New to RE, learning all I can, Bay Area based

New to RE, learning all I can, Bay Area based

New to Real Estate · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2025 · 1 post · 8 votes

Hey team,

New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

-advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

-suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

-and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

Cheers,

Chris

Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.

8Reply
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Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2023 · 182 posts · 104 votes
1y
Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

Hey team,

New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

-advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

-suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

-and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

Cheers,

Chris

Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.

Welcome Chris! I was a pharmacist/ business owner in the outpatient setting, trained in CVICU. You are spot on with the Bay Area properties not being able to cash flow, unless you get into large multi-units or doing STR/ MTR. Personally, I invest out of state, and a few of my colleagues do STR near Yosemite/ Tahoe areas. Happy to connect and share more about my experience!
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  • Member since 2025 · 143 posts · 90 votes
    1y

    Hello Chris,

    I hope you're having a good day so far. It's great to hear that you've been educating yourself and trying to look at the hard numbers. The numbers are important as you always want to anticipate unexpected costs and see what wiggle room you may have to ensure that you are making some profit. Real Estate is usually a good investment for long term wealth, especially with rentals as property value and equity increase over time.

    With regards to your concerns. Many investors that live in California have branched out of California because of how high prices are and have had success. I have seen same funds they use for one California property be used for two properties in different states. And with the slow exodus out of California, demand is growing for people looking to own and rent in different states. You did recognize the big concern with needing to rely on an out of state property manager or contractor, but that is normal for out of state investors and they can still be successful.

    With regards to the next 100 hours of learning, definitely recommend looking up market trends for real estate and what cities are growing versus having stagnant populations. You can also take real estate courses to keep sharpening your knowledge base. I would also recommend learning more about asset protection principles with LLCs and Trusts, including Charging Order Protection if you plan on venturing outside of California with your investments.

    Note: This information is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, tax, financial, or investment advice. No attorney-client, fiduciary, or professional relationship is established through this communication.

  • Payton HaightBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2021 · 124 posts · 86 votes
    1y

    hey Chris, welcome to BP and congrats on catching the 'bug'!  Somewhat similar to your situation, I got started in real estate investing when I was living in Southern CA (Orange County). The price point for a single family home or even a condo was pretty high and the long-term rental numbers did not meet my goals - in general they would not come close to cash flowing unless you're putting 50%+ down. I decided to invest out-of-state in the Midwest (Illinois and Ohio) where I was able to find properties that cash flowed and have also seen good appreciation.

    As far as advice for in-state vs out-of-state, I would have preferred investing in state, but the numbers did not make sense and I would have had to delay my investing journey by several years waiting to save a large enough down payment to get started. If you can find deals in your area that work for you, great. If not, you may need to look out-of-state to find deals that meet your goals. 

    When I was investing out-of-state, the most important member on my team was to have an investor-friendly real estate agent. Not only can they help you find a property, but they should be able to provide feedback on rents, contractor contacts, handyman contacts, and property managers (if needed). 

    I am investor-friendly agent in Columbus, OH with actual investing experience. I would be glad to chat any time if you have questions or are just looking for feedback.

    Payton Haight

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1y

    Common challenge for a lot of new investors, so don't feel you're the only one dealing with ths!

    There are a lot of markets where rentals don't readily cashflow and investors are really betting on appreciation for their gains. Appreciation should be a long-term investment play - as many recent investors in Florida are finding out as that market resets.

    Read below about our thoughts:

    Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location to invest in.

    Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?

    Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.

    The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

    Both Property Class and Tenant Class affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies will work on a property.

    If you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will rent it?

    Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

    So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met and it may even be a financial disaster.

    We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:

    • Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
    • Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
    • Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”

    Key metrics for each Property Class:

    Class A Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
    Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
    Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.

    Class B Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
    Tenant Default
    : 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Vacancies
    : 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
    Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.

    Class C Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
    Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
    Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.

    Class D Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
    Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.

    Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
    Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.

    Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?

    Check out this chart:

    FICO Score

    Pct of Population

    Default Probability

    800 or more

    13.00%

    1.00%

    750-799

    27.00%

    1.00%

    700-749

    18.00%

    4.40%

    650-699

    15.00%

    8.90%

    600-649

    12.00%

    15.80%

    550-599

    8.00%

    22.50%

    500-549

    5.00%

    28.40%

    Less than 499

    2.00%

    41.00%

    Source: Fair Isaac Company

    Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

    Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.

    We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!

    DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

  • Sam McCormackBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH/NKY · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 833 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.


     Househacking is the first route I would take, but I know that isn't an option for most. But if possible for you, I would 100% recommend that route

    OOS investing requires more educating and trust. Figure out what you want, and then hunt for the best market that fits that. Talk to people, educate yourself, etc etc. But most importantly is finding out what you want out of a market/property, then go find that market. Would love to talk more about it, as well as the Greater Cincinnati market. Shoot me a message if you do!

    Sam McCormack Realtor
    View Page
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.


     Sem-retired MD has an excellent program for doctors to go through. Would also suggest going to local real estate meetups and finding out what your neighbors are doing to invest

  • Samuel DioufBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus & Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets Chris!

    Bigger Pockets is a great place to learn and connect with fellow investors.

    If you’re looking to invest long distance, I definitely recommend building your core-4 team. This team consists of an Investor Focused Agent, Lender, Contractor, and PM.

    Read this article on the "core 4". It explains the team that you should develop to have a strong foundation under you while investing remotely.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/core-four-real-estate-team

  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.

    Hi Chris! If you live in the Bay Area, you should definitely consider investing out of state. As an investor, you should look into income hacking. It's a concept which you earn a high income in your local market but you use the capital to invest in a much cheaper up and coming real estate market where you can still find cash flow and tons of appreciation! You can get 5 rentals in Columbus Ohio (all of them which hit the 1% rule and appreciate) for the price one 1 rental in California! I definitely recommend checking Columbus Ohio, it's one of the fastest growing markets in the US. For example  Intel headquarters, Google, FB, Microsoft, LG, Amazon, Nationwide, Honda, etc. Additionally, the price point is still cheap enough to find the 1% rule and positive cash flow and it's super landlord friendly (so you will never have to go through a 12 month eviction or anything close to that!). Lastly, the price point is still very cheap here in the sense that you can still find investment deals that hit the 1% rule for 120-180k! Happy to connect and answer any questions you have!

  • Mike PaolucciBusiness Member
    Realtor · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 493 posts · 550 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.

     Hey @Chris Vandivort, I'm born and raised in North Beach, San Francisco. Ran into the same issue when I got first started and ultimately decided on OOS investing. Just made more financial sense imo. Lower cost of entry than the bay area and most of CA for that matter. 

    The teams (realtor / lender / property manager / contractors) you employ will be critical to your ability to invest out of state. I'd recommend something more on the light value add / turnkey single family variety as a first investment. Just easier to manage, more desirable for renters and will appreciate better over time. 

    You'll also want to make sure you do plenty of your own research on the various markets in the state you're looking to buy in. 

    Happy to answer any questions you might have. 

  • Memphis, TN · Member since 2024 · 234 posts · 100 votes
    1y

    Hey @Chris Vandivort!

    Love your mindset and how methodical you're approaching this! You're 100% right that Bay Area properties rarely pencil out for cash flow, especially for first-time investors who want to avoid swinging too hard out of the gate. That’s exactly why so many professionals like you are turning to out-of-state markets like Memphis. Out here, you can still find fully renovated single-family homes and small multi-families in the $100K–$150K range that actually cash flow after expenses. It’s one of the few markets where long-term rentals are still viable without major capital risk.

    You mentioned being cautious about contractors and management teams, and that’s smart. The key is working with a vertically integrated team that handles everything: acquisition, renovation, and in-house property management. In Memphis, we focus on B-class neighborhoods with strong demand from tenants working at places like FedEx, St. Jude, and now Ford’s massive Blue Oval project. Homes rent fast, tenants stay longer (our average is 3.5 years), and we maintain a 98% occupancy rate with an eviction rate under 1%.

    As for how to spend your next 100 hours: dig into market fundamentals (population trends, job growth, rent-to-price ratios), study how to analyze deals conservatively, and learn how to vet property managers and contractors if you’re not going turnkey. BiggerPockets podcasts and books are gold, but also check out real-world case studies from investors in markets like Memphis where the numbers work.

    If you ever want to see what that kind of setup looks like in practice or walk through some real-world deals, I’d be happy to share. You're in a great position—smart, motivated, and cautious in the best way. You’ve got this!

  • Brooke MeltonPro Member
    Member since 2025 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    1y

    Hey Chris,

    I totally feel your pain—I'm based in Santa Barbara, CA, where the median home price is over 5 times the national average. It's overwhelming to even think about making million-dollar investments right out of the gate.

    Fortunately, I moved around a bit when I was younger and bought homes that are now rentals. It's definitely possible to manage properties from out of state (at least for your first couple), or hire a property manager to help out. That said, the first management company I hired went MIA within a year, so I started managing my own properties—and learned a lot in the process.

    I recently left my W-2 job to be more present for my two adopted kiddos and decided to focus on growing my portfolio. I’m now actively looking out of state. There are so many great markets out there, and if I could do it in my 20s with zero experience, you absolutely can too.

    I've house hacked my SB home, currently manage both a short-term and long-term rental, and I’m putting in an offer on a duplex today. Good luck—you’ve got this! Living out of state doesn’t have to be a setback. There’s so much opportunity waiting.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2023 · 182 posts · 104 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.

    Welcome Chris! I was a pharmacist/ business owner in the outpatient setting, trained in CVICU. You are spot on with the Bay Area properties not being able to cash flow, unless you get into large multi-units or doing STR/ MTR. Personally, I invest out of state, and a few of my colleagues do STR near Yosemite/ Tahoe areas. Happy to connect and share more about my experience!
  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Hey Chris,

    Welcome! I used to live in SF too, but now I’m down on the Central Coast. I actually went up for Bryan Johnson’s first Summit last September. I’m a big fan of longevity space!

    As for real estate, I’ve been investing in Detroit for a few years now. It’s definitely a market with its challenges but if it fits your goals, it can be a great place to make things happen. I’ve built a 12-door portfolio there and have extensively documented my journey, including the pros and cons, performance numbers, and lessons learned.

    If Detroit sounds like it might be of interest, I’m happy to share some of those resources with you! It’s not a market for everyone, but if it clicks, it can make a lot of sense.

  • San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 13 votes
    1y

    In our coastal CA cities most 1-4 unit properties will not cash flow as you have found out. The easiest I have found is offsetting your living costs by buying a duplex. There are lots of ways lenders make buying hard, but the duplex has a lower bar than 3 or 4 units. Buy well and it will be cheaper than owning/living in your own SFR. It's a starting point and low risk.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    I invest locally and in the Indianapolis metro area. For context I did live in Indiana so I didn't pick a random market 2000 miles away. I've had mixed results. The short version: Class A (nice suburb with great schools) owned since 2013 is doing well except I have significant property tax increases, Class C I would never ever buy again - projected cash flow on paper (with 6.99% interest rate on my mortgage)  but in reality I'm -$300 to-$500 a month from repair calls and the costs from property management.

    As far as house hacking, I do know someone who bought a home with a $150k salary (which isn't high by Bay Area standards), lives in the 400sq ft ADU and rents out both levels of the SFH on AirBnb. This is in San Francisco and she is fully booked most of the year so she's making great rental income. Not sure what part of the Bay Area you're located as far as STRs working

    Another suggestion is Sacramento area. You can also do midterm rentals or STRs but it's more to traveling professionals since Sacramento isn't know as a huge vacation destination. Maybe buy a duplex and do one side as LTR and other side as MTR to help with increasing cash flow a bit? 

    If you're going to go OOS I would pick Nevada - Reno is 4 hour drive and Vegas is a short flight. NV has the one of the lowest property tax rates in the country and great appreciation. 

    Btw... you said the magic words "I'm in California" and triggered the keywords "out of state" and "O-h-i-o" ...LOL 

  • New to Real Estate · Miami, FL · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 453 votes
    1y

    Chris, you're thinking like a pro already. You're right, the Bay Area rarely cash flows and carries high risk for a first deal. Out-of-state can work well if you vet markets, property managers, and contractors carefully. Many investors build strong portfolios that way. Spend your next 100 hours on deal analysis, DSCR loan education, and how to vet out-of-state teams. Happy to support you on your journey!

  • San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 13 votes
    1y
  • Scott ScovilleBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2019 · 497 posts · 272 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Chris Vandivort:

    Hey team,

    New to real estate investing.  I've had the bug for a while and have read a few books and tried to pencil out the occasional deal, but I'm looking to get more active now that I've gotten to the "some breathing room" point in my career.

    Mostly looking to do long term rentals. Probably SFH or duplexes to start. Not entirely clear to me if I'd like to go full BRRR (don't know that the macro situation is good for that strategy right now), but something I could put a little rehab into so I can get immediately ahead on equity would probably be ideal. Wouldn't be opposed to flipping opportunistically if I happened to get lucky with a hot market/great offer, but plan A would be long term rentals.

    Really looking to find a good way to get a first property under my belt and learn a lot without risking too much capital.

    The wrinkle is that I live in Bay Area CA. Most houses and duplexes here do not seem to be priced to cash flow from my back of envelope math. Plus, prices are high enough that, while I could afford one, it would be a bigger swing than I'd want to take for my first one, allowing for rookie mistakes and etc. If it didn't go well, it would potentially hit me a lot harder than I'd like it to.

    The alternative might be to look out of state, but I haven't really found any good advice about that. Seems like I'd be a little bit at the mercy of contractors/vendors/and potentially sketchy property management people, although I'm sure some people have made it work.

    To anyone thinking about responding, I'm looking for:

    -advice on that in state/out of state dilemna

    -suggestions for how to spend the next 100 hours of learning

    -and really any advice you might have!!  I'm an open book.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    Edit: About me - I'm a longevity doctor (MD), very much health obsessed.  Relatively new to the Bay Area and very open to Bay Area connections whether actionable or not.


    Hey Chris, welcome BP and investing. I'm just a few hours away in Sacramento, investing and flipping. Looking forward to connecting on BP and seeing your journey.

    Scoville Realty & Investments LLC
  • Real Estate Coach · Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 171 posts · 64 votes
    1y

    Hi Chris! You have an awesome background! I think you are attacking your first deal with the right mindset! I'd be happy to help you hone in your strategy and take the steps necessary to tackling your first deal!

  • Ben HowardPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2017 · 160 posts · 67 votes
    1y

    Hello Chris. You may also want to consider a mid term rental in Folsom.

    I posted a series of comments in this Bigger Pockets feed https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1164202-folsom-could-see-over-500-000-square-feet-of-new-doctor-s-offices-and-medical-clinics

  • Terrance HillPro Member
    Realtor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2010 · 425 posts · 117 votes
    1y

    Hi Chris, 

    Your instincts about the local Bay Area market are spot on — most SFH and duplexes won't cash flow easily without a huge down payment. Many investors in your shoes look out of state to affordable, landlord-friendly markets like the Midwest or Southeast. The key is to build a strong local team (a trustworthy property manager, a local agent, and a solid contractor). Start by networking with other investors who buy long-distance successfully — BiggerPockets and local REI groups (in person or virtual) are great places to do this.

    Next 100 hours of learning:
     Pick one target market (even just one city) and go deep — research neighborhoods, price-to-rent ratios, average expenses, property taxes, etc.
     Read a beginner-friendly book like Long-Distance Real Estate Investing (by David Greene) and listen to podcasts focused on out-of-state investing.
     Schedule a few informational calls with property managers and investor-friendly agents in that market to understand the landscape.
     Run the numbers on real listings using BP calculators to practice your underwriting — this will help you spot a good deal faster.

    Advice for your first property:
    If your first deal is out-of-state, go small — maybe a turnkey or a light value-add you can finance easily without a big cash reserve. Treat it as a “learner deal,” not your forever deal. Building confidence and processes is more valuable than hitting a home-run initially.

    And definitely lean into your local network as well — other Bay Area investors often partner together to buy in affordable metros.

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