How are you handling Coronavirus cancellations?
Real Estate Investor · Summerfield, NC · Member since 2016 · 56 posts · 55 votes
How are you handling Coronavirus cancellations?
Most Popular Reply
John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votesI just had my first cancellation due to virus concerns. It was beyond the full price refund time.
I gave them a full refund. I think it was the right thing to do.
I don't live hand to mouth and I can afford to do this.
132 Replies
Originally posted by @Andrea Cole:
@Steve K. I agree 100% about allowing to reschedule. I usually give this option. 50% refund is also put on the table. I think your expectations are reasonable and personally, I'd rather NOT have a disgruntled guest stay with us. My point was never to take money and run. I agree we must all share in this burden but unfortunately not all guests are approaching it this way.
It sounds like you're taking a reasonable approach IMO. I know the situation is still developing rapidly and there are still many unknowns unfortunately. I'm sure many guests and hosts are still wondering how to approach this, and the platforms are likely discussing how they will support their hosts and guests. I'm planning to circle back with our host today (who is more of a corporate-type host with hundreds of STRs around the country who compares themselves to a "fine hotel" in all their advertising, and are priced like a fine hotel, which is why I feel comfortable holding them to at least some of the same standards as a fine hotel) and see if they have made any adjustments to their policy as the plot has thickened in the last week. An offer of at least some sort of discount or ability to reschedule will go a long way. If they don't work with us at all I will feel a bit burned. I only have LTR's personally but if I had STR's I'd be offering some kind of discount to those unable to travel right now for sure. At the very least if guests aren't coming I would think expenses will be lower (no cleaning fees, lower utilities, lower management fees), I would pass those savings on to the customers that have to cancel at least, and probably my profit margin as well in order to avoid negative reviews and also just because it seems like the right thing to do given the circumstances. Good luck STR owners! This sucks for everybody, and probably going to get a lot worse once people we know and love start to get sick.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Steve K. its why I personally would only use airbnb for very limited situations. I just got an email from Hilton all reservations can be cancelled with full refund as long as you do it within 24 hours of your stay or you can move them.
Just like all the airlines are giving full refunds or full credits.
not sure about rental car agencies i dont have a rental car reserved at the moment.
its tough mom and pop hospitality cant suck it up like a big corp.. those renting it and expecting to get some customer care can get pretty upset as we know. And maybe they use that experience to go back to using hotels ? we have one STR in Indy i need to check in and see how its doing..
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Frank S.:
Simple answer – refuse and lose – refuse to refund (give credit) and you risk losing customers and getting bad reviews. Hotels are cancelling/refunding without penalty. I just canceled my hotel for a conference at the last minute with no issue or hassle. Welcome to RE investing…it ain’t all roses…hope you kept good reserves...this may get ugly (hope I’m wrong).
How do you get a bad review from a guest who was never a guest? Does Airbnb allow anyone to post a review, guest or not?
What about this scenario?: the host refuses to give the guest a refund to cancel, so they don’t cancel, but don’t go either, and leave a really bad review.
- 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Frank S.:
Simple answer – refuse and lose – refuse to refund (give credit) and you risk losing customers and getting bad reviews. Hotels are cancelling/refunding without penalty. I just canceled my hotel for a conference at the last minute with no issue or hassle. Welcome to RE investing…it ain’t all roses…hope you kept good reserves...this may get ugly (hope I’m wrong).
How do you get a bad review from a guest who was never a guest? Does Airbnb allow anyone to post a review, guest or not?
What about this scenario?: the host refuses to give the guest a refund to cancel, so they don’t cancel, but don’t go either, and leave a really bad review.
We have plowed that ground already. Guest reviews are for guests, not folks who were going to be guests.
- 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Here is VRBO/Homeaway's position on their trip insurance policies:
Position Statement - Coronavirus Outbreak
The Coronavirus outbreak is considered a foreseeable event under any plans purchased on or after January 29, 2020. That means you could be covered if you are diagnosed with Coronavirus, but foreseeable events such as becoming quarantined due to the Coronavirus will not be covered. Please note, our plans will not cover fear of travel. Customers are strongly encouraged to read their Description of Coverage or Insurance Policy for details regarding their available coverage.
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Frank S.:
Simple answer – refuse and lose – refuse to refund (give credit) and you risk losing customers and getting bad reviews. Hotels are cancelling/refunding without penalty. I just canceled my hotel for a conference at the last minute with no issue or hassle. Welcome to RE investing…it ain’t all roses…hope you kept good reserves...this may get ugly (hope I’m wrong).
How do you get a bad review from a guest who was never a guest? Does Airbnb allow anyone to post a review, guest or not?
What about this scenario?: the host refuses to give the guest a refund to cancel, so they don’t cancel, but don’t go either, and leave a really bad review.
We have plowed that ground already. Guest reviews are for guests, not folks who were going to be guests.
What’s to stop somebody who is not offered any sort of refund for cancelling from simply not cancelling, not going, and then leaving a review based on their customer experience? If somebody has paid in full and doesn’t cancel, I would think that makes them a customer.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
@Andrea Cole I'm on the consumer side in this scenario: we were planning a quick trip next week for my wife's birthday, with my parents and her mother (who are high risk due to their age) flying in to meet us. We booked a property with VRBO months ago and asked them about cancelling last week when it first became apparent that the Covid-19 virus was spreading rapidly around the country. VRBO referred us to the property owner (a premier host that owns and manages hundreds of STR's in many locations around the country), who informed us that we could cancel but they would keep 100% of our money as per their cancellation policy, so we would lose several thousand dollars. I was surprised by that considering they advertise themselves as "exceptional service, high quality fine hotel experience" on VRBO and on their website. Considering how all the actual high quality fine hotels are refunding people's money no questions asked, I guess I expected any company claiming to hold themselves to the same standards to follow the best practices of the industry. Everyone is being advised not to travel at all right now for public safety sake, so it's not really a consumer's decision not to travel. But nope, they won't budge. Calling VRBO back to express my concerns resulted in this response "We are advising property owners to refund guests money considering the circumstances but ultimately it is up to them if they want to do that or adhere strictly to their existing cancellation policies". So we are in a position where we don't want to cancel and lose all our money, but traveling unnecessarily risks putting the health of ourselves and others in jeopardy by potentially spreading the virus, according to the guidance of public officials. Our parents have cancelled their flights already and received full refunds from the airline. I don't know what we'll do. The destination is only a few hours drive away, and we are not sick so we may still go even though the news media and public officials are saying that would be the irresponsible decision because even those of us not showing symptoms can still spread the virus. It would certainly make things a lot easier if the host would work with us somehow, either by refunding at least some of the money or by allowing us to rebook for a different time. My opinion of the property owner/manager is that they have not been professional and certainly not "exceptional" with their service whatsoever. Their representative was gruff and unapologetic on the phone which certainly doesn't fit their own description of themselves as providing "a high quality fine hotel experience". I think @Carolyn Fullers approach of being willing to refund 50% of her guests money is perfect, as it seems irresponsible for hosts to put people in a situation where they suffer a financial loss for not traveling when the public is being asked not to travel by health officials. If our host had offered to refund at least some of our money that would leave a much better impression. I've been a big fan of STR platforms in the past as a consumer but in this case I wish we had booked with a traditional hotel or resort seeing as those places are taking a more customer service-oriented approach. This situation has exposed a disparity in the level of professionalism and consumer protection between hotels and the STR platforms. It's nobody's fault that there's a deadly virus going around that is causing everyone to cancel their travel plans. Nobody forced me to book this trip and not buy travel insurance, yet at the same time I didn't force the host or the platform to invest themselves heavily in the travel industry without preparing for an event like this that effects travel either, or to not have adequate reserves in order to be able to provide good customer service and do the right thing in a situation where public health is an issue. Since all parties involved share some of the blame, I believe the best path forward would be for the hosts, the platforms and the consumers to all share some of the losses. The most fair solution in my opinion would be for hosts to refund part of the money, at least their profit margin and cover only their actual expenses, or allow guests to reschedule, and for platforms to step up and offer to help both their hosts and guests somehow. If neither the hosts or the platforms step up, I could see this event causing many consumers to reconsider using STRs over hotels/resorts in the future. It seems like a good chance for hosts whose reputation is important to them to distinguish themselves by refunding people's money, or at least part of it, or allowing them to reschedule. I definitely think there will be a shift in the property rankings as any hosts that are unwilling to work with people in this case are bound to get some negative reviews, or possibly even have to deal with guests disputing the charges with their credit card companies. Sometimes it's wiser to look at the big picture and take a short term loss in order to preserve your reputation long term. Allowing guests to cancel without losing all their money just seems like the right thing to do, given the current circumstances with a deadly virus spreading rapidly around the country and seeing as pretty much all public events, conferences, sports, parades, colleges, schools etc. are being cancelled and everyone is being advised not to travel. Hotels, resorts and airlines are taking that approach, so not working with guests to cancel at all right now and receive at least some of their money back... it's looking like that will be perceived as a substandard business practice.
Not cool. To your point, even if they just refunded the profit portion, it would be something. You are trying to be reasonable. It is strange, even if VBRO is just a marketing company, why don't they refund their cut?
I would call the credit card company and dispute the charges. Explain that the reservation involves elderly people who are under Federal guidelines to not travel. See if the credit card company is willing to reverse charges. It may not work, but it is worth a try.
Make sure to leave a review for the host.
We are also set to travel next week, but to a hotel. They have 24 hour cancellation policy.
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a class action lawsuit that comes out of this with VBRO and AIRBNB. Save copies of all your correspondence.
- 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Frank S.:
Simple answer – refuse and lose – refuse to refund (give credit) and you risk losing customers and getting bad reviews. Hotels are cancelling/refunding without penalty. I just canceled my hotel for a conference at the last minute with no issue or hassle. Welcome to RE investing…it ain’t all roses…hope you kept good reserves...this may get ugly (hope I’m wrong).
How do you get a bad review from a guest who was never a guest? Does Airbnb allow anyone to post a review, guest or not?
What about this scenario?: the host refuses to give the guest a refund to cancel, so they don’t cancel, but don’t go either, and leave a really bad review.
We have plowed that ground already. Guest reviews are for guests, not folks who were going to be guests.
What’s to stop somebody who is not offered any sort of refund for cancelling from simply not cancelling, not going, and then leaving a review based on their customer experience? If somebody has paid in full and doesn’t cancel, I would think that makes them a customer.
On Homeaway/VRBO, guests can't post reviews if they didn't stay at the property. We've been through this before.
- 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a class action lawsuit that comes out of this with VBRO and AIRBNB. Save copies of all your correspondence.
Of course there will be lawsuits. That's the American way! If something befalls you, find someone else to blame and get your pound of flesh. You didn't buy trip insurance? No worries - the HOMEOWNER is underwriting your risk. Of course, he's taking on all sorts of capital risk that you aren't, but facts be damned.
Nuts.
On Airbnb, with a strict cancellation policy, a guest can cancel (with 7 days notice) and receive a 50% refund of rent and 100% refund of cleaning fees.
If someone wants to lose thousands of dollars by not cancelling to leave me a bad review, I’ll take the $$$.
VRBO will remove any review from a guest who didn’t stay on property.
A bad review should be impossible based on this information.
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Steve K.:
Originally posted by @Collin Hays:
Originally posted by @Frank S.:
Simple answer – refuse and lose – refuse to refund (give credit) and you risk losing customers and getting bad reviews. Hotels are cancelling/refunding without penalty. I just canceled my hotel for a conference at the last minute with no issue or hassle. Welcome to RE investing…it ain’t all roses…hope you kept good reserves...this may get ugly (hope I’m wrong).
How do you get a bad review from a guest who was never a guest? Does Airbnb allow anyone to post a review, guest or not?
What about this scenario?: the host refuses to give the guest a refund to cancel, so they don’t cancel, but don’t go either, and leave a really bad review.
We have plowed that ground already. Guest reviews are for guests, not folks who were going to be guests.
What’s to stop somebody who is not offered any sort of refund for cancelling from simply not cancelling, not going, and then leaving a review based on their customer experience? If somebody has paid in full and doesn’t cancel, I would think that makes them a customer.
On Homeaway/VRBO, guests can't post reviews if they didn't stay at the property. We've been through this before.
Sorry I must have missed where that bit had been covered already, thanks for clarifying.
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 651 posts · 736 votes6y
I just had an Airbnb guest coming from Ohio for a 1 day conference that was cancelled request a 100% refund by quoting today's Bloomberg article on how "difficult" it was for guests to get 100% refunds from Airbnb. The guest was begging me to give him 100% refund.
(caveat: I really liked @Andrea Cole's email response a 1000 times better but we are taking a BIG hit financially and I rarely have the kind of visitors who could take advantage of a future reservation.)
My response:
I read the same article. As the article mentions, the host has no control over the Airbnb fees. And, on top of that, many hosts, like ourselves, are counting on our Airbnb income as a significant part of our retirement income.
In the last week alone, my husband and I have lost over $1000 in cancellations this spring. And that is just the beginning. None of our European or Asian guests have cancelled yet. All of them qualify for the 100% refunds.
And then there is that other part of our retirement income, our IRAs. Need I tell you what has happened to their value over the last week?
I am hoping we will all survive both financially and physically (my husband and I are in a high risk age bracket) but we all need to work together to get through the Covid-19 crisis.
If you cancel by Mar 25, you will get a 50% refund. I'm pretty sure that includes 50% of the Airbnb fees.
If you want a 100% refund, you must apply through Airbnb. And you are right. I suspect your case does not qualify for the extenuating circumstances clause.
Sincerely,Carolyn & Bill
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 651 posts · 736 votes6y
@Tommy Loretz I suspect that you booked an Airbnb with the many big organizations which own thousands of Airbnb units. They can afford to absorb these costs. The Mom and Pop hosts who are relying on their Airbnb units within their homes or adjacent apartment can not afford to absorb this financial burden on their own.
The thing is, those big organizations gobbling up rental units in destination cities around the world are increasingly becoming illegal because they are taking long term rental properties off of already very tight rental markets.
I prefer to support the Mom and Pop hosts when I travel. I'm sure that means I will not get a refund from the Airbnb I have reserved in May for a wedding that I'm becoming increasingly convinced will be cancelled.
But I do really love staying in Airbnb units owned and operated by the small owner/host, the ones that Airbnb was designed to support. It truly is like living as a local... There is nothing in the world that can replace that feeling that makes me want to become a full-time resident of a country where I speak not a word of the language! That feeling of authenticity is so worth not getting the 100% refund in the event of a natural disaster.
- Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes6y
@Collin Hays, I didn't realize you were the property manager and not the owner. I could connect you with my friend who is the GM of a hotel that saw $2M in revenue evaporate overnight. Fully cancelled without contracted penalties. He doesn't own the place either. His brand and ownership are dictating the rules, just like the online marketplace providers are for STR owners.
As for mom and pops in the travel industry...well that’d be me. I own and operate a specialty agency. A college professor called me late in the evening two Fridays ago to say, “the University pulled the plug. All international travel is cancelled.” $250K in revenue goes poof. I shake his hand verbally and start working on refunds and insurance claims. But I’ve been with him for over 25 years. My client. Not Airbnb’s or VRBO’s.
This morning a Superintendent of a public school district calls my cell phone and asks me to spell out the options for an upcoming HS trip. The money’s been paid to the vendors. The contract says 100% non-refundable. He readily admits all of that. But without hesitation, I write a report that shows we can recover close to 80% for them now if we cancel and that I’ll fight to get the other 20%. Or we can postpone and lose nothing (based on the strong cooperation in the industry among hotels, airlines, etc to save business). I could have kept all $100K and told them to pound sand while trying to recover the money on the other end. I’m sure there are people doing just that in my industry. I just got a call back that they are going before the school board to ask for special dispensation to take seniors on a trip after graduation. If it passes, I’ll keep the $100K in revenue....and the client.
I call my bus partner this morning to check in. He is extremely tied up in the NCAA tournament, and has been for years. It’s been, shall we say, an interesting 18 hours on that front. “Everything is cancelling. Everything. I’ll zero your group out, too” meaning he’ll refund it and eat the entire cost. I told him, “no, I’m still working to get them on the road, and I’m not going to let you eat the whole thing by yourself if they don’t travel.” If he goes under, I lose one of my absolute most valuable partners (and don’t get me started about my tour guide friends in Italy who have watched months of bookings vanish with no compensation, and the operators in Ireland who had thousands of people cancel this week when the country closed down the Patrick’s Day celebrations, and so forth). We are all in it together, and we help each other live to see another day.
I’m not telling any of you that you should eat your losses, and do it with a smile. I’m pointing out the business model (I too own an Airbnb) is built on a hospitality industry model, not the real estate model. That’s why Airbnb is doing what it’s doing. And while your homes might be an alternative experience to hotels (which is awesome!!!!), there is a reason Airbnb has fought with the hotel industry tooth and nail about everything from taxes to licenses, etc.
I once advised the President and try e CEO of a company I was working for about a project they were interested in. I had a deep background in it, and while it was tangential to their core business, they were finding a lot of value in it. It was the President’s pet project, in fact. At the end of the report, the CEO said, “that’s ridiculous. I have to spend a year on this project and risk all of that money to maybe make what we make in a week of our core business?” Different industries, different processes.
I wish you all luck. I really do. But here’s why you’re seeing what you see from the hospitality industry. And if you didn’t realize that’s what industry you were in, you might think about whether it’s the right one for you, long term.
- 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
In terms of our industry, the leadership that we are are seeing from the two powers - VRBO and AirBNB - is that they are washing their hands of even refunding guests who purchased trip insurance insurance. Now let's think about this: VRBO and AirBNB have been raking in untold $ millions in "trip insurance" premiums for just such occasions - sharing not a dime with the homeowners, they are now welching, and so as a consequence the homeowner is supposed to step in and indemnify the guest for the financial consequences of CV-19?
I don't see it.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes6y
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
@Andrea Cole I don't own STR but I don't expect a full refund because a show/concert/expo was canceled. Are hotels in the area giving full refunds? I am of the philosophy that if you wanted a refund in the future you should have bought insurance.
I wish there were more people like you on earth. Respect!
- 6yCliff H.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Nashua, NH · Member since 2014 · 599 posts · 477 votes
“it’s important to note that the impacts are highly localized — that is, the markets affected are largely limited to where the virus actually is. This may seem obvious, but it’s important to recognize that the vast majority of vacation rental markets are not in all-out panic mode.”
“Urban Markets Face Far Higher Risk Than Leisure Destinations.”
Source: https://www.airdna.co/blog/coronavirus-impact-on-global-short-term-rental-markets
Does anyone have guests that booked from Europe for dates in the next month? Given we instituted a travel ban, seems likely they would fall under an extenuating circumstance. Has anyone confirmed this?
I called ABB this morning and was put on hold for an hour and then the phone disconnected.I wonder if it's best to proactively cancel them so the calendar opens up so others can rebook, rather than wait for them to do it with an extenuating circumstance. Just want to confirm that a) it won't affect my Superhost status and b) they truly have an extenuating circumstance
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes6y
Originally posted by @Tommy Loretz:
@Andrea Cole
I was in Europe when President Trump banned foreign travel into the country. I’m currently writing this on the plane from London to San Francisco! We had to cancel several AirBNB locations and all were understanding and agreeable.
So if your policies contain a subsection for “worldwide infectious diseases” then follow it. But in all seriousness, I would never book with a person that didn’t refund for COVID-19.
And I would never host a guest like you who doesn't understand that we hosts are just like you. We are victims of this **** because YOU DECIDE NOT TO COME. I understand sometimes you don't have choice, neither do we. Especially since sometimes some of you guests have the choice. I have a family right now in one of my units who kept all their plans and kids are having fun at Disney this week in Southern California.
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 651 posts · 736 votes6y
@Andrea Cole Thank you for your suggested response. I got a call from one of my April bookings to say that the Boston Marathon is being postponed to the fall and he wanted to know if he could get a full refund. I had a lovely chat with him and told him that I normally rented our guest room on the extended stay market in the fall but that this year I would consider doing Airbnb in the fall and moving his reservation to the new Boston Marathon date. Otherwise, it would be a 50% refund. I also encouraged him to reach out to Airbnb to apply for an extenuating circumstance refund. He totally understood and agreed that it was reasonable for the guest and host to share the financial burden of these cancellations.
- Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes6y
@Andrea Cole I am glad that you found the answer you were looking for and feel great about your decision. It is very interesting to read this thread and learn the many different ways this situation is being handled by homeowners. Great question to post on here.
- Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes6y
Originally posted by @Andrea Cole:
We have a Strict cancellation policy but guests are asking for full refunds due to events that are cancelled in the area. We are not in a region of the US that Airbnb recognizes in the extenuating circumstance guidelines. I'm inclined to adhere to our cancellation policy but I'm having trouble putting into words the rational. Thoughts?? Am I being unreasonable?
Under normal circumstances I would stick to the policy but these are unprecedented times. Try to be a little more flexible with people for the short term, it will go a long way.
- Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes6y
Originally posted by @Kevin Lefeuvre:
I thought Disneyland was closed?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/media/disneyland-close-coronavirus/index.html - 6yCollin HaysBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steven Lowe:
Originally posted by @Kevin Lefeuvre:
I thought Disneyland was closed?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/media/disneyland-close-coronavirus/index.htmlSo did Clark Griswold.
@Steven Lowe It’s closing on Saturday 3/14, and the rest of the Disney parks are closing on Sunday 3/15 with the hotels closing on the 16th, until at least the end of the month. Disney is providing full refunds for any hotel bookings. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbsun.com/2020/03/12/disneyland-to-close-for-two-weeks-amid-coronavirus-concerns/amp/
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