VRBO Guest - damaged our place and harassing

VRBO Guest - damaged our place and harassing

Rental Property Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2017 · 131 posts · 101 votes

I’ll try to be as concise as possible:

Had a nasty guest over Christmas. Left a bunch of trash (we charge $15/bag), she asked about this the night before checkout and confirmed the cost. We leave a starter pack of everything needed, including at least 3 trash bags. They were there 4 nights.

Had almost no communication from guest while there. It was near record colds so I had asked them to drop the faucets. Crickets. But we had no burst lines, so I assume they did.

After checkout our cleaner gave us the report:

Trashed, disgusting, broken s’mores sticks,

did not check out on time. Maybe just chance but the hot tub is messed up after they left (could just be coincidence). Charged us extra for the extra effort. They couldn’t clear in time for the next guest. Thankfully the incoming guests are great and understanding.

We charge the guest for the broken s’more sticks, trash bags (4 according to our cleaner), and extra cleaning required. Guest of course fights it. Denies leaving any trash. We provide pictures. Argues the amount of bags it takes. Accuses our cleaners of lying. Calls us 5+ times, 20+ messages. Berates me on the phone for 20 minutes.

Long story short, we don’t have pictures of the bags of trash just of what was left behind. We say, we have no reason to not trust our cleaners, we take her word for not breaking the s’more sticks and using the wooden, disposable ones, and we waived the extra cleaning fee. We said that however we will not dispute the number of bags. So from $150 to $60. This was charged to the security deposit of $500.

She now says we indicate $10/bag. Lie. She said she’s done multiple Airbnb stays and all 5-stars. Maybe so, but why then book with us through VRBO? We’re on Airbnb too. The only reason I see that’s not questionable is to build a reputation on VRBO also.

What would you do? Respond at all at this point? No matter what we have said so far has been acceptable. We’re honestly worried this person is a bit crazy and would like to block from messaging us further.

Obviously $60 is not much but the principle of it all just irks me. I’m generally the go along person and say just ignore these small potatoes. But at this point, I’m ticked off.

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Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y

I've never heard of anyone charging for bags of trash or the bags themselves.  I leave a box of them so they can use all they want.  I ask them to take out their trash, but if they don't, I certainly don't charge them for it.  The cleaner just does it, not a big deal.

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  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    I’d just move on. Major holiday Guests usually stink. just is what it is

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y

    I'd let it go, not worth the stress.

    I also leave plenty of trash bags. They are cheap and I want encourage all the trash to be disposed of properly in bags.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I've never heard of anyone charging for bags of trash or the bags themselves.  I leave a box of them so they can use all they want.  I ask them to take out their trash, but if they don't, I certainly don't charge them for it.  The cleaner just does it, not a big deal.

  • Dave StokleyBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 699 posts · 799 votes
    3y

    Take the L and move on with your life. Leaving a review detailing your experience can be cathartic. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Smoky Mountains, TN · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 984 votes
    3y

    If you incurred fees, then charge fees.  This won't be your only bad guest.

  • Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
    3y

    I feel like charging for trash is a little over the top. Just add some additional money to your listing price. Guests who just spent likely a ton of money for Christmas booking, generally don’t like being hit up for $10 a bag fee. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew Simms:


    Obviously $60 is not much but the principle of it all just irks me. I’m generally the go along person and say just ignore these small potatoes. But at this point, I’m ticked off.

    Your comment: "Obviously $60 is not much"

    Maybe I missed it, did you say in your listing that you have a cleaning fee? If so, you opened the door to interpretation of what that means. I think the stink came because you charged extra. Rightly or wrongly, they reacted. 

    Remember, It's a hospitality business "bad reviews means bad news".

    At the rate I bill for my time, I can afford to spend 9.57 minutes on that amount. For now, I'd take my sanity and worry about it later. Much later.  "Forgetta 'bout it".

  • Investor · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 754 votes
    3y

    I would move on. Not worth the headache. Onward and upward. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    This is an awful amount of stress over $90. Let it go and chalk it up to the cost of business. In the future, instruct your cleaner that anything "extra" should be documented with photos. If the oven is dripping grease and requires an extra hour of cleaning, take a picture first. If the floor is covered in muddy boot prints or dog hair, take a picture first.

    And when you decide to charge something, charge it, share the list of charges along with documentation, and move on. Don't spend 20 minutes on the phone arguing with someone.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    1) Yes, document everything before cleaning. Make sure your cleaner knows that if they don't provide a picture, then you ain't paying them for the extra work. That will get their attention.

    2) I don't get the trash bag limit....? My Christmas guests left behind 6 bags full, plus the boxes from their gifts. Threw them in my truck and got rid of them. I charge extra for Holiday stays exactly for reasons like this.

    3) Let this one go, not worth it.

    4) Make sure you're charging enough to run this business correctly. A person on vacation doesn't want to do extra work and have extra hassles, right? 

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    I agree with everyone. Let it go and move on. Get rid of the bag fee, I have no idea why that is there.

    Nickel and dimeing guests is a surefire way to get bad reviews.

    Communication issues are a part of the game. Some are very good and some just disappear into the wilderness and are gone with the wind.

    Our last guests were Thanksgiving and they were a bit terrible. Lots of extra trash (expected). Mud everywhere. It looked like they tried to track in mud. The worst, smoking. We have a strict no smoking policy anywhere on the property.

    They left us a 5 star review. I left them a 2 star review. They didn't burn the house down so they get a star for that. I called them out for smoking and the sheer muddy mess they left. There was even mud on the TV console.

    Bottom line is that I didn't charge them for any of it. I did the actual cleanup as I was dropping off my son at WSU (90 miles south of our house) so I just did the cleaning and let it go. I hemhawed around about leaving them a bad review, but I just couldn't let it go.

    So, eat it and leave them a bad review. Done and done.

  • Investor · Pueblo West, CO · Member since 2014 · 310 posts · 213 votes
    3y

    If you are going to charge for an extra fee, you need proof. 

    I have a long term rental that had some sewer problems. I had the septic tank pumped twice and the sewer line snaked. When the sewer line was snaked the second time I had the plumber take video. There were non approved items in the sewer line and I had video. I paid for the first pump and the plumber to take video. I charged the tenants for the 2nd pump of the septic tank ($350). 

    The dad who is a co-signer challenged me on the charge and said that there is a no way that I can prove it was his kids fault for a second septic pump. I replied with "I have video of the sewer line of non-approved items. The septic needed to be pumped to remove the non-approved items. It clearly states in the lease that this is a lease violation. Not only can I charge for this, but this is also grounds for eviction." The dad abruptly stopped emailing me.   

  • Rental Property Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2017 · 131 posts · 101 votes
    3y

    Thanks for all the input everyone. 

    We did end up letting it go. This was the first guest we've ever charged for anything. 

    The reason we have the bag fee, and it is the only set fee we have, is to prevent guests from leaving our cleaners with all their trash to haul. We have in our listing and house rules that guests are responsible for trash hauling. If it's just one bag and all other check-out instructions were followed, our cleaner doesn't worry about the fee. 

  • Lender · Austin, TX · Member since 2022 · 223 posts · 244 votes
    3y

    Not worth your stress. Learning lesson and move on - your time is too valuable to waste on stink guests. They wont be your last either, so find out how to hammer down your verbiage in the listing so that disputes like this do not arise again, and there are clear and definable consequences and rules.

  • Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew Simms:

    Thanks for all the input everyone. 

    We did end up letting it go. This was the first guest we've ever charged for anything. 

    The reason we have the bag fee, and it is the only set fee we have, is to prevent guests from leaving our cleaners with all their trash to haul. We have in our listing and house rules that guests are responsible for trash hauling. If it's just one bag and all other check-out instructions were followed, our cleaner doesn't worry about the fee. 

    How much a night do you charge for this place and what region are you in?
     

  • Rental Property Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2017 · 131 posts · 101 votes
    3y

    @John Carbone western North Carolina - our nightly rate ranges from $150 (low season) to about $250 (peak/holidays). I'd say average is in the $185-$200 per night range. 

  • Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew Simms:

    @John Carbone western North Carolina - our nightly rate ranges from $150 (low season) to about $250 (peak/holidays). I'd say average is in the $185-$200 per night range. 

    I’m not sure if that’s expected there to have guests have to dispose of their own trash. I know in tennessee side of the smokies the cleaners will take care of that. I do think charging for trash is asking for stuff like this. I get it you have it in your rules, but the problem is I’ve seen a lot of guests don’t bother to look at them. I’d find a way to get this incorporated in the rate or added cleaning fee. Extra trash is expected over the holidays, at my 4 bed someone left 12 bags of trash. 
  • Lender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2020 · 463 posts · 507 votes
    3y

    Like others have said, this is a business, these are good examples of the costs of doing business, and surely not worth nickling and diming about. The big picture, meaning great reviews, is what matters most, and is what pays tomorrow's bills.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mitch Davidson:

    Like others have said, this is a business, these are good examples of the costs of doing business, and surely not worth nickling and diming about. The big picture, meaning great reviews, is what matters most, and is what pays tomorrow's bills.


     Yep. This is why I would drop the trash fee. It's petty.

  • Katie MillerPro Member
    General Manager, Publishing at BiggerPockets · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 459 posts · 642 votes
    3y

    I don't deal with starter packs of anything... honestly I'm surprised you're getting good reviews if you don't provide full necessities! 

    If I'm renting out the whole house to someone, I don't think guests should need to purchase basic housing products. We simply slightly increase our cleaning costs above what we pay the cleaner to cover product purchases so it doesn't cost us anything in the end.

  • Rental Property Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2017 · 131 posts · 101 votes
    3y

    @John Carbone we are in Franklin and all the cleaners we interviewed (were all highly recommended) operate this way. We would prefer that the cleaner took care of that, but we do disclose it. We've had probably 2-3 guests out of roughly 80 mention it, but our VRBO reviews are all 5* and I think only 2 of our Airbnb were 4*.

    @Katie Miller do you just leave a roll of trash bags for the guests to use as they need? No limit whatsoever? Same with other supplies (toilet paper, paper towels, etc.)?

  • Katie MillerPro Member
    General Manager, Publishing at BiggerPockets · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 459 posts · 642 votes
    3y

    @Andrew Simms - We do! For a whole house rental we leave a box of trash bags under the sink, a backup paper towel roll, 3-4 rolls of TP per bathroom, full jugs of shampoo/conditioner, and basic cleaning supplies. 

    Of course it depends on your location and the nightly rate, but we haven't had an issue with theft at all and we attract quality guests (families, mostly). I'm sure we'd be approaching this differently if our houses weren't higher nightly prices! 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    @Andrew Simms I also leave each guest with a box of trash bags, several rolls of paper towels and toilet paper. It just doesn't make sense to be cheap about this. I've never had any of this stuff stolen....

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