Please critique this flooring quote

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Please critique this flooring quote

Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes

Hello all, I am a newbie investor- bought my 1st out of state rental . The property is a 3bed 1.5 bath- needs new LVP flooring in kitchen/living room/hallway/bathroom and basement . Bedrooms have hardwood- which need to be refinished.  Total home size is 2000 sft, finished above ground is 1000 sft.

I got a quote that seems high to me (when compared to other quotes) - I am copy pasting it here . As I have no experience in this, would appreciate any suggestions.

Flooring:
• Living Room / Hallway: Remove living room and hallway carpet, including padding and tack
strips (approximately 300 square feet), legally dispose. Provide and install new LVP. Cost is
based on Lumber Liquidators #10044289. Provide and install approximately 75 linear feet of
new clear shoe molding. Cost has been included to stain and polyurethane new shoe.
o Total Cost: $3,224.00
• Hardwood Refinishing – Remove shoe molding throughout all three (3) bedrooms, legally
dispose. Cost includes rough and finish sanding existing hardwood floors, applying stain, and a
minimum of three (3) polyurethane coats on approximately 450 square feet. Provide and install
approximately 170 linear feet of new primed shoe molding in all three (3) bedrooms.
o Total Cost: $2,689.00
• Bathroom – Remove existing vinyl flooring, legally dispose. Replace underlayment as
necessary. Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289),
approximately 35 square feet. Provide and install approximately 15 linear feet of new primed
shoe molding.
o Total Cost: $450.00
• Kitchen – Remove existing vinyl flooring, legally dispose. Replace underlayment as necessary.
Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289), approximately 170
square feet. Provide and install approximately 40 linear feet of new primed shoe molding.
o Total Cost: $2,186.00
• Basement – Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289),
approximately 390 square feet. No cost for new subfloor. Cost includes providing and installing
approximately 80 linear feet of new primed ranch base molding.
o Total Cost: $3,523.00

o Total Flooring Cost: $12,072.00

2Reply
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Brian Beck
Flipper/Rehabber · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2018 · 96 posts · 58 votes
6y

@Michael King is accurate, if you are comfortable and have the time (especially with the LVP) you could save a ton by doing it yourself.  I tell our homeowners this all the time, floating floors go down quickly once you get past the first two or three courses and get your spacing down, the bulk of the cost is in the installation.

With regards to your quote above, as a Class A General Contractor in Washington DC, we'd charge the below:

Living Room/Hallway:  ~$2,550,  if you go directly thru our flooring subcontractor you are probably closer to $1925.

Hardwood Refinish: $3,050 (GC), $2,300 (Flooring Vendor)

Bathroom (Assumes Toilet is Pulled): $350 (GC), $265 (Flooring Vendor)

Kitchen: $1550 (GC), $1150 (Flooring Vendor)

Basement:  $3120 (GC), $2,350 (Flooring Vendor)

Total:  $10,620 as a general contractor, If you were to go direct to our flooring vendor it'd be closer to $8,000

Based on what I know our flooring contractors pay for the work, the sand/refinish at $6/Ft may have a little wiggle room depending on the company's structure and overhead.  The prices on the LVP seem a little high.   Definitely paying General Contractor pricing (not custom home pricing, but GC pricing none the less based on DC pricing.

I'd get a few other bids from local vendors to do your due diligence.  I wouldn't recommend necessarily going with the cheapest bid purely on price, as a contractor I've made that mistake before with subcontractors.   Their is some truth to the 'You get what you pay for.'   I'd recommend getting a few more bids and check their references and confirm their licensing is in order also.

Hope that helps, if you do have questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Jim K.

    Thanks a ton.

    Interesting point of view on old homes /retail pricing in Harrisburg area.  The deal I got is actually part of an estate sale and I was able to negotiate a decent price as the (sellers)kids did'n't want to negotiate much I guess. 

    Clearly, I need to  educate myself regarding these flooring / shoe molding terminology. Don't understand much about these things yet. No wonder I am being quoted such rates. 

    Good to know about the handyman registration thing.  Thnx!

    0Reply
  • Maurice Smith
    Member since 2018 · 211 posts · 164 votes
    6y

    12k for install and labor just for some lvp!? sounds like a rip off to me .  lol i paid less ( $ 9400) including all new appliances  for a complete remodel on a 2b/2b rental 

     https://photos.google.com/shar...

    i would consult/hire a property manager and see if you can use their resources to get the job done for cheaper.

    1Reply
  • Parker Eberhard
    Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap the one thing about your quote that nobody mentioned is that it includes demo and dump fees, which can be substantial. The weight of all of the material being removed is what will drive the disposal fees, and all of this old flooring is heavy

    1Reply
  • Gary L Wallman
    Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hello all, I am a newbie investor- bought my 1st out of state rental . The property is a 3bed 1.5 bath- needs new LVP flooring in kitchen/living room/hallway/bathroom and basement . Bedrooms have hardwood- which need to be refinished.  Total home size is 2000 sft, finished above ground is 1000 sft.

    I got a quote that seems high to me (when compared to other quotes) - I am copy pasting it here . As I have no experience in this, would appreciate any suggestions.

    Flooring:
    • Living Room / Hallway: Remove living room and hallway carpet, including padding and tack
    strips (approximately 300 square feet), legally dispose. Provide and install new LVP. Cost is
    based on Lumber Liquidators #10044289. Provide and install approximately 75 linear feet of
    new clear shoe molding. Cost has been included to stain and polyurethane new shoe.
    o Total Cost: $3,224.00
    • Hardwood Refinishing – Remove shoe molding throughout all three (3) bedrooms, legally
    dispose. Cost includes rough and finish sanding existing hardwood floors, applying stain, and a
    minimum of three (3) polyurethane coats on approximately 450 square feet. Provide and install
    approximately 170 linear feet of new primed shoe molding in all three (3) bedrooms.
    o Total Cost: $2,689.00
    • Bathroom – Remove existing vinyl flooring, legally dispose. Replace underlayment as
    necessary. Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289),
    approximately 35 square feet. Provide and install approximately 15 linear feet of new primed
    shoe molding.
    o Total Cost: $450.00
    • Kitchen – Remove existing vinyl flooring, legally dispose. Replace underlayment as necessary.
    Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289), approximately 170
    square feet. Provide and install approximately 40 linear feet of new primed shoe molding.
    o Total Cost: $2,186.00
    • Basement – Provide and install new LVP (cost based on lumber liquidators #10044289),
    approximately 390 square feet. No cost for new subfloor. Cost includes providing and installing
    approximately 80 linear feet of new primed ranch base molding.
    o Total Cost: $3,523.00

    o Total Flooring Cost: $12,072.00

     Ani,

    Those prices are insane. I can have hardwood refinished at $3 a square foot. LVP installed at $4 material and labor included with new base molding also included.  Shoe molding or quarter round is amateurish, yet your guy want's to charge you up the ying yang.  Find a new dude.

    2Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    So you're handling this renovation from 2 1/2 hours away in New Jersey, you don't know how ranch floor trim is different from shoe molding, you don't know about Pennsylvania contractor registration, you aren't able to do any of this work, electricity is supposedly grounded to plumbing (do you know what this means?) and the sellers sold suspiciously low on an estate sale.

    Hope you learn quick.

    3Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:

    @Ani Kap the one thing about your quote that nobody mentioned is that it includes demo and dump fees, which can be substantial. The weight of all of the material being removed is what will drive the disposal fees, and all of this old flooring is heavy

    Come on, Parker, this is Harrisburg, PA, where the nights are long and dark. This is going straight into the dumpster behind the nearest Walmart.

    2Reply
  • Rick Wade
    Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap

    If you have 2000 sq ft that comes out to $6 a sq ft, materials and labor. That does not seem unreasonable if you are working with a contractor. If you buy and stage the materials, then find a handyman, you can really save some of the above cost. You could also do the whole project yourself and safe even more. The more work you are willing to do, the more you save.

    Good luck.

    Rick

    2Reply
  • Curt Smith
    Rental Property Investor · Clarkston, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap in Atlanta I can get contractor pricing of quality lvp for $3.50sqft, at retail expect $5sqft. Total.

    I suppose in expensive areas total installation might be 6-7sqft.

    So 2000x6=12k.

    Why do the basement? Don't put good money in unfinished basements. Fyi There's very very nice cement paint where you throw sprinkle flakes. I like beige paint mixed brown and white flakes.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Maurice Smith Thats a good idea- I am planning on using a property manager anyways- might as well get them now and see if they can help.

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    So I have to ask this question. We're discussing the pricing of what seems like pretty nice flooring for a rental. Don't know what class of rental this is but in any of our properties, I'd cover the wood floors vs refinish them as covering usually costs less. They will still be hiding under there for a later restoration if desired. The longer we have rentals, the more we tend to "harden" them against tenant damage. Our flooring in the house we live in is about 20 years old and in good shape. (carpet, laminate, vinyl) Tenants seem to wreck floors at a higher rate than owners so carefully consider that what you're doing is best for a rental and not what you would do in your own home. You may be "overimproving" this property. Are you?

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Jim K.

    That is correct. 

    I realize that this is completely out of my skill set. Hence, I spend time here /blogs/youtube to learn - which is why I truly appreciate all the comments here. 

    Got this deal after making 10-15 offers last year. Got 2 different home inspections/ termite/mold etc before buying. They said the home was grounded to plumbing which is what many homes built in the 1960s were .  Only time will tell if these inspectors were worth their fee.

    Was able to get the deal at a decent price/ good loan terms- will figure out the minutiae with time. Tons and tons of information and helpful people (like yourself) out here in BP and online. Thnx! 

    2Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed

    You're right, that was snarky. I'm sorry, Ani, everyone's got to start somewhere. If it was easy everyone would do it.

    Good luck on this deal, and don't hesitate to post and tag me when things come up that I might be able to help with. I'll send you a connect request.

    2Reply
  • Parker Eberhard
    Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
    6y

    @Rick Wade handy man won’t be licensed, bonded and insured, nor will they warrantee the product. This may not matter at the end of the day, but is the reason that he is paying more for the professional install

    0Reply
  • Rick Wade
    Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 40 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:

    @Rick Wade handy man won’t be licensed, bonded and insured, nor will they warrantee the product. This may not matter at the end of the day, but is the reason that he is paying more for the professional install

    Parker

    I do not believe one needs to be licensed to do flooring. I have used many handymen that were insured, and an individual (such as a handyman) cannot get bonded. Bonding is only for employees or subs. Most states have a mandate of 1 years as to how long someone needs to insure their work. Check with your city to find out about this. If the flooring is installed correctly, the manufacturer will warranty it, but in over 20 years of remodeling, I have never had a product fail from manufacture defect. I have calls for products that failed, but it is much rarer than one would think. Also, they will only give you money back on the product or new product, not labor. 

    Thanks

    Rick

    1Reply
  • Rick Wade
    Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap Way to hang in there looking for properties. I have put in about a dozen bids to date and still waiting, but getting closer every day. The hunt is fun!

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Curt Smith:

    @Ani Kap in Atlanta I can get contractor pricing of quality lvp for $3.50sqft, at retail expect $5sqft. Total.

    I suppose in expensive areas total installation might be 6-7sqft.

    So 2000x6=12k.

    Why do the basement? Don't put good money in unfinished basements. Fyi There's very very nice cement paint where you throw sprinkle flakes. I like beige paint mixed brown and white flakes.

    This is an excellent idea. When you say cement paint- do you mean epoxy paint mixed with sprinkle flakes. Would save a ton of money.

    Was originally planning on making half the basement into a bedroom ( its separated that way) thats why I wanted LVP. But I suppose the cement paint w/flakes would serve as a good durable ( and cheaper floor ) also. 

    1Reply
  • Billy Smith
    Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 719 posts · 313 votes
    6y

    tear out the old floor  that can save nice chunk of change all you need ,hammer ,flat bar ,Channel locks 

    1Reply
  • Parker Eberhard
    Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap don’t install good flooring in basement until waterproofing is 100% taken care of as well

    3Reply
  • Victor LebeguePro Member
    Investor · Maplewood, MN · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap as most investors, you may certainly think the pricing is high. I'm a General Contractor and we focus on pricing to stay in business and take care of all aspects of the project.

    There pricing is on the upper end however, you shouldn't have to lift a finger for them to do this project. That includes cleaning. Flooring is easy as far as knowing how to install but it is labor intensive on your body. They are also going to go through and make sure to patch/level/fill any spots necessary.

    If it's a flip I'd be inclined to pay the higher pricing but if it's a rental I'd look for rental grade installation.

    I notice one Contractor on here based pricing on the material costs. We don't provide materials at cost because we have to warranty the material and labor. If you have decent employees that make $20 + an hr and carry all required insurance, offer benefits you can't charge $40per hr to stay in business.

    So as a REI investor myself, I also try to do things with the purpose of helping the economy. That includes providing quality jobs to people that do things the rite way instead of evading state and local laws. I'd rather see someone getting a quality wage and benefits providing for their family than someone just taking cash and not really being responsible as a business owner with it. Everyone has their way though and that's just mine!

    2Reply
  • Joseph ODonovanPro Member
    Property Manager · Ridley, PA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 449 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap I recently had new LVP flooring installed in one of my properties. I purchased the flooring, quarter round and transition strips at Home Depot. 1st and 2nd floors, total of 1050 sq ft. My contractor charged charged me $2.25 sq ft for install, removal and disposal of wall to wall carpet thru-out, sand, stain and paint stairs and risers. Your quote is on the high side. I recommend getting multiple quotes and or you purchase the products directly from retailer and have contractor pick it up for you.

    1Reply
  • Will C.
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap

    Also, I would just carpet the bedrooms. Will be cheaper in the long run. Refinish if you plan to sell.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Jim K.

    Cheers!

    @Rick Wade

    The hunt is fun indeed !

    @John Teachout 

    Its a class b at best long term rental- thats  why hiping LVP would be a good value durable option

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Joseph ODonovan

    Thanks. Agreed. I am planning on buying material myself. 

    @Will C.

    I am trying to avoid using carpets - as they've to be changed between tenants n tenants ruin them. Plus- allergies.

    0Reply
  • Phil Denton
    New to Real Estate · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2019 · 51 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @John Underwood agreed. My wife and I did our entire downstairs (1100 sqft) in LVP ourselves including base molding. Yeah, it took us a little while to get a hang of it but it was good experience and it really is super simple. Ours even came out of the box with underlayment attached so it went very quickly.

    0Reply
  • April Rodgers
    Property Manager · New Braunfels, TX · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Ani Kap LVT / LVP typically is $4-$6 per SF installed. You should triple bid it. Just remember if it seems too good to be true then it probably is. I don’t recommend going with the lowest quote. Usually middle is good.

    1Reply
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