Anyone Doing Long Distance Short Term Rental Successfully?
Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes
Anyone Doing Long Distance Short Term Rental Successfully?
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Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7yEverything @Jon Crosby said. It is absolutely possible to manage your rental yourself from a distance (mine are 200 and 2000 miles away from me, respectively) with minimal time investment. Generally speaking a PM is going to take the lion's share of your cash flow, so if you don't absolutely need them, the cost isn't worth it. 20-30% is a good estimate, but in my primary market 30-40% is the going rate - and the performance a property gets through a PM is not going to be as good as one that is self-managed!
Definitely find a target market first and then start crunching numbers. The majority of my properties are in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, TN and it's fantastic for high occupancy and cash flow. The area has been a mecca for vacation rentals for a long time, and the local economy and service professionals are completely entwined with the industry. I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the market or logistics of operating there, if you like. :)
52 Replies
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes7y
Totally agree. For most people, and many properties, I think the remote manage with a handyman and cleaning staff can be a fantasy.
I live a block from my current properties and I can be there in a moment's notice.
what do you do when tenants set up a meth lab? Or your handyman and cleaning company walk and it takes you weeks to find someone new while you have scads of guest scheduled ? Trashed the place and more guests in 6 hours? Code or zoning violations that are not simple? Neighbors were fed up with your just taking all the parking and want you to limit or stop doing short term rental? And 50 other possibilities?
yeah for some of these barebones cabins in the woods in a hot short term rental market with no Neighbors. But I have neighbors and all sides of small properties we're Hospital some tourism activities. They've lived here forever. I do some tiptoeing on eggshells.
Originally posted by @Rick Bassett:Some people (hosts) seem to manage everything remotely just fine but after doing this locally for several years I don't see how that's possible as crazy things tend to come up during guests visits that have to be dealt with quickly or they can have a serious impact on the critically needed 5-Star guest review.
The STR Hospitality business is 24/7/365. While I have good cleaning people, numerous handi-persons and licensed contractors, their availability is not 24/7/365 I have to pinch-hit on guest issues and repair problems when the support staff is unavailable.
We often find problems, broken, stained, damaged & missing items, during turnovers that have to be dealt with quickly. Think about the timing of this scenario (there are many): current guest checks out at 11 am and next guest is arriving in at 3 pm, the cleaning person who starts cleaning at 11 am discovers a broken kitchen faucet or a running toilet around 11:45 am. If the problem is communicated quickly that gives just 3 hrs and 15 mins to solve it and perform clean up around it. That is very difficult to do in the best cases and even harder to do remotely.
I'm an advocate a hybrid approach for remote ownership; using a local PM for the on the ground stuff but owning all of the guest interactions via the app. We intend to buy other STR's in other markets and will handle it this way.We do our own property management on our units and perform pm services for other hosts in Greater New Haven as their boots on the ground. Our pm rates vary based on the level of involvement that our host clients want to have.
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes7y
@Cory Macculloch and @Luke Carl Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
@Rick Bassett Thank you Rick for your much appreciated insight and feedback!!! It looks like you know and speak from experience and glad you could share your thoughts and experience with STR properties... I like the hybrid approach which seems to be the way to go for a long distance STR market. I do not have anytime to spend on managing the whole STR business and that was the reason I was thinking of a full turnkey STR management model.
Does anyone know or have heard of or used Evolve Vacation Rental Management services?
- 7yRick BassettBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
Originally posted by@Aldo Balatti:
@Cory Macculloch and @Luke Carl Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
@Rick Bassett Thank you Rick for your much appreciated insight and feedback!!! It looks like you know and speak from experience and glad you could share your thoughts and experience with STR properties... I like the hybrid approach which seems to be the way to go for a long distance STR market. I do not have anytime to spend on managing the whole STR business and that was the reason I was thinking of a full turnkey STR management model.
Does anyone know or have heard of or used Evolve Vacation Rental Management services?
Personally, I wouldn't trust a 3rd party to completely run my STR business if you were dependent upon earning 5-star reviews for future bookings. If you're in a destination place where the places rent themselves then I guess it doesn't matter. I'm not in such a place. :-)
Bassett Property Management5108 Reviews - Member since 2018 · 58 posts · 24 votes7y
@Aldo Balatti
Does anyone have any types for how you go about finding good cleaning and handymen? Also, how do people find VAs?
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes7y
@Rick Bassett That makes perfect sense to me... If you are in a hot and thriving vacation rental market, it might be possible to have it hands-off with a turnkey STR PM service provider! I need to find that STR vacation market golden nugget and in the process of doing my research now!!! I am thinking of a landlord-friendly warn and sunny State such as Florida or Texas with a year-around vacation market location with yearly high vacation rentals occupancy rate that is also STR-friendly short term and long term... Perhaps a snowbirds' vacation destination might be a great market!
- Kennesaw, GA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes7y
@Julie McCoy
I’m looking to get my first vacation rental in this market! I’d love to chat with you.
- Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
@Jennifer Dennisson Awesome, I just sent you a private message :)
- Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 4 votes7y
I used Evolve to rent my own primary house while I was away on an extended work trip in 2018. The 10% management rate was really attractive; at that rate you can cash flow in a lot of markets and I figured I would test them out using my own house to see if it would work before buying some STRs of my own (which I’ve still yet to do).
Overall, it was a pretty good experience and I’d tentatively recommend Evolve. The 10% rate is legit; they just take 10% off the top and send you the rest of the income at the end of the month. They handled all guest communications, scheduling the cleaner, etc. Ocassionally, the cleaner would have questions that could only be answered by me, and repairs would have to be OKd by me, but other than that it was pretty hands off. The Evolve owner dashboard was pretty good; it has a calendar where you can easily see when guests book your property and allow you to block off dates for yourself if you like.
The downside was that I didn’t have as much control in managing the actual listing, and I felt the quality of the photos, captions, and listing descriptions wasn’t all that great initially. You could tell it was written by someone who didn’t actually know the area. And while they hired a pro photographer to come out and take photos, I felt that the photos didn’t really “shine” and didn’t make the property look its best. It was a lengthy process to get them to change the description and captions to something better, and I ended up hiring a new photographer on my own dime to come out and take better photos. After that, the property was more successful.
So if you go with Evolve, I would spend the time and money up front to hire your own photographer and have a pre-written listing description and captions to make sure your property will look it’s best, and insist that you use yours. Other than that, their nuts-and-bolts aspects of their management services were pretty good, and may be what your looking for. Keep in mind that my experience was over a year ago now, they may have improved (or not) since then.
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes7y
Why in the world would anybody use evolve? The stuff they do is easy to automate with software. It isn't 10%, they also charge your guests a high commission. And since they're cheap, you can't use booking.com which is a significant source of leads. You still need to do the boots on the ground part which is what the property manager is actually useful for.
complete waste of time.
Originally posted by @Scott Armstrong:Does anyone know or have heard of or used Evolve Vacation Rental Management services?
I used Evolve to rent my own primary house while I was away on an extended work trip in 2018. The 10% management rate was really attractive; at that rate you can cash flow in a lot of markets and I figured I would test them out using my own house to see if it would work before buying some STRs of my own (which I’ve still yet to do).Overall, it was a pretty good experience and I’d tentatively recommend Evolve. The 10% rate is legit; they just take 10% off the top and send you the rest of the income at the end of the month. They handled all guest communications, scheduling the cleaner, etc. Ocassionally, the cleaner would have questions that could only be answered by me, and repairs would have to be OKd by me, but other than that it was pretty hands off. The Evolve owner dashboard was pretty good; it has a calendar where you can easily see when guests book your property and allow you to block off dates for yourself if you like.
The downside was that I didn’t have as much control in managing the actual listing, and I felt the quality of the photos, captions, and listing descriptions wasn’t all that great initially. You could tell it was written by someone who didn’t actually know the area. And while they hired a pro photographer to come out and take photos, I felt that the photos didn’t really “shine” and didn’t make the property look its best. It was a lengthy process to get them to change the description and captions to something better, and I ended up hiring a new photographer on my own dime to come out and take better photos. After that, the property was more successful.
So if you go with Evolve, I would spend the time and money up front to hire your own photographer and have a pre-written listing description and captions to make sure your property will look it’s best, and insist that you use yours. Other than that, their nuts-and-bolts aspects of their management services were pretty good, and may be what your looking for. Keep in mind that my experience was over a year ago now, they may have improved (or not) since then.
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes7y
@Scott Armstrong Thank you Scott for sharing your experience and feedback with Evolve' services and very much appreciated!
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes7y
@Rhonda Blue Thank you Rhonda for sharing your insight about your market!
- Rental Property Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 33 votes7y
Hi Aldo,
this is fairly common in certain markets. I have several friends who manage STRs for a profit share. I’d be happy to link you up and possibly give you a few ideas/places to target.
Best
-Jon
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes7y
@Jonathan Nixon Thank you Jonathan and very much appreciated your offer. I will send you a message for some feedback!
- Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes6y
Originally posted by @Julie McCoy:
Everything @Jon Crosby said. It is absolutely possible to manage your rental yourself from a distance (mine are 200 and 2000 miles away from me, respectively) with minimal time investment. Generally speaking a PM is going to take the lion's share of your cash flow, so if you don't absolutely need them, the cost isn't worth it. 20-30% is a good estimate, but in my primary market 30-40% is the going rate - and the performance a property gets through a PM is not going to be as good as one that is self-managed!
Definitely find a target market first and then start crunching numbers. The majority of my properties are in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, TN and it's fantastic for high occupancy and cash flow. The area has been a mecca for vacation rentals for a long time, and the local economy and service professionals are completely entwined with the industry. I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the market or logistics of operating there, if you like. :)
hi Julie, i am thinking about those market as well. However, i never bern landlord before, so i am just not sure how can i manage the properties without going inside and check after tenants leave each time. For example, if there are small problems such as plumbing, lighting issues, when tenants call, how can i fix it? As well as how can i clean it up after each stay? Maybe i make it too complicated, but would like to hear your strategy on remotely managing. Thank you!
- Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes6y
Originally posted by @Aldo Balatti:
I am in Canada and interested in having a vacation property in the US for short term rental in a long distance/far away market from where I am living. I am interested in having the STR property fully managed by a turn-key short term rental management company which takes care of everything and all the STR property marketing, bookings, maintenance, cleaning , etc. From my research, these turn-key STR management companies provide this full turn-key service for 20% - 30% of all the bookings.
Since I am living far away from the STR property, I am interested in knowing if anyone has had any success or issues with this type of long distance STR model? This could be with using a purchased rental investment property or using a STR arbitrage (sub-leased from a landlord) property. I am interested in knowing the pros and cons and what to look for or watch out for from people that have used this long-distance turn-key model.
Thanking you in advance and very much appreciated any insight and feedback you can share!
Hi Aldo, i came across your post when i looking for long distance STR properties. How is that go? Did you buy some properties? And where did you buy? Would like to hear your experience if you dont mind share? Thank you
- Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Ashley Zhang:
Originally posted by @Julie McCoy:
Everything @Jon Crosby said. It is absolutely possible to manage your rental yourself from a distance (mine are 200 and 2000 miles away from me, respectively) with minimal time investment. Generally speaking a PM is going to take the lion's share of your cash flow, so if you don't absolutely need them, the cost isn't worth it. 20-30% is a good estimate, but in my primary market 30-40% is the going rate - and the performance a property gets through a PM is not going to be as good as one that is self-managed!
Definitely find a target market first and then start crunching numbers. The majority of my properties are in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, TN and it's fantastic for high occupancy and cash flow. The area has been a mecca for vacation rentals for a long time, and the local economy and service professionals are completely entwined with the industry. I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the market or logistics of operating there, if you like. :)
hi Julie, i am thinking about those market as well. However, i never bern landlord before, so i am just not sure how can i manage the properties without going inside and check after tenants leave each time. For example, if there are small problems such as plumbing, lighting issues, when tenants call, how can i fix it? As well as how can i clean it up after each stay? Maybe i make it too complicated, but would like to hear your strategy on remotely managing. Thank you!
That's what you have housekeepers and handymen for! If something needs to be done, I hire someone to do it. I don't care if my STR is next door, I'm not cleaning it. My housekeeper can let me know if something is wrong, and then I'll call my handyman or the appropriate professional to fix it. There's just not that many things that go wrong, generally.
- Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes6y
Originally posted by @Julie McCoy:
Originally posted by @Ashley Zhang:
Originally posted by @Julie McCoy:
Everything @Jon Crosby said. It is absolutely possible to manage your rental yourself from a distance (mine are 200 and 2000 miles away from me, respectively) with minimal time investment. Generally speaking a PM is going to take the lion's share of your cash flow, so if you don't absolutely need them, the cost isn't worth it. 20-30% is a good estimate, but in my primary market 30-40% is the going rate - and the performance a property gets through a PM is not going to be as good as one that is self-managed!
Definitely find a target market first and then start crunching numbers. The majority of my properties are in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, TN and it's fantastic for high occupancy and cash flow. The area has been a mecca for vacation rentals for a long time, and the local economy and service professionals are completely entwined with the industry. I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the market or logistics of operating there, if you like. :)
hi Julie, i am thinking about those market as well. However, i never bern landlord before, so i am just not sure how can i manage the properties without going inside and check after tenants leave each time. For example, if there are small problems such as plumbing, lighting issues, when tenants call, how can i fix it? As well as how can i clean it up after each stay? Maybe i make it too complicated, but would like to hear your strategy on remotely managing. Thank you!
That's what you have housekeepers and handymen for! If something needs to be done, I hire someone to do it. I don't care if my STR is next door, I'm not cleaning it. My housekeeper can let me know if something is wrong, and then I'll call my handyman or the appropriate professional to fix it. There's just not that many things that go wrong, generally.
Thanks Julie! I guess its key to find a reliable housekeeper and handyman. Do you have any suggestions on how to find good ones? Especially in long distance? Thank you!
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes6y
@Ashley Zhang Hi Ashley, unfortunately, I have done a lot of research in AirB&B and vacation STR properties and markets but I did not buy any STR properties... I am currently looking at the BRRRR strategy for SFH and small multi-family properties where I can refinance the property after rehab and recycle my cash investments over and over as well as get cash flow and expand my property portfolio.
- Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes6y
Originally posted by @Aldo Balatti:
@Ashley Zhang Hi Ashley, unfortunately, I have done a lot of research in AirB&B and vacation STR properties and markets but I did not buy any STR properties... I am currently looking at the BRRRR strategy for SFH and small multi-family properties where I can refinance the property after rehab and recycle my cash investments over and over as well as get cash flow and expand my property portfolio.
Hi Aldo, thank you for your reply! I am at the same page with you. I like the cash flow of STR, however not sure if i can handle the work myself. Good luck to your BRRRR properties! I would like to hear your successful stories.
- Investor · Ottawa, Ontario Canada · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes6y
@Ashley Zhang Hi Ashley, Thank you for your reply message and all the best to you in your real estate property investments! Have you looked into extended stay STR for 31 days and over for corporate rentals and people on short term assignments and contracts such as engineers, doctors, nurses, etc. that travel and stay for 3, 6 or 12 months only? Good cash flow but not as much work required as AirB&B STR few days at the time bookings... You get around the AirB&B zoning and current & future local laws & restrictions...
- Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes6y
Originally posted by @Aldo Balatti:
@Ashley Zhang Hi Ashley, Thank you for your reply message and all the best to you in your real estate property investments! Have you looked into extended stay STR for 31 days and over for corporate rentals and people on short term assignments and contracts such as engineers, doctors, nurses, etc. that travel and stay for 3, 6 or 12 months only? Good cash flow but not as much work required as AirB&B STR few days at the time bookings... You get around the AirB&B zoning and current & future local laws & restrictions...
Aldo, that is a good point. Not sure how to get those contracts. I guess i can ad on FB. Thank you again!
- Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2024 · 28 posts · 27 votes2y
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Just to add to the pile. Our vacation home is about 360 miles from us and we manage it all remotely. No way I would pay 30% to a PM. We would lose any hope of profit.
What you need to do is find the area then start looking at cleaners and handypersons that can be your boots on the ground.
If you get good folks in that space, then you can move forward with the rest.
It isn't a cakewalk, but it ain't rocket surgery either.Michael, jumping in way late here, but what is a good rough estimate for monthly cleaning and maintenance costs as I run my numbers for a STR investment (looking in Tampa market if that helps)? Thanks!
- 2yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votesSo it really depends on the property location, age etc. For example, in 2023, we had only $180 in maintenance and that was furnace and A/C service contract. Nothing else was needed. Next year will be more as I will need to re-stain the deck.
Quote from @Trace Adams:
Michael, jumping in way late here, but what is a good rough estimate for monthly cleaning and maintenance costs as I run my numbers for a STR investment (looking in Tampa market if that helps)? Thanks!
Cleaning costs are a pass through cost most often. You can go out to Turno and get some bids on a sample property of the type you are looking at to get a better idea of costs.
The older your hard systems are, the more it will cost to keep them up. - Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2024 · 28 posts · 27 votes2y
Quote from @Michael Baum:
So it really depends on the property location, age etc. For example, in 2023, we had only $180 in maintenance and that was furnace and A/C service contract. Nothing else was needed. Next year will be more as I will need to re-stain the deck.Quote from @Trace Adams:
Michael, jumping in way late here, but what is a good rough estimate for monthly cleaning and maintenance costs as I run my numbers for a STR investment (looking in Tampa market if that helps)? Thanks!
Cleaning costs are a pass through cost most often. You can go out to Turno and get some bids on a sample property of the type you are looking at to get a better idea of costs.
The older your hard systems are, the more it will cost to keep them up.Thanks Michael. I hadn't thought about cleaning costs being passed through but makes sense now as there has always been cleaning fees in the airbnb's I have stayed in in the past. That helps my numbers for sure.
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