How do I legally reject section 8?

Investor · Quincy, MA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 11 votes

When someone responds to a rental ad and asks if section 8 is accepted, what's the best way to say no to avoid discrimination?

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member

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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes

By not saying no. Public Assistance Recipient is a protected class in Massachusetts. If you do not want to people on section 8, you should choose to invest in the stock market instead of real estate. It is not uncommon to receive fines in the tens of thousands of dollars for discrimination in Ma.

Look at the case of Linder V. Boston Fair Housing commission, then decide if you want to discriminate or not.

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Eric C.
Investor · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2017 · 207 posts · 201 votes
8y
The property is not approved for section 8.
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
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By not saying no. Public Assistance Recipient is a protected class in Massachusetts. If you do not want to people on section 8, you should choose to invest in the stock market instead of real estate. It is not uncommon to receive fines in the tens of thousands of dollars for discrimination in Ma.
Look at the case of Linder V. Boston Fair Housing commission, then decide if you want to discriminate or not.
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Philip Williams
Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 385 posts · 702 votes
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The best way is perhaps.......not to discriminate???
4 Reply
Heather DeGeorge
Investor · Naperville, IL · Member since 2010 · 105 posts · 52 votes
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We say that we are not approved for section 8--which is the truth.
5 Reply
Dennis Vo
Long Beach , CA · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 24 votes
8y
@Michael, if your property qualified for Section 8, and your potential tenant voucher matched your rental requirements, then why not rent to your potential tenant(s)?
Some of my best tenants are from Section 8. There are many advantages with Section 8 program
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Wesley W.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
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Our local HA (not sure if this is consistent throughout the US) requires landlords to offer a one year lease to any Section 8 voucher recipient. Since we only offer MTM leases, we cannot accept any section 8 tenants due to that requirement. My response from inquiries regarding Section 8 is something to effect of: "Unfortunately, our lease does not conform to Section 8 requirements. Good luck in your search!"
5 Reply
Marc Winter
Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
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It is critically important that you know your state's and municipality's laws regarding section 8 portable voucher recipient's rights regarding if they are a 'protected' class.
Additionally, you need to have the local section 8 housing authority 'market rent' written guidelines. If your asking rent is above the maximum guidelines of the section 8, and the tenant does not qualify to pay the difference, then section 8 will not approve the rental.
When a potential tenant contacts us and asks "do you accept section 8?", we respond with, "do you currently have a portable voucher, and with what Housing Authority is it registered?" If they do not yet have a voucher, or the HA does not cover your rental location, there is little more to discuss.
That being said, if the recipient is not in a protected class, and you don't accept section 8 recipients as an across-the-board policy, then it in my opinion, is not discriminatory.
My question to you is, why would you choose NOT to accept a section 8 participant? In our management business, as in life, we find there are good and not-so-good people in all walks of life. Our job is to keep the same (high) standards of qualification of individuals that are applying to rent a unit we manage.
I'd advise to look to the qualifications of the individual as compared to your written approval standards, and accept or reject based upon that, not based upon a certain group or class of applicant or their (legal) source of income.
Good luck.
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Heather DeGeorge
Investor · Naperville, IL · Member since 2010 · 105 posts · 52 votes
8y
Note that section 8 being a protected class and your requirements as a landlord can vary within the state. They are not a protected class in all of IL but they are protected in Chicago—so a landlord there cannot decline them if they meet the overall criteria. Be sure to find out the law where you are.
I get a lot of inquiries about my currently available property in a town that spans two counties. When I tell them we are not approved for section 8, I also point out to them that we are in a different county than their Zillow or Truliia profile indicated they wanted.
Also—we have more housing voucher programs than section 8 where I am. Sometimes ones I’ve never heard of. We always ask for the name of the program so we can look into it but honestly the unit is almost always rented before we can get that far.
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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
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@Michael Zack I have 2 section 8 rentals and would like to have more. You screen the section 8 applicants same as anyone else. The program pays 110% of market rents. They inspect your properties for free to ensure tenants are not damaging property and to let you know of maintenance issues. The tenants take care of your property because they do not want to loose the government subsidy. I don't have any negatives to the program.
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Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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Check your rent against FMR on HUD site. If you are above the amount they allow that is what you tell potential applicants. If you havent been section 8 inspected you can also say it doesnt currently have an inspection. In MA they do prosecute so i wouldnt say you cant apply. I can appreciate not wanting to deal with another government agency especially in Massachusetts.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
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@Michael Zack lots of responses here, but keep in mind each state has different laws. As @Russell Brazil pointed out in your state they are a protected class. That means you would be discriminating by not accepting section 8. If you are taking advice here make sure it is specific to Massachusetts.
Or as @Philip Williams simply stated, the best way to avoid discrimination is to not discriminate.
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Cara Lonsdale
Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
HUD does not require any landlord to just accept any section 8 recipient regardless of credit or qualifying criteria, unless there are specific state laws that I am not aware of.
HUD still allows for landlords to apply their application criteria and deposit requirements to section 8 prospects. IF the tenant doesn't meet your leasing criteria, then a denial shouldn't be an issue.
IF the tenant meets your leasing criteria, there shouldn't be any reason NOT to lease to them. They are a Tenant just like any other tenant who has met your leasing criteria PLUS, as an added bonus, they have a government entity backing the payment of their rent. It doesn't get much better than that.
HUD has to approve the property as well, so be prepared for an inspection.
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Kathy Johnson
Real Estate Professional · Hayfork, CA · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 212 votes
8y
My state does not require that we accept Section 8 and we choose not to because about 15 years ago the Section 8 program in our state unilaterally reduced all Section 8 existing rents by 15% with no notice to landlords. We choose not to deal with a program that has a history of not honoring their contracts.
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Ihe O.
Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Michael Zack:
When someone responds to a rental ad and asks if section 8 is accepted, what's the best way to say no to avoid discrimination?
Here is my advice.
Replace the words section 8 in your question with a protected class of your choosing
If that doesn't work replace the words section 8 in any answer your given with a protected class of your choosing.
Glad to have been of assistance.
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Ann Bellamy
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
@Russell Brazil is correct, you cannot refuse to accept section 8 in MA, even if your unit is not section 8 approved. You can, however, refuse in NH. The laws are very different in the 2 states.
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Heather DeGeorge
Investor · Naperville, IL · Member since 2010 · 105 posts · 52 votes
8y
@John Underwood—market rent for my current unit is $50/mo less than what I have been getting for 5 years already (which at this point is $100-$150/mo under market). It’s not always 110% of market but it’s not a pittance.
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Greg H.Pro Member
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Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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Originally posted by @Ann Bellamy:

@Russell Brazil is correct, you cannot refuse to accept section 8 in MA, even if your unit is not section 8 approved. You can, however, refuse in NH. The laws are very different in the 2 states.
Surely they cannot force you to make repairs when the unit fails an inspection correct? I assume many older properties could have non conforming windows and such that could exceed big $$$$$ to rectify
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Ann Bellamy
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
@Greg H., yes they can, and yes they do and yes it could. Landlords go under in the People's Republic of Massachusetts all the time.
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Rick BassettBusiness Member
Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
8y
As others have said, accepting Section 8 (or others with Housing Assistance) isn't always a bad thing as long as you screen the potential tenants exactly like everyone else.
What we find is that our local housing office tends to eliminate most chances of Section 8 tenancy by their bureaucratic processes. For instance; 1) They require an inspection of an empty unit, by the time that our houses are empty they are already rerented with market rate tenants. We tell the housing office that we will keep advertising it until we have a signed lease, which they won't authorize until after the inspection. 2) They always insist on lower than market rate rent, which we won't accept, even though the federal guideline tables provide for more generous rents. While we are required to accept all legal forms of payment, we aren't legally required to accept less rent for a person with housing assistance than advertised.
Rick
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Genny Li
Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 431 posts · 281 votes
8y
I can’t even imagine the horrors that are being done to intact historic homes to bring them into Section 8 compliance in MA in a financially sane way. Peeing paint on the exterior of a second story window. Sure, if the home has no integrity, just have all the original trim ripped off and cover it with vinyl. But if it does.... It makes me sick. I’ve seen enough mangled cornices in Baltimore’s brick row houses. That would be 10000x worse to be forced to do it to any house.
:((((((
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Roger S.
Investor · TX · Member since 2015 · 393 posts · 290 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ann Bellamy:

@Greg H., yes they can, and yes they do and yes it could. Landlords go under in the People's Republic of Massachusetts all the time.
God bless Texas.
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Jessica Pembie
Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes
4y
What I am noticing many people are advising (without straight up saying so) is to find out what the section 8 programs limits or requirements are for the tenant or the property they are moving into, and basically make the lease terms or the rental unit or the monthly asking to not conform. If you just cant do any of that then when they ask you should waste their time sending messages back and forth asking them "what area is their voucher in?" and "for how much? Instead of just assuming that they didn't bother checking those things before they contacted you.(Really make them feel like you assume they are just contacting every open apartment and not that they are already checked) and so that by the time you get to possibly showing them the listing in person, hopefully one of those people who have funding sources you don't look down upon and worthy of your precious listing will have applied. You sound like a classy guy. As others have said Section 8 tenants can be great reliable tenants and they can be terrible just as every other demographic and the protected class wouldnt need to be a thing if people would have not assumed the worst and made it hard to find a place. The other thing you could do is not have an apartment to pass inspection which is actually the reason many landlords dont like section 8. God forbid they actually have a decent place to rent someone.
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Danielle Sullivan
Member since 2022 · 3 posts · 0 votes
4y
Quote from @Jessica Pembie:

What I am noticing many people are advising (without straight up saying so) is to find out what the section 8 programs limits or requirements are for the tenant or the property they are moving into, and basically make the lease terms or the rental unit or the monthly asking to not conform. If you just cant do any of that then when they ask you should waste their time sending messages back and forth asking them "what area is their voucher in?" and "for how much? Instead of just assuming that they didn't bother checking those things before they contacted you.(Really make them feel like you assume they are just contacting every open apartment and not that they are already checked) and so that by the time you get to possibly showing them the listing in person, hopefully one of those people who have funding sources you don't look down upon and worthy of your precious listing will have applied. You sound like a classy guy. As others have said Section 8 tenants can be great reliable tenants and they can be terrible just as every other demographic and the protected class wouldnt need to be a thing if people would have not assumed the worst and made it hard to find a place. The other thing you could do is not have an apartment to pass inspection which is actually the reason many landlords dont like section 8. God forbid they actually have a decent place to rent someone.

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Danielle Sullivan
Member since 2022 · 3 posts · 0 votes
4y
Quote from @Danielle Sullivan:

Quote from @Jessica Pembie:

What I am noticing many people are advising (without straight up saying so) is to find out what the section 8 programs limits or requirements are for the tenant or the property they are moving into, and basically make the lease terms or the rental unit or the monthly asking to not conform. If you just cant do any of that then when they ask you should waste their time sending messages back and forth asking them "what area is their voucher in?" and "for how much? Instead of just assuming that they didn't bother checking those things before they contacted you.(Really make them feel like you assume they are just contacting every open apartment and not that they are already checked) and so that by the time you get to possibly showing them the listing in person, hopefully one of those people who have funding sources you don't look down upon and worthy of your precious listing will have applied. You sound like a classy guy. As others have said Section 8 tenants can be great reliable tenants and they can be terrible just as every other demographic and the protected class wouldnt need to be a thing if people would have not assumed the worst and made it hard to find a place. The other thing you could do is not have an apartment to pass inspection which is actually the reason many landlords dont like section 8. God forbid they actually have a decent place to rent someone.

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Danielle Sullivan
Member since 2022 · 3 posts · 0 votes
4y
This is a response from the Section 8 tenant 68-year-old female high credit score of over 700 never late on a payment in my life on a mortgage or rent I'm on the other side I cannot get a decent place to live because I have a hood voucher only because of becoming disabled and Senior
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