Hello from Dallas! New Investor Excited to Get Started.

Hello from Dallas! New Investor Excited to Get Started.

Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes

Hello everyone!  I'm writing to introduce myself: I'm Justin, and I live in Dallas, TX, arguably one of the fastest-growing markets in the US, both by population influx and real estate demand.  I came across BiggerPockets as one of the first resources I encountered when I became interested in real estate investing, starting off with the BP podcast (I've marathoned ~60 episodes in two weeks) and the site itself.

I'm excited (and to be honest, a fair bit intimidated) to get started in real estate investing, and I thought I'd reach out to the community to get more involved and accelerate my learning process.  I've done a fair bit of research over the past few weeks, reading books such as What Every Real Estate Investor Needs to Know About Cash Flow, The ABCs of Real Estate Investing, and Investing in Duplexes, Triplexes & Quads.

As I'm starting out, I'm interested in investing in single family residences and 2-4 unit multifamily for a long-term buy-and-hold strategy.  I have an initial goal of attaining $3,000 per month ($36k annually) in income derived from real estate investments in order to supplement my full-time job.

To kickstart this post, I thought I'd ask some questions to the community that I've been pondering over the course of my real estate education:

  1. First, market timing: I have the sense that the Dallas market has been on the upswing for the past several years, accelerating even more rapidly since the announcement of several major companies (including Toyota) moving to Plano.  I'm concerned I'm jumping in at a time when values are high and getting higher; at the same time, I don't want to wait too long to get started in real estate investing.  What are your thoughts on whether (or to what extent) I should be concerned about buying when the market is hot?
  2. A quick question on entity structure and insurance: As I'm planning on investing in multiple properties over the long-term, I'm considering forming a series LLC in Texas, which has several benefits in terms of administrative cost reduction (relative to having an LLC per property). My question is whether (or at what point) should I consider having umbrella insurance? Are there rules of thumbs governing this decision?
  3. Areas to consider: For those who are familiar with the Dallas market, would you consider Plano/Allen/Frisco to be essentially tapped out?  I've spoken with several local real estate folks who have said the demand is now stretching as far as McKinney and Denton.  What areas might you recommend I start looking for deals?
  4. I'm planning to cross-post this introduction to the Dallas subforum, but if anyone here reading this is from the Dallas area, please reach out!  I'm excited to meet others who share an interest and passion in real estate.

A big thanks to everyone who took the time to read this wall of text, and I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.  =)

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Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 201 posts · 95 votes
10y

Hey @Justin C. and welcome to BP and the world of Dallas REI!

I like your strategy of multi-families in Dallas! MF were a steal in Dallas when I got into them around 2011 but have found MF particularly inflated the last year or two, even more so than SFR. As far as timing, I don't see a crash or correction coming anytime soon to DFW so you may just have to suck it up and know you won't get the deals you would have a year or two ago. That is of course unless you market to motivated sellers finding off-market deals though as a beginner that might be a bit of a stretch.

Personally, I started buying in Sherman, TX waaay north of the growth in SFR rentals and have been quite happy. A $55K house with a little cosmetic updating and clean up can easily rent for $950 which is good cashflow and better than long-term rentals close to the metroplex. If you do decide to stay closer to Dallas also consider being an early adopter of short-term furnished rentals (i.e. Airbnb) which can get you to your $3000 goal quicker. I have 4 that are crushing my other long-term monthly rental.

LLC is the right move.

Good luck!

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  • Realtor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 90 votes
    10y
    I'm in Mckinney, I have watched home prices creep up. I share your concern for market timing so would look forward to hear from people more seasoned.
  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Roland, it's great to meet you!  The rise in home prices has been eye-opening.  I moved to Dallas one year ago, and at that time, single family homes in Carrollton were in the mid-$300k range.  Now it's easily in the mid-$400s.

    What has your experience been like in the market?  Do you have investment properties currently, and if so, what type?  Have they been doing well for you?

  • Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Justin C.

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets. Make sure to read the Beginner’s Guide: http://www.biggerpockets.com/real-estate-investing

  • Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    Welcome, Justin! Single family and multifamily are very different animals. Before you jump in, I suggest that you join a couple of local networking groups that strictly focus on multifamily to get a sense of what is happening in the multifamily market. You will learn a lot and will make connections with people that will be valuable resources.

  • Andy WebbPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Carrollton, TX · Member since 2013 · 750 posts · 538 votes
    10y

    @Justin C. - umbrella insurance is dirt cheap - you can get $1M for a few hundred bucks a year.  Once you have a few properties, I would recommend going that route.

    Concerning LLCs, consider coming out to this meetup tomorrow - there will be a real estate attorney speaking and should be able to best answer your questions:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/521/topics/34...

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mark Nolan:

    @Justin C.

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets. Make sure to read the Beginner’s Guide: http://www.biggerpockets.com/real-estate-investing

     Thank you for the warm welcome, Mark.  I have indeed read the Beginner's Guide, and it's proven very helpful in providing initial guidance.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Anton Mattli:

    Welcome, Justin! Single family and multifamily are very different animals. Before you jump in, I suggest that you join a couple of local networking groups that strictly focus on multifamily to get a sense of what is happening in the multifamily market. You will learn a lot and will make connections with people that will be valuable resources.

    Thank you, Anton. I very much agree; SFR and multifamily require a different set of knowledge and expertise. Are you familiar with the Dallas market, and if so, would you share your opinion on trends within the local multifamily market?

    I've found multifamily properties (specifically 2-4 units) to be relatively rare in the northern Dallas suburbs.  The focus here seems to be either single family or large 50+ unit apartment complexes.  At the same time, I think the relative rarity of duplexes/triplexes/quads could be a competitive advantage distinct from the hundred of competing offerings in north Dallas.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Andy Webb:

    @Justin C. - umbrella insurance is dirt cheap - you can get $1M for a few hundred bucks a year.  Once you have a few properties, I would recommend going that route.

    Concerning LLCs, consider coming out to this meetup tomorrow - there will be a real estate attorney speaking and should be able to best answer your questions:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/521/topics/34...

    Thanks, Andy.  And I much appreciate the meetup information - I don't think I would've come across it otherwise, and I'm planning to attend.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 35 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Good luck on everything, I have been trying to get started here the last couple months in DFW, but everything is over priced and does not cash flow. Of course, I am only checking listings twice a day, before and after work. 

    I have also tried new western acquisitions and other wholesalers, but the whole "cash buyers only" and "hard money lender needed at ridiculous rates" and "the market is so hot, you won't have time for proper inspection" and "awesome 3/2 in Plano for 150k, ARV 450K" is a little too much for me to handle...

    Best part was an agent sending me CMA for a property that were all cheaper/sq ft on a property I inquired about, and said it was priced appropriately. Best part? It was still sold within 3 days. Another property I saw I was posted on a Saturday night before sleeping, woke up next morning to inquire, it was under Active Option Contract. This makes it really hard for a person to a day job to compete against these full time investors.

    In the meantime, will be looking outside the metroplex for better returns and less gimmick. If anyone knows better less competitive areas, let me know! :)

  • Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    @Justin C. I am not familiar with the 2-4 units segment but my hunch is that you should treat your underwriting the same way as you would for single family homes. Starting out on the multifamily side, I suggest that you have a look at C or lower B class properties (workforce housing). It all depends how much of your own funds you have available and whether you would be willing to partner up with others. That will determine what type of properties and size you really can consider.

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 201 posts · 95 votes
    10y

    Hey @Justin C. and welcome to BP and the world of Dallas REI!

    I like your strategy of multi-families in Dallas! MF were a steal in Dallas when I got into them around 2011 but have found MF particularly inflated the last year or two, even more so than SFR. As far as timing, I don't see a crash or correction coming anytime soon to DFW so you may just have to suck it up and know you won't get the deals you would have a year or two ago. That is of course unless you market to motivated sellers finding off-market deals though as a beginner that might be a bit of a stretch.

    Personally, I started buying in Sherman, TX waaay north of the growth in SFR rentals and have been quite happy. A $55K house with a little cosmetic updating and clean up can easily rent for $950 which is good cashflow and better than long-term rentals close to the metroplex. If you do decide to stay closer to Dallas also consider being an early adopter of short-term furnished rentals (i.e. Airbnb) which can get you to your $3000 goal quicker. I have 4 that are crushing my other long-term monthly rental.

    LLC is the right move.

    Good luck!

  • Real Estate Agent · Sherman, TX · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    I agree with Ryder. Things are going strong here in the Sherman Denison area and it's much more affordable for someone who is just starting out. Feel free to send me a message if you would like to know more about this area. I have several properties around here and I know the market very well.
  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Thanks, @Dustin N..  I've no doubt I'll hit those same challenges you're facing, haha.  The DFW metroplex is such a large area that I'm confident there are deals to be had in less competitive areas.  South Dallas, in particular, seems virtually ignored, and there are excellent areas around there for growth (e.g. Bishop Arts District).

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Thanks, @Anton Mattli. That is sound advice.  B and C-class properties are a bit intimidating, but I've been looking into techniques/tips for tenant screening, which should hopefully alleviate the worst of any potential issues.

  • Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2010 · 511 posts · 252 votes
    10y

    @Ryder Meehan, How you are finding properties in Sherman from California?

    I like to explore this area, i live 30 miles away and i never been to Sherman.

    How is rental market there..?

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    I appreciate the welcome, @Ryder Meehan!  Thank you.  Getting into the Dallas market in 2011 is great timing, and kudos to you.  I agree that growth in the Dallas market doesn't appear to be turning anytime soon.

    I hadn't considered the Sherman/Denison area (despite having done market research on it for unrelated projects).  That's a great idea.

    Regarding your furnished rental properties, where in Dallas did you set your's up?  I pondering doing something similar in Anaheim, CA, because Disneyland is a huge tourist draw; however, I'm hard-pressed to think of a similar attractor in Dallas.  Perhaps near the AA Center or Fair Park?

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Thanks, @Tanner Barclay.  It sounds like I may be looking fairly far afield for the right deal, and I'll reach out soon.

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 201 posts · 95 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Shital Thakkar:

    @Ryder Meehan, How you are finding properties in Sherman from California?

    I like to explore this area, i live 30 miles away and i never been to Sherman.

    How is rental market there..?

     Hi Shital, I am originally from Dallas and very familiar with the market before relocating to SF a few years go.  Currently I buy my properties through marketing to motivated sellers and having a local partner inspect the deals.

    Sherman is an excellent market for rentals in my experience and has strong future appreciation potential as DFW expands north.  Denison I would still stay out of

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 49 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    Hi all!

    I live in the San Francisco area, but I'm investing in Dallas.  It took me 6 months, but I finally found a property that met all of my criteria.  The last six months have been smoking hot, with houses flying off the market in hours.

    I would say get a good real estate agent who knows the neighborhoods, and have them find your property for you, especially for the first deal.  After you get your feet wet and figure out what neighborhoods you like, you can be more creative.  For example, if you love the neighborhood where your first property is located, maybe you can have your ear to the ground and find out if any neighbors are thinking of selling.  Or just write a letter to the neighbors and say your are interested in buying their house.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 112 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    Dallas market is feeling topish, however those jobs that you speak about haven't even gotten here yet.  The appraiser that I spoke to yesterday said that rents growth and home values are slowing down.   They grew so fast for the last 3 to 4 years that incomes have not be able to keep up and that we may be reaching price resistance because of the blue collar people that we rent to don't want to spend any more of their income on housing.  So we may slow to more normal rates for Dallas.  At least the 100K to 200K market that makes good rentals.  My advice is buy, but purchase on today's numbers not what it is going to increase to.  Also keep in mind that your property taxes will be going up on most of your properties that you purchase below market rate.  

    Inside the loop of 635 and then North Dallas to Collin county the prices probably will continue to go up on the 300K + homes, but these do not make good rentals.  The return on investment is not there.  

    If you purchase the rental with solid numbers with at least $200 a month cash flow after 

    Principal
    Interest
    Taxes (about 2.9% of value)
    Insurance
    Management (8% to 10%) rent
    Vacancy 6% of rent
    Maintenance/capital reserves 5%to6% of rent

    You should be good in a down turn even if rent falls a little bit.  You are purchasing these units to hold them.  If there is a dip the market will bounce back in two to four years.  I am refinancing equity out of my properties to have cash to try to buy some more.

    I think before you start looking at entities you should ask yourself the question.   What is my net worth?  What do I have that the plaintiff is coming after.  If it is not much.  Then you may want to think about just having 1 million or 2 million umbrella liability coverage for the first few properties.  Will they go after this or your 300-400K homestead which probably has a loan on it or the 1 million dollar policy?  Don't let an llc slow you down on purchasing your first rental unless you are buying it all cash.

    If you want to get the best rates and terms then you can't use an LLC to purchase the property. Fannie mae 30 year 4.5% ish rate. Local banks that will loan to LLC's 20 years and at least 5.5% rate. You can always quit claim the deed to the LLC later.

    Umbrella Insurance is cheap compared to a series LLC, for the most safety have both.

    Plano/Allen/Frisco probably do not have too many of the 100 to 200K properties that make great returns as rentals.  

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Hi @Nikki Stoddart, and congrats on finding that property!  Are there particular agents you'd recommend for the Dallas area?  Preferably someone who is a real estate investor him or herself and understands the criteria investors use for evaluation.  And thank you for the sound advice.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @David Veeder, thank you for the outstanding and thorough response.  I hadn't considered rising property tax or the option to quitclaim property at a later date, and I'm incorporating your cash flow estimates into my deal analysis model.

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 201 posts · 95 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Justin C.:

    I appreciate the welcome, @Ryder Meehan!  Thank you.  Getting into the Dallas market in 2011 is great timing, and kudos to you.  I agree that growth in the Dallas market doesn't appear to be turning anytime soon.

    I hadn't considered the Sherman/Denison area (despite having done market research on it for unrelated projects).  That's a great idea.

    Regarding your furnished rental properties, where in Dallas did you set your's up?  I pondering doing something similar in Anaheim, CA, because Disneyland is a huge tourist draw; however, I'm hard-pressed to think of a similar attractor in Dallas.  Perhaps near the AA Center or Fair Park?

     Sherman is great for monthly rentals, incredibly affordable and has a good chance of appreciation in coming years.

    My short-term rentals are in the Lower Greenville area and stay booked consistently.  I don't think you necessarily need to be near a Disneyland (though it certainly is nice and get a premium!) or international attraction for the model to work, just a central location and a nice space.

    @Nikki Stoddart funny seeing you here, haha - glad you found your way into the DFW market!  We'll have to get a coffee again soon - I finally got my Airstream rental in Dallas going live next month!  Much to catch up on.

  • Real Estate Investor/Broker · Irving, TX · Member since 2015 · 520 posts · 263 votes
    10y
    Build cash if you're concerned. Buy low, sell high.
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