, my friend thought this was a great idea and is going to discuss it with her tenant. People should be rewarded, not punished, for getting a job. ;-)
With any entitlements people who will do more to stay in the program always outnumber people who will try to get out of it. There are plenty of people who work for cash so as not to lose their government benefits.
Such a society we live in...
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:
Originally posted by @Ray Reed:
i have dealt with both sect 8 and non sect 8. with sect 8 you do have to go thru the yearly inspections but for the most part it is to your benefit and they are mainly safety related items. i do not see sect 8 damaging your property any more than a non sect 8 tenant. as a matter of fact, there are more controls put in place with that program. the tenant or ex tenant cannot owe the landlord money or they risk getting kicked off the program. so if they leave your place damaged, they will have to answer to you and the program. They also cannot just up and leave the unit or break the lease. Sect 8 requires they get a written approval from the landlord. you should definitely screen well. Also you should take into account that section 8 factors the tenant's portion based on their income and affordability. Not every instance sect 8 is going to pay the majority of the rent. I have someone moving in Jan 1st that section 8 will pay $$645 and the tenant will pay $1005. Ideally i would rather sect 8 pay $1300 and the tenant pays $350 but this is a former tenant from years ago that i had a good rapport with. This is why you still would have to screen well because if the person has a history of paying late, you can be waiting for a bulk of your rent. Not sure if it is federal or not but in my state, we cannot charge late fees to sect 8 tenants in eviction court.
Hard to think about our tax money going subsidize a rent amount ($1650) higher than I have ever paid in my lifetime. Ray, no reflection on you whatsoever.
Yeah, well New Jersey ain't South Carolina.
- Fontana, CA · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 4 votes8y@BOB CRANEY What’s a good company to screen tenants history?
- 8yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
@Jody Schnurrenberger I have 2 Section 8 Properties and would love to have more. I do not use a PM.
Both of mine are in Greenville SC. The tenants take good care of my properties because they do not want to loose the free government assistance.
The Section 8 office provides free inspections on the properties so that the tenants keep the place in good condition. This also lets me know if I need to make any repairs.
I still run background checks on the tenants to make sure I end up with a quality tenant.
My current tenants have been with me for over 3 years each.
It was worked out very well for me and I have not had any issues.
@Brian Faust you wouldn't know the exact breakdown until after you started the paperwork. Not sure if i am supposed to do this but if someone already has section 8, i would ask them what their current rent is and how much are they responsible for. if it is someone who just got on the program, you would not know.
someone earlier commented that you will be waiting like the cable company for the inspections. In the 3 cities i deal with, they give you a specific time and they will even call you 20 minutes beforehand. I do not even go to the annual re-inspections. If i fail for anything, they will send me a report and i will have 30 days to fix it. I have never had a payment stop right away because of a failure.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Richard C.:
Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:
Originally posted by @Ray Reed:
i have dealt with both sect 8 and non sect 8. with sect 8 you do have to go thru the yearly inspections but for the most part it is to your benefit and they are mainly safety related items. i do not see sect 8 damaging your property any more than a non sect 8 tenant. as a matter of fact, there are more controls put in place with that program. the tenant or ex tenant cannot owe the landlord money or they risk getting kicked off the program. so if they leave your place damaged, they will have to answer to you and the program. They also cannot just up and leave the unit or break the lease. Sect 8 requires they get a written approval from the landlord. you should definitely screen well. Also you should take into account that section 8 factors the tenant's portion based on their income and affordability. Not every instance sect 8 is going to pay the majority of the rent. I have someone moving in Jan 1st that section 8 will pay $$645 and the tenant will pay $1005. Ideally i would rather sect 8 pay $1300 and the tenant pays $350 but this is a former tenant from years ago that i had a good rapport with. This is why you still would have to screen well because if the person has a history of paying late, you can be waiting for a bulk of your rent. Not sure if it is federal or not but in my state, we cannot charge late fees to sect 8 tenants in eviction court.
Hard to think about our tax money going subsidize a rent amount ($1650) higher than I have ever paid in my lifetime. Ray, no reflection on you whatsoever.
Yeah, well New Jersey ain't South Carolina.
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 363 posts · 143 votes8y
Originally posted by @Chinmay J.:
Originally posted by @Mathew Zorn:
I have a rental home in zip code 23513 and wanted to know if it's worth switching the home to section eight? I understand that section eight makes those that qualify pay for a small portion of the rent and section eight covers the rest. My concern is will they damage the home, who pays for the repairs (homeowner, section eight, or the tenant), how will that affect the neighbors, will section eight tenant be responsible for all utilities as well? If anyone has any stories to share as well as any other information that would be great!
You will always get two diametrically opposing views on section 8. Its one of the most polarizing real estate conversations. I am very much for it. The county/city pays you on time.. Always..The first month might be delayed due to administrative reasons, but from then onwards its like clockwork.
I have 1 Section 8 tenant right now, whom I have vetted like anyone else. They are good people. They pay their own utilities. No issues. They stay long term unlike 1 or 2 yrs for some other tenants. Eventually, I plan on making all my properties, at least in the state of Virginia, Section 8 properties.
Also, the county/city does yearly inspections. The tenants are at the mercy of the the city/county approving them for the next year. If they are found in violation of rules like authorized pets, authorized guests, drugs, damage to the property, they could lose their vouchers. Once they lose the vouchers, its not easy to get reinstated. There is always a huge waiting period. Huge demand for housing and not enough supply.
We have been working with Section 8 and non section 8 tenants, after some bad tenant we work better when the tenant has to pay a good portion of the rent because they have some skin on the game, if you decide to work with section 8 tenant, do your due diligence as they were normal tenants, do not be sorry
- Rental Property Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 25 votes8yThank you everyone for the responses! There’s mainly pros vice cons on section 8 but I’ll still do some more research for my area and see if this is a good fit for me!
- Real Estate Agent · Seneca, SC · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 19 votes8y
@John Underwood How did you originally get started with the program? Is it in all SC counties? When I briefly looked into it, it seemed to only be in a dozen or so towns here.
- 8yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Originally posted by @Tookie Nemchak:
@John Underwood How did you originally get started with the program? Is it in all SC counties? When I briefly looked into it, it seemed to only be in a dozen or so towns here.
Tookie,
The Greenville Housing Authority came and spoke at my Real Estate club meeting. That is how I learned about the program.
Not sure if they have section 8 in all counties or not, but it seems to be in all towns around me in Greer.
- Claremont, NH · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 5 votes8yI don't know what it is, but 1 out of 10 has worked out for me. most sadly have trashed my apartments.
I had a Section 8 tenant... once.
Less than a year in, dead of winter, got a scathing letter from the tenant... from jail. It seemed she blamed me for all her troubles. Said she found a bottle of flavored vodka in the basement.
House was trashed, holes in walls, missing appliances. I forget how much money the repairs and months of vacancy cost me but won't be doing that again.
YMMV
Gimer Law517 Reviews- Flipper · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 10 votes8y
We had section 8 tenants/clients for years. They were immigrants/refugees, awesome people and incredibly hospitable. It was a great thing. The only issues we had were (I believe) related to the fact that they were unfamiliar with some ways of doing things. We just had to educate them on how to do some things, like proper dish washing, if you can believe that. I believe you need to educate your clients no matter what. So many problem can be avoided by education, communication, and documentation of the two. Bottom line, we had a mostly good experience. Sect. 8 will require extra repairs and upkeep. Just make sure you rental is in good shape at any given time, and you should be good.
- Florham Park, NJ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 17 votes8ySection 8 is a program for low income families. You should screen section 8 tenants the same as cash paying tenants. Do a full credit and background check. Some section 8 tenants do work. We have working class section 8 tenants and they never give me problems. Good luck!
"The tenants take good care of my properties because they do not want to loose the free government assistance."
Welfare/charity is one of the underlying weaknesses in our society. At one time being on welfare was consider a embarrassment/shame. Today it is a aspiration that many strive to attain and hold on to. Landlords that live off of these tenants are indirectly perpetuating a system that encourages people to be leaches on society. Yes there are those that for medical reasons, mental primarily, deserve to be on assistance but that number is tiny compared to those that simply view the system as a free ride.
It is natural for hard working citizens to view these people as suffering hardships since from our perspective it would never be a life style of our choice. The real shame of it is that for the majority it is a voluntary life style choice often passed on from generation to generation. We know this because the majority of us have worked to overcome hardships in our lives so as to not be them. They work to not be us.
I would never chose to rent to any of them, not only as a business decision but also as a moral decision. They should be in government housing.
The only downside I've seen to section 8 is that some jurisdictions require an inspection prior to the tenant entering into a lease. They want the unit empty for that so that means your unit sits vacant for some short amount of time while you await the verdict of whether the building is approved. I was at a recent meetup where this was discussed and the Sec 8 speaker had no idea this was of such concern and was such an underlying factor as to why landlords don't join the program. If they can speed up their administrative stuff and not ask us to hold a unit empty while they go through the approval process then I imagine many more landlords would join the program.
- Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes8y
Well, it's not called Section 8 anymore. Its called "Housing Choice Voucher Program." I'm mostly neutral on it, with a couple of reservations.
On a good note, the housing voucher program does try to match their vouchers to the actual market rate for rents in the area. Vouchers will have different values based on the zip code of the property.
Vouchers are also based on whether or not utilities are paid by the landlord.
My reservations regard the initial start-up process. Between the inspections and the contract signings, etc., it can take up to 90 days before you first receive a rent check. They will pay you retroactively. And once you get on the program, you will receive rent payments promptly.And, whenever I've looked at properties with voucher tenants, they always seem to be beat up a little more than non-voucher rentals. I'm not talking about huge damages, but minor things, like the front panel on a kitchen or bathroom drawer is missing.
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Steven J.:
The only downside I've seen to section 8 is that some jurisdictions require an inspection prior to the tenant entering into a lease. They want the unit empty for that so that means your unit sits vacant for some short amount of time while you await the verdict of whether the building is approved. I was at a recent meetup where this was discussed and the Sec 8 speaker had no idea this was of such concern and was such an underlying factor as to why landlords don't join the program. If they can speed up their administrative stuff and not ask us to hold a unit empty while they go through the approval process then I imagine many more landlords would join the program.
It may change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and it would behoove the landlord to check how things are done in jurisdiction where the property is located.
In my case at least, the lease was already in place when the inspector showed up. The inspection was the last hurdle before everything was official. Think of it this way.. Why would the inspector waste his time and effort unless I was serious about renting it to the tenants. Last thing the county/city wants is the inspector showing up, doing his/her job and then me renting it to someone else. Unit sitting vacant for short period of time is not a bad thing. It allows the landlord go to in, make necessary touchups, clean the place nicely. This is the same reason why smart landlords will always account for about 8% vacancy.
Administrative stuff needs to speed up for sure.. But that's true with any government agency. One has to be patient. My issue, dealing with Prince William County officials was not, that 1 month's rent would be delayed, but the fact that lady I was dealing with was not very good with providing answers. I looked up the chief of finance and accounting on PWC website and sent him a nice email. The gentleman had all the answers I was looking for. At one point, I wanted to drop the famous Reagen line...."Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem...." on the lady, but given the fact that government was going to be paying me, I bit my tongue and shut up....lol
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Fred Heller:
Well, it's not called Section 8 anymore. Its called "Housing Choice Voucher Program." I'm mostly neutral on it, with a couple of reservations.
On a good note, the housing voucher program does try to match their vouchers to the actual market rate for rents in the area. Vouchers will have different values based on the zip code of the property.
Vouchers are also based on whether or not utilities are paid by the landlord.
My reservations regard the initial start-up process. Between the inspections and the contract signings, etc., it can take up to 90 days before you first receive a rent check. They will pay you retroactively. And once you get on the program, you will receive rent payments promptly.And, whenever I've looked at properties with voucher tenants, they always seem to be beat up a little more than non-voucher rentals. I'm not talking about huge damages, but minor things, like the front panel on a kitchen or bathroom drawer is missing.
For long term tenants, and getting paid on 1st of the month, I will very gladly take additional 10% wear and tear. Remember, the property needs to be inspected again the following year, and it is in the best interest of the tenants to be kind to the property, or they lose their vouchers.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Ug. Sometimes I wish BP had a screening process for people who are authorized to advise other people on the forums. Okay. I'm done venting....
Best to get your answers straight from the authority who governs the program.....
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Ug. Sometimes I wish BP had a screening process for people who are authorized to advise other people on the forums. Okay. I'm done venting....
Best to get your answers straight from the authority who governs the program.....
Not sure who/what you're referring to.
Fed funds are involved but since they are spent at the local level I imagine every state, county, locality has a different process. Probably why we are seeing so many different responses on this.
Gimer Law517 Reviews- Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 6 votes8yMatthew, I inherited a Section Eight property And the results are mixed. The rent checks always came in on time, that is not the issue. The issue is most of the tenants I had did not care about the property. I had to be vigilant with inspections and walk around the property weekly . Small things like they would not bring the Garabage cans to the end of the driveway at times the night before. The garbage company would not walk on the property to pick up garbage, therefore garbage would overflow after the first week. Guess who cleaned it up! Hallway windows would be left open In heavy summer rains. The screens were in but they would not take the time to shut the windows. They didn't realize rain would come in the window! These are just a few items that add to the cost. Good Luck
- Rental Property Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 25 votes8y
@Joseph Tramonte that’s what I am afraid of. I think after I have a few more rentals I will then go section 8 on the one after that. I don’t think I would have a problem with my first house being section 8 but this is the first home that I owened and lived in and had all of my kids with the exception of my last child (fourth child). Current tenant is taking care of the home but is causing some issues that has caused her over $2,000 in fees. Just weighing out much options for sure.
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Joseph Tramonte:
Matthew,
I inherited a Section Eight property
And the results are mixed. The rent checks always came in on time, that is not the issue.
The issue is most of the tenants I had did not care about the property.
I had to be vigilant with inspections and walk around the property weekly .Small things like they would not bring the Garabage cans to the end of the driveway at times the night before.
The garbage company would not walk on the property to pick up garbage, therefore garbage would overflow after the first week. Guess who cleaned it up!
Hallway windows would be left open
In heavy summer rains. The screens were in but they would not take the time to shut the windows. They didn't realize rain would come in the window! These are just a few items that add to the cost. Good LuckThat's why vetting is so important. Bad habits like these are something that the old landlord will more likely than not tell you. Vetting Sec 8 tenants is not hard (if real info is provided). Most of these are lifelong tenants. It's not a case where young adults were living with mommy and daddy until graduating and now wanting to rent their place, or someone who owned house until they moved to a new city, want to rent because they are so new.
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Mathew Zorn:
@Joseph Tramonte that’s what I am afraid of. I think after I have a few more rentals I will then go section 8 on the one after that. I don’t think I would have a problem with my first house being section 8 but this is the first home that I owened and lived in and had all of my kids with the exception of my last child (fourth child). Current tenant is taking care of the home but is causing some issues that has caused her over $2,000 in fees. Just weighing out much options for sure.
Don't do something that you are totally unsure of, but at the same time don't be afraid of taking calculated risks and stretching yourself out of your comfort zone..
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