Tenant lied about dog. How much to charge?

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Tenant lied about dog. How much to charge?

Tim V.
San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes

Hey Everyone, I've been successfully self-managing a full time STR in the in-law unit of my San Francisco home for a few years now. I have been able to avoid trouble tenants in the past through the normal mechanisms, but had my first real problem guest this week.

I'll save you the gory details, but essentially the tenant showed up with a dog, lied about taking it to a pet hotel, and kept it in the unit while they were inside. I believed them when they said they took it to a pet hotel and didn't realize that they kept the dog until I did my post checkout inspection and found a puddle of urine. Closer inspection of an outdoor security footage (from a disclosed camera) shows that they were hiding the dog in a jacket as they came and went. They only stayed for two nights.

How much would you charge for this? The reservation was through Airbnb, and Airbnb has been involved from the moment I realized that they have a dog, so given the evidence they should be on my side. There is no real damage to speak of just some additional cleaning time that I will be billed for.

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Julie McCoy
Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

I have it stated in my description that any guest bringing an animal will be charged $200.  And I have no compunction about doing it (though fortunately I haven't had to so far).

The dog peed on your floor, and left hair and dander that will require additional cleanup, if you want your place restored to its original condition.  The guest was brazenly dishonest.  I don't especially care if the cleaners charge you extra for it or not, the guest should be fined for breaking your rules.  (you should frame is as a fine, as well - not as an extra cleaning charge or repairs, as then AirBNB may request receipts to back up the amount.  You don't want to be limited to that, so focus on the fact that they broke your rules and thus they forfeit $X - which AirBNB probably won't allow to be more than whatever deposit you charge)

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    7y

    Id base this on how likely the situation could lend itself to a bad review. The review is probably more important than the money.

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  • Tim V.
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Id base this on how likely the situation could lend itself to a bad review. The review is probably more important than the money.

    Thanks for the input, @Russell Brazil. Generally I agree with you; with honest tenants or situations where I'm at fault I go above and beyond to make sure the guest is satisfied. In this situation the guests brazen dishonesty that really has me more riled up than usual so your point is well taken. 

    I have a solid enough history that a single one-star review won't ruin my superhost status or make much of a difference in the overall average, and I feel like a well written response to a potential bad review might be enough for potential future guests to ignore it. 

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  • Kevin Murphy
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Do you allow pets usually? We have a listed pet fee and are per friendly however occasionally encounter those who ‘forgot’ or neglected to tell us they were bringing their dog... in those cases we fall back on the listed pet fee rate. If the urine caused damage or required pro cleaning I would go with an adjustment request for that amount. 

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  • Tim V.
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    No, we have a pretty strict no pet policy. It's listed multiple places in the description and is in the disclosures the guest agrees to before confirming.

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  • Alvin Sylvain
    Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 466 posts · 471 votes
    7y

    I am unfamiliar with how Airbnb works. Did you get a deposit? Keep it. All of it.

    Personally, I don't care if you can actually clean the place for less than the deposit, so that "technically" you could refund the balance. I feel there needs to be some punitive damages for lying.

    Don't take this as legal advice, of course.

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  • Tim V.
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alvin Sylvain:

    I am unfamiliar with how Airbnb works. Did you get a deposit? Keep it. All of it.

    Personally, I don't care if you can actually clean the place for less than the deposit, so that "technically" you could refund the balance. I feel there needs to be some punitive damages for lying.

    Don't take this as legal advice, of course.

     I believe Airbnb allows you to set up a deposit, but in my experience it's very rarely used. As such, I don't have a deposit for this stay.

    I do feel justified in charging more than the few additional cleaning hours, but what does that look like? $100? $300? $500?

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  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I would not charge anything, and I would just let it go. 

    1Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    To add: was this a laminate floor or carpet? If laminate it took 30 seconds to clean. If carpet a pro might charge $50-75 is my guess. 

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  • Michael Greenberg
    Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
    7y

    Hi @Tim V., 

    I had a similar situation about 6 months ago and I charged the guest my cost to hire a carpet/upholstery cleaning company.  It didn't affect my review at all, but as you stated,I didn't care all that much either as one bad review wouldn't have affected my overall rating.  I explained to the guest that I do not allow pets of any kind and that is how I advertise my place so future guests can feel comfortable knowing this.  Airbnb was 100% on my side, though they didn't need to be involved.  

    Mike

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y

    So you said the pet did no damage. Your cleaning crew is going g to charge you more for cleaning up a puddle of urine that did no damage? I'd fire them and get a new cleaning crew.

    Since no damage was done I would just let it go.

    This is going to happen occasionally and it isn't worth a bad review.

    The most I would do is withhold a standard pet fee.

    1Reply
  • Matt K.
    Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    If they are going to lie to you about the dog in the first place... what do you think they will do when you either try to charge them for the dog they already lied about...

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    There is absolutely no point in having rules if you do not intend to enforce/punish when they are violated. Charge them a fee as a punishment not as compensation for damage. $200 range seems like a descent amount of punishment.

    If one bad review is not a issue then use it to your advantage to send a message to others.

    2Reply
  • Julie McCoy
    Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I have it stated in my description that any guest bringing an animal will be charged $200.  And I have no compunction about doing it (though fortunately I haven't had to so far).

    The dog peed on your floor, and left hair and dander that will require additional cleanup, if you want your place restored to its original condition.  The guest was brazenly dishonest.  I don't especially care if the cleaners charge you extra for it or not, the guest should be fined for breaking your rules.  (you should frame is as a fine, as well - not as an extra cleaning charge or repairs, as then AirBNB may request receipts to back up the amount.  You don't want to be limited to that, so focus on the fact that they broke your rules and thus they forfeit $X - which AirBNB probably won't allow to be more than whatever deposit you charge)

    3Reply
  • Tim Schroeder
    Rental Property Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 335 posts · 387 votes
    7y

    Get them to leave a review first. Once that's arrived, charge them the "pet fee" of at least $100 out of their deposit. If your rental agreement does not include a pet cleaning fee, add one so that next time you have it.

    1Reply
  • Tim Schroeder
    Rental Property Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 335 posts · 387 votes
    7y

    I would call it a "Pet cleaning fee". I don't think AirBNB will allow it if you call it a "fine". As far as receipts go, that shouldn't be too hard to obtain.

    0Reply
  • Tim V.
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    @Michael Greenberg - Thanks for sharing. It certainly seems like Airbnb has been and will continue to be on my side.

    @John Underwood - There was dog hair found in a few locations throughout the apartment and the cleaners spent a few extra hours cleaning at my request.

    @Matt K. - Seems the worst they can do is a 1-star review which I am prepared for

    @Thomas S. - I agree

    @Julie McCoy - Thanks the input, getting rid of all of the hair and dander was the important to me

    @Tim Schroeder- Good idea to get them to leave a review first. 

    Really appreciate all of the replies here. I have to say I'm surprised at how many people would not do anything in this situation, but it's been good perspective for me all the same. 

    As a frequent customer of Airbnb on the guest side, I would be pretty disappointed if I stayed at a "pet-free" listing and arrived to an apartment that had dog hair anywhere in the apartment. 

    I'm going to take a few more days to think about it, I've been in contact with Airbnb and the window to open a claim in the resolution center is quite long.

    1Reply
  • Matt K.
    Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Wouldn't the worst they could do is lie and do a charge back on the cc or get your acct suspended for a bit?

    Note I'm not saying don't do anything about it rather I doubt you'll get help from Airbnb... And more so if they lie and claim you are making it up.

    0Reply
  • Tim V.
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matt K.:

    Wouldn't the worst they could do is lie and do a charge back on the cc or get your acct suspended for a bit?

    Note I'm not saying don't do anything about it rather I doubt you'll get help from Airbnb... And more so if they lie and claim you are making it up.

    What would the charge back be for? Currently the only thing they've paid for is two nights of accommodation which they received. Any additional charges that I request have to go through the resolution center where Airbnb makes the final judgement. I only get additional money for a pet clean up if either the guest or Airbnb agrees with the charges.

    I have video evidence of them entering and leaving with a dog in tow, as well as pictures of urine on the floor and dog hair in the bathroom.  There isn't a lot of room for argument.

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  • Matt K.
    Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim V.:
    Originally posted by @Matt K.:

    Wouldn't the worst they could do is lie and do a charge back on the cc or get your acct suspended for a bit?

    Note I'm not saying don't do anything about it rather I doubt you'll get help from Airbnb... And more so if they lie and claim you are making it up.

    What would the charge back be for? Currently the only thing they've paid for is two nights of accommodation which they received. Any additional charges that I request have to go through the resolution center where Airbnb makes the final judgement. I only get additional money for a pet clean up if either the guest or Airbnb agrees with the charges.

    I have video evidence of them entering and leaving with a dog in tow, as well as pictures of urine on the floor and dog hair in the bathroom.  There isn't a lot of room for argument.

     Chargeback against Airbnb if additional charges went through. Unlikely but doubt this would be unheard of... 

    Isn't Airbnb notorious for telling home owners no when they put in cliams? What I imagine will happen is you open claim submit solid evidence and no one looks at it and you get boilerplate response. Escalate it they'll review and still no. Maybe they'll ask the guests and they will lie and case closed no more problem.

    But then again I don't have an Airbnb nor made a claim, so hopefully you get the money no problems.

    0Reply
  • Alvin Sylvain
    Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 466 posts · 471 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim V.:

    Really appreciate all of the replies here. I have to say I'm surprised at how many people would not do anything in this situation, but it's been good perspective for me all the same.

     Welcome to the World of Business. Sometimes it's more pragmatic to let it slide than fight for principle.

    0Reply
  • Teri Feeney Styers
    Real Estate Agent · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes
    7y

    @Tim V I would charge them for all of the reasons people above have listed. We traveled from Colorado to AZ and back for the Thanksgiving holiday. On our drive (in Moab, Utah) we saw a sign on a motel: "PET FRIENDLY! Except for bears - we won't make that mistake again!"

    1Reply
  • Mike V.
    Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
    7y
    @Tim Schroeder hit it dead on. Play nice, get the review, then mention after the fact your cleaners billed extra for the hair, you reviewed your tapes, and are withholding a portion as a resulted them violating your no pet clause and the extra cleaning required.
    0Reply
  • Nancy Bachety
    Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    7y

    Hummm. Take a still photo of the dog video or send the video itself to Airbnb if you didn't already do that, whether or not you pursue this. Next, send the puddle of urine. The demand hard evidence and you have it. Regardless if the floor is laminate, tile, carpet, you incurred an extra cleaning fee and they lied. Not doing anything about it allows these guests to expect other hosts to forget it too, setting a bad tone for all hosts. 

    Buy some time with your review if you want. I would determine your asking fee, tell airbnb, and let the resolution handle it. In a case like that, airbnb might take away your opportunity to review each other if you act now. 

    Guest might have no idea their pet even peed and might think they got away with a dog and give you a great review.

    Think twice about letting it go though. I would not be inclined to let it go.

    Tell us how it turns out please.

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  • John D.
    Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
    7y

    Trying to get a few $$ out of Airbnb will not be worth your time, and is unlikely to be successful.

    Near the end of the review period, leave them a simple review stating they brought a pet against your rules, and continued to house it in your unit after saying they had found another place for it to stay.

    1Reply
  • Kevin Lefeuvre
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
    7y

    @John D. Like John said. Airbnb will waste your time and won't support your claim. Been there done that. But make sure you post the review on their profile clearly and formally NOT recommend them to other hosts, and share the photo to airbnb in the private note so that it gets filed.

    We, the hosts, have the power, it's our properties. Airbnb is abusing us through the rating system. If we all become more truthful about the guests and disclose what they do, we get airbnb with their own trick: The reviews. So disclose publicly what the guest did but move on. 

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