Subdivision bylaws-- need your thoughts on this language

Subdivision bylaws-- need your thoughts on this language

Rental Property Investor · AL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 10 votes

Hello!  

What are my fellow BP member thoughts on this language? Does it specifically prohibit short term rentals? I'm not seeing that it does and I am living in an ideal situation to move out and STR. This is not an HOA, it is just a very old set of bylaws on a subdivision.

I don't put a lot of stock in attorneys, and I have worked in lawful counsel capacities for myself as well as for attorneys, so please don't recommend one 😄 

The way I'm reading it-- as long as it's the entire property being rented, which it is, and it's not for more than one family, which it isn't, then it's pretty vague if it wanted to prohibit STRs.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

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Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y

"No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

Can't get much more clear than that.

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  • CO · Member since 2022 · 588 posts · 426 votes
    3y

    The one issue I would say could be #1.

    People could view and STR as a business or commercial use and not residential.

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    "No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

    Can't get much more clear than that.

  • Rental Property Investor · AL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    "No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

    Can't get much more clear than that.

     Interesting.  That's the part where I thought it was tricky because it seems to be underlining that the WHOLE HOUSE be rented (which it previously stated) as home rentals are allowed.  The transient accommodation I thought was connected to the renting rooms prohibition...as boarding house or other transient accommodation.  And since we will not be renting rooms, I feel there may be a leg to stand on!  

  • Rental Property Investor · AL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    3y

    As far as business use, does STR qualify as more of a business use than an LTR? Because it remits local taxes etc, I guess it is more hotelier than landlord.

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    "No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

    Can't get much more clear than that.

     Interesting.  That's the part where I thought it was tricky because it seems to be underlining that the WHOLE HOUSE be rented (which it previously stated) as home rentals are allowed.  The transient accommodation I thought was connected to the renting rooms prohibition...as boarding house or other transient accommodation.  And since we will not be renting rooms, I feel there may be a leg to stand on!  

     Haha!  I’m glad you aren’t next door to me - I’d test your leg.  Your neighbors aren’t going to like you very much.

    Interesting that some people spend all their time begging for problems.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y

    If LTR's are allowed and you rent the whole house (not part) then STR's by default should also be allowed.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    If LTR's are allowed and you rent the whole house (not part) then STR's by default should also be allowed.


  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Transient accommodation COULD be defined locally as anything under 30 day stay. Locally we now have a transient occupancy tax that is paid for less than a monthly stay, so that would be a data point to say that a STR is transient occupancy. But zoning or 'public' code changes are typically held in a different standing than private CC&Rs. You could determine that reference to 'transient' could be held in light of what the text defines there, which is boarding and rooming houses, so STR is not a transient use.

    So since these are private CC&Rs and not public zoning or use codes, the evaluation of how they apply can be different since a public definition doesn't necessarily apply in the private use. There may be an argument that if it wasn't contemplated at the time the CC&Rs were drafted then it wasn't intended to be included. I specifically recall reading about a court case for a lake property where that was the determination, and therefor STR was allowed per the judges ruling. 

    Too much of this is rooted in what your State civil codes say related to CC&Rs and as well as case law in the State. I could honestly see this go either way depending on a lot more than what is written in this one little section. 

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y

    This makes reference to court cases in SC and Kansas.

    Sample letter that you can tailor for your use:

    March 9, 2022

    Dear XXXXX Village Board:

    We are writing in response to your letter dated March 3, in which you alleged that the use of our second home as a part-time short-term rental violates Article VIII, Section 2(f) of the Covenants.

    If our short-term tenants have caused any problems, we would ask that you send us detailed information as to the nature of the problems so we can take action to prevent such incidents in the future. We want to be good neighbors and work with you in good faith to ensure our home is not disruptive to the community. We do have a high-end local property management company that is available 24/7 in case of emergency. If the Board ever has an immediate concern, you can phone Renee and her team at (864) XXXXXXX.

    The Board, however, is exceeding its authority in writing, “You can’t rent out your house on a short term basis.” We conducted due diligence before we purchased our property, and Glastonbury Village’s Covenants simply do not ban short-term rentals. Article VIII, Section 2(f) prohibits “industry, business, trade, occupation, or profession of any kind” excepting certain actions by the builder while new homes were being sold, and home offices. However, by the Covenants’ numerous references to “tenants” (see Article II, Section 2 for one example) the Covenants assume that properties will be rented out. There is no legal distinction that makes a short-term rental any more of a “business” than a long-term rental. In both cases, a homeowner rents their house, often using a management company, and collects rent that is reported to the IRS as rental income. The Covenants do not make any such distinction between long-term and short-term rentals.

    Most importantly, on August 5, 2016, the South Carolina Attorney General (SCAG) issued an opinion titled “Pertaining to covenants and bylaws of homeowners associations.” It referenced the Kansas Court of Appeals decision in Kiekel v. Four Colonies Homes ***’n, which dealt specifically with the question of whether an HOA could ban short-term rentals if such a restriction was not present in the Covenants. The facts of the case are very similar to our situation—the Declaration of Covenants assumed by its use of the word "tenants" that some homeowners would rent their property.

    In Kiekel, the court found that the HOA had no right to ban short-term rentals, because “[t]he bylaw amendment contained extensive property use restrictions concerning the rental of property

    . . . which only could be accomplished through an amendment to the Declaration [of

    Covenants].”

    The SCAG notes that the "court held that the HOA could not ‘circumvent the intent of the Declaration, the enabling document, by subsequently amending the Bylaws.' … Kiekel, therefore, stands for the rule that where the bylaws of an HOA purport to restrict the use of property further than contemplated in the covenants, there is a conflict and the covenants will control.”

    The opinion of the SCAG went on to declare that “the general relationship between covenants and bylaws described in Kiekel is consistent with South Carolina law.” He cites South Carolina Jurisprudence to note that “while homeowners' associations typically have the power to regulate the use of common areas, their regulations cannot prohibit a usage contrary to any restrictions creating easements or rights of use of property in owners.”

    In short, if you were to press this issue and take us to court, all federal and state precedent overwhelmingly indicates the court would find in our favor, and this enforcement action would prove an expensive waste of association money.

    All that to say, we politely request that you drop this unlawful enforcement action. If you choose to pursue this matter, we would like to request a formal hearing, either virtually, or in-person with a designated representative attending on our behalf.

    Finally, we are happy to work with you to make sure the house is not disruptive to the neighborhood. However, we are unable to convert it to a long-term rental, because we stay there whenever we come to XXXXX to visit our son and daughter-in-law, and we are considering moving in full-time within the year. Our property manager already has a number of systems in place to prevent her properties from becoming party houses, and she keeps our home in beautiful condition in a way that adds value to the surrounding community, but we are happy to take further action if need be.

    Sincerely,

    ---REDACTED---

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    Hey @Marie M., I know you are looking for a way to get around the bylaws, but number 3 is pretty clear.

    No part,, which would mean a single bedroom or the whole house can be used for transient stays. That is the very definition of a short term rental. People staying for less than 30 days then moving on. The wording covers any way you could possibly STR the property.

  • Rental Property Investor · AL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    3y

    Yeah, to me I understood it to mean no partial parts of a home could be used for transient accommodations, meaning the whole house could be used.  But STRs didn't exist when they made this, other than boarding houses.  So maybe it will be fine. I want to do it because I don't think it's the best LTR.  Thanks for all the back up! Great resources, which I am logging now Thanks @John Underwood 

    STRs are the best kept properties anywhere, much better kept than LTRs

    And to the property manager who said I'm looking for problems, I'm just looking for opportunities! I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart. 

  • Travis TimmonsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    The answer is no. The answer is always no when it comes to HOA, bylaws, etc. Don't swim upstream…either deal with it as is or sell it and buy a proper short term rental.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 751 posts · 504 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Hello!  

    What are my fellow BP member thoughts on this language? Does it specifically prohibit short term rentals? I'm not seeing that it does and I am living in an ideal situation to move out and STR. This is not an HOA, it is just a very old set of bylaws on a subdivision.

    I don't put a lot of stock in attorneys, and I have worked in lawful counsel capacities for myself as well as for attorneys, so please don't recommend one 😄 

    The way I'm reading it-- as long as it's the entire property being rented, which it is, and it's not for more than one family, which it isn't, then it's pretty vague if it wanted to prohibit STRs.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

    Hi Marie.
    It's a well crafted letter... IF you're right. I'd highly recommend you have a real estate attorney consult, based on the boarding house and transient accommodation verbiage. 
  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Hello!  

    What are my fellow BP member thoughts on this language? Does it specifically prohibit short term rentals? I'm not seeing that it does and I am living in an ideal situation to move out and STR. This is not an HOA, it is just a very old set of bylaws on a subdivision.

    I don't put a lot of stock in attorneys, and I have worked in lawful counsel capacities for myself as well as for attorneys, so please don't recommend one 😄 

    The way I'm reading it-- as long as it's the entire property being rented, which it is, and it's not for more than one family, which it isn't, then it's pretty vague if it wanted to prohibit STRs.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

    Best Comment All Day: 

    "I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart."

    I respectfully disagree with the previous commenters. I see the intent as to not have a group home, day care or boarding house, all of which assume an ongoing business of unrelated individuals coming and going ad nauseum. That is not what an STR to a related group is.

    I agree with your first take. A "part" is not the whole. So, it seems they don't want people renting less than the whole house (not "part" like a garage, a bedroom, an attic, out building, ADU, etc) Also, they would have included "for not less that 30 days" if they wanted to prohibit short term rentals. I don't think renting by the room would be tolerated, but renting the entire house seems to be what they intended to allow, with no specific limit on the amount of time.

  • Rental Property Investor · AL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Hello!  

    What are my fellow BP member thoughts on this language? Does it specifically prohibit short term rentals? I'm not seeing that it does and I am living in an ideal situation to move out and STR. This is not an HOA, it is just a very old set of bylaws on a subdivision.

    I don't put a lot of stock in attorneys, and I have worked in lawful counsel capacities for myself as well as for attorneys, so please don't recommend one 😄 

    The way I'm reading it-- as long as it's the entire property being rented, which it is, and it's not for more than one family, which it isn't, then it's pretty vague if it wanted to prohibit STRs.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

    Best Comment All Day: 

    "I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart."

    I respectfully disagree with the previous commenters. I see the intent as to not have a group home, day care or boarding house, all of which assume an ongoing business of unrelated individuals coming and going ad nauseum. That is not what an STR to a related group is.

    I agree with your first take. A "part" is not the whole. So, it seems they don't want people renting less than the whole house (not "part" like a garage, a bedroom, an attic, out building, ADU, etc) Also, they would have included "for not less that 30 days" if they wanted to prohibit short term rentals. I don't think renting by the room would be tolerated, but renting the entire house seems to be what they intended to allow, with no specific limit on the amount of time.


     Thank you Mike!  Appreciate the comments very much.  Following you

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    I guess you are going to do it so be prepared for fines and the like. 

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Marie M.

    A short term rental could be considered transient housing. Based on what I read I would say no a STR is not allowed

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    "No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

    Can't get much more clear than that.

     Interesting.  That's the part where I thought it was tricky because it seems to be underlining that the WHOLE HOUSE be rented (which it previously stated) as home rentals are allowed.  The transient accommodation I thought was connected to the renting rooms prohibition...as boarding house or other transient accommodation.  And since we will not be renting rooms, I feel there may be a leg to stand on!  

    The only leg you’d be standing on is a short one. 
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Yeah, to me I understood it to mean no partial parts of a home could be used for transient accommodations, meaning the whole house could be used.  But STRs didn't exist when they made this, other than boarding houses.  So maybe it will be fine. I want to do it because I don't think it's the best LTR.  Thanks for all the back up! Great resources, which I am logging now Thanks @John Underwood 

    STRs are the best kept properties anywhere, much better kept than LTRs

    And to the property manager who said I'm looking for problems, I'm just looking for opportunities! I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart. 

    You are changing the language of the provision to suit your intent.  It doesn't say "No partial parts of the home shall be used for renting rooms...".  It says "No part of the home."  It means what it says.  "Oh judge, I didn't murder that guy.  I was just helping him settle in for a dirt nap."

    There isn't a question. But even if there was, a person of integrity would simply call the HOA in advance to get clarification. Sneaking around and scheming isn't part of my playbook, but to each his own. Disgusting.

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Yeah, to me I understood it to mean no partial parts of a home could be used for transient accommodations, meaning the whole house could be used.  But STRs didn't exist when they made this, other than boarding houses.  So maybe it will be fine. I want to do it because I don't think it's the best LTR.  Thanks for all the back up! Great resources, which I am logging now Thanks @John Underwood 

    STRs are the best kept properties anywhere, much better kept than LTRs

    And to the property manager who said I'm looking for problems, I'm just looking for opportunities! I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart. 

    You are changing the language of the provision to suit your intent.  It doesn't say "No partial parts of the home shall be used for renting rooms...".  It says "No part of the home."  It means what it says.  "Oh judge, I didn't murder that guy.  I was just helping him settle in for a dirt nap."

    There isn't a question. But even if there was, a person of integrity would simply call the HOA in advance to get clarification. Sneaking around and schemingNotice isn't part of my playbook, but to each his own. Disgusting.

    "3. No building situated on any lot may be rented or leased separate from the rental or lease of the entire property, and no part of any building shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."

    From the Notice, it's they allow rentals per se so,

    It's instructive to read 

    "HOA RENTAL RESTRICTIONS: WHAT ARE THESE AND CAN AN HOA RESTRICT RENTALS?"

    "ARE HOA RENTAL RESTRICTIONS LEGAL AND ENFORCEABLE?"


    https://www.hoamanagement.com/...



  • Real Estate Agent · Emerald Coast, FL · Member since 2016 · 820 posts · 486 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Collin Hays:
    Quote from @Marie M.:
    Quote from @Collin Hays:

    "No part...shall be used for the purpose of renting rooms as a boarding house or other transient accommodation."  

    Can't get much more clear than that.

     Interesting.  That's the part where I thought it was tricky because it seems to be underlining that the WHOLE HOUSE be rented (which it previously stated) as home rentals are allowed.  The transient accommodation I thought was connected to the renting rooms prohibition...as boarding house or other transient accommodation.  And since we will not be renting rooms, I feel there may be a leg to stand on!  

     Haha!  I’m glad you aren’t next door to me - I’d test your leg.  Your neighbors aren’t going to like you very much.

    Interesting that some people spend all their time begging for problems.


    Why?  You're a property manager, and you're saying STRs cause problems in neighborhoods?  

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 543 posts · 474 votes
    3y

    @John Underwood More and more jurisdictions are changing the proper tax status of STRs from residential to commercial. When that happens I think you would have a hard time challenging the assertion that an STR is simply a residence, same as a LTR.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mark S.:

    @John Underwood More and more jurisdictions are changing the proper tax status of STRs from residential to commercial. When that happens I think you would have a hard time challenging the assertion that an STR is simply a residence, same as a LTR.

    That is likely true. That just happened in Pigeon Forge.

    Unless someone interviens at the state level with a STR law as they are working on in SC.
  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Yeah, to me I understood it to mean no partial parts of a home could be used for transient accommodations, meaning the whole house could be used.  But STRs didn't exist when they made this, other than boarding houses.  So maybe it will be fine. I want to do it because I don't think it's the best LTR.  Thanks for all the back up! Great resources, which I am logging now Thanks @John Underwood 

    STRs are the best kept properties anywhere, much better kept than LTRs

    And to the property manager who said I'm looking for problems, I'm just looking for opportunities! I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart. 

    Marie, your incorrect on all assumptions and points here. 

    Air BnB is new, NOT short term rentals. Short Term Rentals have been around for MANY decades, many many. STR is a modern term for Transient Tenancy.

    The terms explicitly state NO transient tenancy. In addition a judge could get annoyed with semantics and opinions argument, and add in that it's a commercial use as Short Term Rentals are classified as Hospitality, and hospitality is classified as commercial use of real estate. This is how STR's are getting banned in some areas via violations of zoning restrictions.

    It's very clear, no you can NOT use property for Transient tenancy, and STR IS transient tenancy. 

    Notice I do not say I "think" or I "feel", I state this as fact, because it is factual. 

    As for crying private property rights; you entered that agreement willingly and now after the fact want it waived to suite your new desire. I am all about property rights but you have and had them, your seeking to change your agreement after the fact to suite the whims of the moment. That's not a property right issue it's a breach of contract issue. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Marie M.:

    Hello!  

    What are my fellow BP member thoughts on this language? Does it specifically prohibit short term rentals? I'm not seeing that it does and I am living in an ideal situation to move out and STR. This is not an HOA, it is just a very old set of bylaws on a subdivision.

    I don't put a lot of stock in attorneys, and I have worked in lawful counsel capacities for myself as well as for attorneys, so please don't recommend one 😄 

    The way I'm reading it-- as long as it's the entire property being rented, which it is, and it's not for more than one family, which it isn't, then it's pretty vague if it wanted to prohibit STRs.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

    Best Comment All Day: 

    "I also think it's important to explore the freedom of private property rights, which are near and dear to my heart."

    I respectfully disagree with the previous commenters. I see the intent as to not have a group home, day care or boarding house, all of which assume an ongoing business of unrelated individuals coming and going ad nauseum. That is not what an STR to a related group is.

    I agree with your first take. A "part" is not the whole. So, it seems they don't want people renting less than the whole house (not "part" like a garage, a bedroom, an attic, out building, ADU, etc) Also, they would have included "for not less that 30 days" if they wanted to prohibit short term rentals. I don't think renting by the room would be tolerated, but renting the entire house seems to be what they intended to allow, with no specific limit on the amount of time.


    I think we have to keep in mind many CCRs were written long ago before STR were even a thing. 
    Just like language in CCR's that preclude selling to certain ethnic groups or religious groups. those are still on title but are ignored and cant be enforced..really depends if there is an active HOA or these are just CCR's  active HOA you could have a fight.. just CCR's it would take a neighbor actually suing you.. and this is pretty rare since it cost money.  City County does not enforce CCRS as we know. As many CCRs are contrary to the current zoning.
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