Smoky mountains dry well
Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
Smoky mountains dry well
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3yIf the Sellers and their agent have two brain cells to rub together, they would have researched the ability to add a well before listing the property that low. Either they are really dumb, a new well is not an option or too expensive, or they are looking to generate a bunch of excitement that will drive the sales price up through multiple offers.
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27 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 17 votes3y
That's odd... my STR in the smokies had a similar thing happen with the well (it went dry because they didn't get a lot of rain last year) and I had a water company come and fill it up (can't remember the exact price, but maybe $1,000?).
- Lender · New York, NY · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
How easy of a fix is this? Seems like a steal....
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
Or their agent is smart and realizes this will make for a difficult sale. So they priced low enough to generate real interest and get a 'best offer' out of a buyer vs. trying to guess what the correct price is for a discount based on this.
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Looks pretty great actually. It is a risk but I would want to know the deets on the well. How deep is it? What was it flowing historically?
Any good well guy in that area could tell you if he could find water on that or near that lot.
It does say in the ad that the new owner would have to dig a new well, so it is possible...I guess...
Devils advocate - drilling a new well isn't that expensive so why didn't the owners just do that? Are they expecting a bidding war that might bring up the sale price to where it might be with a working water system?
- Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes3yI kind of thought that maybe they already had the lot checked for a new well and it doesn’t look promising, so throw it up to get someone to buy it. This kind of stuff happens all the time here with vacant lots that can’t be built on.
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Looks pretty great actually. It is a risk but I would want to know the deets on the well. How deep is it? What was it flowing historically?
Any good well guy in that area could tell you if he could find water on that or near that lot.
It does say in the ad that the new owner would have to dig a new well, so it is possible...I guess...
Devils advocate - drilling a new well isn't that expensive so why didn't the owners just do that? Are they expecting a bidding war that might bring up the sale price to where it might be with a working water system?
- Investor · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 754 votes3y
I would get in contact with someone who deals with wells and see what the solution is
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Looks pretty great actually. It is a risk but I would want to know the deets on the well. How deep is it? What was it flowing historically?
Any good well guy in that area could tell you if he could find water on that or near that lot.
It does say in the ad that the new owner would have to dig a new well, so it is possible...I guess...
Devils advocate - drilling a new well isn't that expensive so why didn't the owners just do that? Are they expecting a bidding war that might bring up the sale price to where it might be with a working water system?
The well drillers in that market started doubling their prices about 2 years ago. Well drilling there is now around a minimum of 30k for a 500 ft well. Depending on the location some have to go 1000 ft and they will charge you by the foot. It can get real expensive real fast.
it is also a shared well for a reason. Either it was already expensive to build so they wanted to share the cost or historically they knew they had hard time hitting a vein there.It could be resolvable with another well. It’s just a gamble.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
If the Sellers and their agent have two brain cells to rub together, they would have researched the ability to add a well before listing the property that low. Either they are really dumb, a new well is not an option or too expensive, or they are looking to generate a bunch of excitement that will drive the sales price up through multiple offers.
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So I showed my wife this and she pointed out the fact that it was just listed and they want all offers in today. Sounds like they don’t want people to see what this cabin needs as far as repair. The listing indicates work needs to be done which sounds like more than just a well and they don’t want anyone to have a chance to inspect it ahead of time to really know what is needed. When things sound too good to be true, they usually are.
- Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes3y
Yeah I think their multiple offers is going to try to get people to drop inspections and instant cash close.
Logically if you knew a well could be done you would do it and sell it for 2x the cost. This seems insanely sketchy.
To that point though, if there are issues getting a well or when someone’s well runs dry, do you just have a larger glamp tent? Seems there is a lot of risk having places on a well.
- Real Estate Agent · Smoky Mountains, TN · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 984 votes3y
I have a cabin with well issues now. It is not an easy fix. The various companies are months and months out. My number is finally coming up and they’ll be addressing it soon. I’ve been having to truck water in, which is expensive. Also analyzed if holding tanks are an option but they are also expensive and not much flat spots to put it unless we disrupt the beauty of the fire pit. I’d rather buy turnkey with no issues thanks!
- Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes3y
It says multiple offers. Got cash and want a fixer upper? Get your bid in today.
Could be an estate, could be someone who can’t afford to fix it, someone who knows how much it costs to fix, or was given a very open estimate of cost.
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
- Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes3y
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3yNo I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
- Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes3yAnd what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?
Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
- Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes3yHi Michael.
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
I've been researching water in Sedona and Arizona for the last 10 years. What's hit or miss about water in Sedona? We have a massive aquifer supply of some of the cleanest water you can find anywhere. More water than we can consume in well over 500 years from just the Supai aquifer. Under the Supai, we have the Red Wall which houses significantly more than the Supai. Greater Sedona gets water from water companies pulling from the Supai, and/or recycled water from Sedona's A+ grade water treatment plant, or a small number of private individual or shared wells. Sedona is the oasis in the desert :)
As water becomes more of a desperate issue in the SW, Sedona will likely spike further in value, due to it's abundant supply.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes3y
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
200 gpm! That is insane. Never heard of having that much flow. The 1 gpm could work though although not what you want. The reality is at that depth with a 6 inch pipe you have a lot of water storage.
You are right about how finicky they can be. My neighbor gets like 32gpm at 200 fr and I get 2.5 at 515ft at my home. They told me not great but you have the storage at that depth. I didn’t know whether or not to believe them or not but I have had that well for over 20 years now with no problems running out of water. Fortunately. It’s still always a gamble though.
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
IIRC the drilling to see what's there is relatively cheap, it's the actual well building that is expensive. If you can set the contract up in a way where you cover the cost to drill ie "test" before you buy and proceed with the contract if a certain GPM by a specific depth threshold is met, then that could work I guess?
I could see how with mountianous and rocky properties like that the depth could vary wildly.
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for the info @Chad McMahan, I spent a lot of time chatting with @Martin D. about the water situation and he is up on it for sure.
There is so much to unpack here, especially with @JD Martins comments.
Here in WA state, drilling hits water at 30 feet. My folks well hit water at 60 and is was just over 200gpm (no joke). They were able to allow a neighboring build to tie in there was so much water.
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votesI really don't know. With what JD said, this could be something that just happens.
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I would have to guess that the local govt has all the geo facts regarding the water supply and that they should have a pretty good idea. - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes3yA 500 ft well with 6" casing will have somewhere around 500-600 gallons of storage, depending on the local water table and how fast it can replenish. So depending on how fast you use water it can be plenty even at 1 GPM, which would theoretically be 1440 gallons per day. The problems end up when the recharge rate is severely dimished because of drought, or a lot of local development starts siphoning off the capacity. In places where the underlying ground is heavy bedrock or really heavy soils it might not be obvious right away that the recharge has been diminished.
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
200 gpm! That is insane. Never heard of having that much flow. The 1 gpm could work though although not what you want. The reality is at that depth with a 6 inch pipe you have a lot of water storage.
You are right about how finicky they can be. My neighbor gets like 32gpm at 200 fr and I get 2.5 at 515ft at my home. They told me not great but you have the storage at that depth. I didn’t know whether or not to believe them or not but I have had that well for over 20 years now with no problems running out of water. Fortunately. It’s still always a gamble though.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3yYea I think you just have to pray for the best if you get a well that ends up that way.
Quote from @JD Martin:
A 500 ft well with 6" casing will have somewhere around 500-600 gallons of storage, depending on the local water table and how fast it can replenish. So depending on how fast you use water it can be plenty even at 1 GPM, which would theoretically be 1440 gallons per day. The problems end up when the recharge rate is severely dimished because of drought, or a lot of local development starts siphoning off the capacity. In places where the underlying ground is heavy bedrock or really heavy soils it might not be obvious right away that the recharge has been diminished.Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Ken Boone:
Quote from @John Carbone:
And what happens when the gamble doesn’t pay off?Quote from @Ken Boone:
No I think you gamble and drill another well or go deeper and pay the price.Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Michael Baum:
I would also begin to wonder if this is something systemic with the area. In the greater Sedona area, water can be hit or miss.
There are some areas outside of the Sedona area that look like great opportunities until you find out that their aquifer is drying up and water will no longer be available.
That’s what I was kind of getting at here. I’m hearing this more and more around here. How do you protect yourself even on a “turn key”, do you just lose half of your investment when the water runs out and can’t be brought back?
I think you will eventually hit water just may have to pay more and go deeper in that area. I don’t think the gamble is whether or not you will hit water. The gamble is in how deep you have to go and how much is that gonna cost. But I would definitely be talking with the well drillers as they have a pretty good idea about most areas they drill in where the water is and the typical depths they have to go. My comments are only concerning the southeast don’t know anything about out west.
I spent many years in the water industry here. Wells are notoriously tricky here in the mountains; because everything is solid bedrock you're never really drilling into underground aquifers/lakes - you're trying to hit seams where enough cross to keep your casing full of water. This is not easy to do at all and a lot of drillers just rely on experience and local knowledge about the likelihood of hitting a good seam. About 10 years ago we drilled two wells at a treatment plant about 75 yards apart. The first one produced over 200 GPM at 600 feet. The second one produced less than a gallon a minute at 1300 feet - essentially a dry hole. Add to that the fact that mountain geology is always changing - as the earth shifts the rock cracks in different ways, and wells can dry up in an instant as water finds a different seam with the new cracks.
Best thing they can try to do first is fracture the existing well - sometimes you can open the seams up wider and that solves your problem. If not, unless you have a decent sized property, drilling a new one is probably a waste of time and this place will have to truck in water or create a large cistern system.
200 gpm! That is insane. Never heard of having that much flow. The 1 gpm could work though although not what you want. The reality is at that depth with a 6 inch pipe you have a lot of water storage.
You are right about how finicky they can be. My neighbor gets like 32gpm at 200 fr and I get 2.5 at 515ft at my home. They told me not great but you have the storage at that depth. I didn’t know whether or not to believe them or not but I have had that well for over 20 years now with no problems running out of water. Fortunately. It’s still always a gamble though.
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