Rocky start to turnkey investing --> perspective needed

Rocky start to turnkey investing --> perspective needed

Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 37 votes

Hey BP Community- Wanted to share a bit of my story here to get some perspective. I started reading the site back in January and after many conversations and a few site visits, I decided to purchase two out-of-state SFRs using the same turkey provider (both closed at the end of April). I’ll write a longer post about my purchase experience later but overall it was incredibly smooth and easy…. I even had both properties appraise for more than purchase price! Both homes are in solid class B neighborhoods in TN with rents between $1,000-1,200/month.

My frustration began once the tenants moved in. Both places were rented at the time of closing with deposits and first month (May) paid at lease signing. Property 1 has been a disaster from a first-time investor’s standpoint. The tenants basically stopped paying and communicating after moving in and we had to file papers to evict at the end of June. I had a court date last week where possession was granted back to me. If the tenant doesn't pay in full (i.e. 2 months) in 10 days, we file a writ to remove the tenants and I have to start over.

Property #2 has been better, but not smooth. They paid in full for June (thank goodness), but only paid a partial amount for July (about 60%) with the promise of paying in full by July 12th. It’s now the 16th and they still have not paid in full and are not responding to the management company. I’m not sure where this one will go, but I’m certainly not brimming with confidence.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand that stuff happens and being a landlord is more than just “collecting checks”; you’ve got to have a stomach for some unpleasantness and for things to not go as planned. However I've got to say, I wasn't mentally prepared for such a rocky start. In the three months I’ve owned, I'm running about 50% vacancy (on average) for 2 properties! I had hopes of buying 2-3 more SFRs before the end of the year, but now I don’t want to do anything until I see these situations resolve and I quantify the bleeding.

Does anyone else have a similar experience? Or perhaps words of advice to give me some perspective? Feeling a bit dejected at the moment….

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Rental Property Investor · Culver City, CA · Member since 2012 · 403 posts · 246 votes
8y

 @Jesse S. If the same company placed both these tenants it's time to change your management company. When I started I did that "no, let's work with the company and give them a fair chance." Experienced investors told me to move on but I didn't. That ignorance cost me thousands. Now I've got experience and I'm telling you - Ditch 'em. Don't give problem tenants or management second chances, unless you're running a charity. 

Sounds harsh, but I'm telling you, I learned the hard way. 

I'd start by reaching out to @Antoine Martel and ask about him about management. Memphis has good options and a lot of experienced investors on here who can help. 

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  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @Jesse S. - I know you're looking for some different perspectives here and I think you have gotten them.  One thing that has been noted a couple of times is that property management is the key ingredient in your success.  However, even with the best management, problems can occur.  You haven't shared enough on here to really come to a conclusion about exactly what happened and you don't have to share any more either.  But, I do think you need to look into one thing.

    If you borrowed in order to buy these properties and were closing on both at the same time, it is possible that the properties had to be occupied with a signed lease in order for you to close.  You would have to ask the lender, unless you already know that to be the case.  If you had to have signed leases in order to make DTIs work on closing two properties at the same time, then I would be concerned with having an immediate default without making a payment.  The second one getting behind is less concerning unless they too fail to catch up and become eviction #2.  

    Perhaps an app was approved that would normally be turned down in order to create the scenario for you to close?  That would definitely suck and I am not saying that it happened, that would be unfortunate and it is much more probable that a professional renter slipped through the cracks, but it is something you need to check into.

    As for getting a little more perspective, here is my take on Memphis.  As far as Memphis is concerned, I hate when I hear management companies talk about how hard it is to qualify tenants.  In fact, I hate the word tenant.  Jacksonville Wealth Builders (JWB) shared a great mind trick with us and they used it in their company to change the way their team viewed and treated tenants.  They quit using the word and instead used the word resident.  We instituted this a couple of years ago and it truly changes the dynamic of the resident/management relationship.  It conveys respect and it changes everything.

    Memphis and Memphis renters are not an issue when you treat the residents as an equal partner with a valuable role to play in the success of an out of state owner.  So don't fall for the line that this is just how Memphis works.  Yes, it happens, but with a little respect and patience added to the process, most of the professional renters can be smoked out long before they sign a lease.  

    Best of luck to you and I hope your other property is already paid up!

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 37 votes
    8y

    @Ryan Mullin my gut says there is an element of this happening. I've been very happy with the turnkey provider but I noticed that every house I looked at had a rent to sales ratio of 0.90%-1.10%.... a little too precise to be a conscience. Since both properties rented for slightly more than the pro-forma, I'm guessing they got in someone who was stretching their budget to afford a nicer place and they shouldn't have been approved in the first place. I'd rather a slightly lower rent with a more creditworthy tenant.... if I do have to evict, I will certainly take a more proactive role in setting rent and screening tenants. Thanks for the perspective! 

    @Chris Clothier thanks for your note. I actually closed on the properties about a week apart and both were vacant at the time of underwriting. I had residents (love that!) move in about two weeks after closing.  So I dont think what you described was the issue. I haven't given up on Memphis. This is a long-term investment for me and I think Memphis is a great place to start. More than anything, I'm grateful to learn some of these tough lessons early on so I don't fool myself into thinking that out of state investing is easy. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    Jesse S. Now a days if you get anything over 1 percent for a turnkey property (at least in Memphis) that’s about as good as you can hope for at Least from what I’ve seen. If it’s much higher you may not be in a good area. I hope it works out for you.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jesse S.:

    @Ryan Mullin my gut says there is an element of this happening. I've been very happy with the turnkey provider but I noticed that every house I looked at had a rent to sales ratio of 0.90%-1.10%.... a little too precise to be a conscience. Since both properties rented for slightly more than the pro-forma, I'm guessing they got in someone who was stretching their budget to afford a nicer place and they shouldn't have been approved in the first place. I'd rather a slightly lower rent with a more creditworthy tenant.... if I do have to evict, I will certainly take a more proactive role in setting rent and screening tenants. Thanks for the perspective! 

    @Chris Clothier thanks for your note. I actually closed on the properties about a week apart and both were vacant at the time of underwriting. I had residents (love that!) move in about two weeks after closing.  So I dont think what you described was the issue. I haven't given up on Memphis. This is a long-term investment for me and I think Memphis is a great place to start. More than anything, I'm grateful to learn some of these tough lessons early on so I don't fool myself into thinking that out of state investing is easy. 

    risk/reward plays out in rental properties like most all investments.  

  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jesse S.:

    @Jason Carter thanks. I learned the hard way when I house hacked years ago that 2nd and 3rd chances are not ok unless you are running a charity. Thanks for the reminder!

    @Ali Boone

    @Ali Boone Thanks for the perspective on PM. I'm hoping it turns around for these properties, possibly with a new PM. And no, no rental guarantee came with the houses.  

    Not as many turnkey providers offer those these days, but you can still come out ahead. I'd definitely consider the new PM route.

  • Investor · Tel Aviv, Israel · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    Hi @Jesse S. , I have to agree with @Jason Carter . 2 out of 2 is too much ! especially for $ a 1,000 + houses. 

    So , whether the PM/TK were eager to push the #'s to make the investment look lucrative or it was just negligence on the PM - I would switch . PM me if you need any recommendation. I'm doing this in Memphis for the past 4 years . There were times when I had properties sitting vacant but my PM just wouldn't approve shaky applications. That's what you want.

    On a positive note - congratulations on jumping into this world !( most people are too scared to take the field ) . 

    Just hire a good PM and you'll be fine. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Jesse Hoffman most times its that dang hvac which is a 2k fic or 4 k replacement. Dang another one when out this past week.

    The other times its some kind of water related thing because of plumbing or rain.

  • Investor · efrat, israel · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 20 votes
    8y

    Amir,

    Would you be willing to share who your property manager is? I have not invested long distance due to knowing that the PM is the key to getting and keeping good tenants, and I want a long term PM I can rely upon.

    Thank you. 

    Shoshana

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