Smoky mountains dry well
Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
Smoky mountains dry well
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3yIf the Sellers and their agent have two brain cells to rub together, they would have researched the ability to add a well before listing the property that low. Either they are really dumb, a new well is not an option or too expensive, or they are looking to generate a bunch of excitement that will drive the sales price up through multiple offers.
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- Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 751 posts · 504 votes3ySomething that is a real life saver down the road, is to have the well company dig deeper than they need to. For example, if the aquifer is located from 500' - 800' deep, drill to at least 650' if not 700' deep. It costs more, but you'll have water for many, many years, as the water level slowly decreases. In Cottonwood, AZ, I am seeing some home owners selling their homes, and when wells are being tested and investigated, finding that many of them saved money upfront by drilling near the top of the aquifer. It's costing them now, as they need a new well, dug deeper so they have water for the next 100-200 years.
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Yea I think you just have to pray for the best if you get a well that ends up that way.Quote from @JD Martin:
A 500 ft well with 6" casing will have somewhere around 500-600 gallons of storage, depending on the local water table and how fast it can replenish. So depending on how fast you use water it can be plenty even at 1 GPM, which would theoretically be 1440 gallons per day. The problems end up when the recharge rate is severely dimished because of drought, or a lot of local development starts siphoning off the capacity. In places where the underlying ground is heavy bedrock or really heavy soils it might not be obvious right away that the recharge has been diminished.Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
200 gpm! That is insane. Never heard of having that much flow. The 1 gpm could work though although not what you want. The reality is at that depth with a 6 inch pipe you have a lot of water storage.
You are right about how finicky they can be. My neighbor gets like 32gpm at 200 fr and I get 2.5 at 515ft at my home. They told me not great but you have the storage at that depth. I didn’t know whether or not to believe them or not but I have had that well for over 20 years now with no problems running out of water. Fortunately. It’s still always a gamble though.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes3y
Quote from @Chad McMahan:
Something that is a real life saver down the road, is to have the well company dig deeper than they need to. For example, if the aquifer is located from 500' - 800' deep, drill to at least 650' if not 700' deep. It costs more, but you'll have water for many, many years, as the water level slowly decreases. In Cottonwood, AZ, I am seeing some home owners selling their homes, and when wells are being tested and investigated, finding that many of them saved money upfront by drilling near the top of the aquifer. It's costing them now, as they need a new well, dug deeper so they have water for the next 100-200 years.Quote from @Ken Boone:
Yea I think you just have to pray for the best if you get a well that ends up that way.Quote from @JD Martin:
A 500 ft well with 6" casing will have somewhere around 500-600 gallons of storage, depending on the local water table and how fast it can replenish. So depending on how fast you use water it can be plenty even at 1 GPM, which would theoretically be 1440 gallons per day. The problems end up when the recharge rate is severely dimished because of drought, or a lot of local development starts siphoning off the capacity. In places where the underlying ground is heavy bedrock or really heavy soils it might not be obvious right away that the recharge has been diminished.Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
200 gpm! That is insane. Never heard of having that much flow. The 1 gpm could work though although not what you want. The reality is at that depth with a 6 inch pipe you have a lot of water storage.
You are right about how finicky they can be. My neighbor gets like 32gpm at 200 fr and I get 2.5 at 515ft at my home. They told me not great but you have the storage at that depth. I didn’t know whether or not to believe them or not but I have had that well for over 20 years now with no problems running out of water. Fortunately. It’s still always a gamble though.
There aren't any real aquifers here. All you are looking for are decent rock seams crossing your drill path. There's no reasonable benefit to drill any deeper than necessary here, especially given the cost per foot of casing and drilling. I haven't been involved in a drill in a while - over 10 years now - and then drilling was $13/foot not including casing. I would fully expect drilling with casing to be $30-40 per foot these days around here, meaning every extra hundred feet costs $3-4k and unless you happen to tap a major seam gains you about 100+/- gallons of storage.
Well drilling is very region specific. Different geology calls for different approaches. What you mention may or may not make sense depending on where you are and the total depth of the aquifer. You are correct in that shallower wells are a way of saving in drilling costs and may be short sighted. Good well drillers usually guide you right, and I always tell people use companies that have years of experience where you are. Out here, 1500 ft dry holes are very common. Spending $25k on a hole full of dust is pretty hard to swallow, no pun intended.
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