Has Bigger pockets jumped the shark?

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Has Bigger pockets jumped the shark?

David DuCille
Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes

This was an amazing resource when i started investing a few years ago. In the past 6 months to a year all I get is spammed by wholesalers.  Has this site gone the way of Facebook and grown a bit too much?  These are "pro" members as well so bigger pockets probably doesn't care because they are making money off of them.  

are there any rules against overt spamming and solicitation on here?  I'm tired of getting bs messages that say "hey I'm a wholesaler in Tampa I got deals". They are always absolute junk...  And the people contacting me are early 20s inexperienced people that haven't really done deals.  They are clearly being hired by someone to essentially cold call/lead generate.  We all gotta do business but it's become over the top lately.  This used to be a site where when you had a bonafide deal you could network with people not grasp at straws.

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Jeff CopelandBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

Hi David,

While I agree there are a lot (and maybe a lot more?) new and inexperienced investors on BP these days. To be fair, that's kind of their mission: Making real estate investing accessible and giving everyone an opportunity to learn, and no one is forcing you to be a part of it. 

My thoughts: The wholesalers will find your email address anyway (If not from BP, the from a dozen other sources if you are active in the REI business). I get dozens of wholesaler emails daily, and I never signed up for 99% of them. It's a normal part of being in the business, and I don't think its fair to blame it on BP.

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  • Jeff CopelandBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Hi David,

    While I agree there are a lot (and maybe a lot more?) new and inexperienced investors on BP these days. To be fair, that's kind of their mission: Making real estate investing accessible and giving everyone an opportunity to learn, and no one is forcing you to be a part of it. 

    My thoughts: The wholesalers will find your email address anyway (If not from BP, the from a dozen other sources if you are active in the REI business). I get dozens of wholesaler emails daily, and I never signed up for 99% of them. It's a normal part of being in the business, and I don't think its fair to blame it on BP.

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  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    I dunno @David DuCille, I blame it on Tampa!  What say you @Jeff Copeland :)

    It's like hobo signs.  Respond once and word goes out.  You just have to be diligent to keep deleting.  And remember that in that pond of frogs is a princess somewhere.

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  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    6y

    Real Estate is very trendy again. Its a sign of the times

    5Reply
  • Catherine Emert
    Realtor · Bend, OR · Member since 2018 · 323 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    This made me giggle - as a real estate agent/broker we should all be used to spam and junk mail and buyers/sellers that aren't real...it's part of the gig in my opinion and it's always fun to find the true gems out there.

    3Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    6y

    Sounds like maybe you havnt been through a full real estate cycle yet. This is merely indicative of where in the cycle we are and has nothing to do with the platform.  The later and later in the cycle, the more and more emails, txts, contacts from inexperienced wholesalers. As we cycle down they will shrink, then atart to increase with the next cycle.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    I don't give them the time of day in commercial real estate. They often do not know how to evaluate a property and are grasping at straws. I have never seen a decent deal from them in about 17 years in the business.

    If a wholesaler TRULY had an off market property that was an amazing deal that could be different but often almost 100% of the time they say it's off market and it's not. They are just trying to be a go between and misrepresenting themselves to try and make a quick buck.  

    I like doing deals with owners directly or other brokers.

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  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Sounds like maybe you havnt been through a full real estate cycle yet. This is merely indicative of where in the cycle we are and has nothing to do with the platform.  The later and later in the cycle, the more and more emails, txts, contacts from inexperienced wholesalers. As we cycle down they will shrink, then atart to increase with the next cycle.

     I think this is the best and most accurate response yet!

    3Reply
  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    I don't give them the time of day in commercial real estate. They often do not know how to evaluate a property and are grasping at straws. I have never seen a decent deal from them in about 17 years in the business.

    If a wholesaler TRULY had an off market property that was an amazing deal that could be different but often almost 100% of the time they say it's off market and it's not. They are just trying to be a go between and misrepresenting themselves to try and make a quick buck.  

    I like doing deals with owners directly or other brokers.

     Amen, bonafide real estate people really don't need to put "deals" out to the masses, they have enough relationships to make them happen on their own.

    3Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    The last downturn cycle hundreds of thousands or more agents left the business. The champions carry on and the weak leave the business.

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  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Catherine Emert:

    This made me giggle - as a real estate agent/broker we should all be used to spam and junk mail and buyers/sellers that aren't real...it's part of the gig in my opinion and it's always fun to find the true gems out there.

     There is a big difference between being an agent/broker and real estate investor though.  Huge difference.  I agree it comes with the territory.  My point is it's been getting very excessive beyond normal amounts recently and I'm not talking about my personal email box, I'm talking about here in bigger pockets specifically.  

    0Reply
  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jeff Copeland:

    Hi David,

    While I agree there are a lot (and maybe a lot more?) new and inexperienced investors on BP these days. To be fair, that's kind of their mission: Making real estate investing accessible and giving everyone an opportunity to learn, and no one is forcing you to be a part of it. 

    My thoughts: The wholesalers will find your email address anyway (If not from BP, the from a dozen other sources if you are active in the REI business). I get dozens of wholesaler emails daily, and I never signed up for 99% of them. It's a normal part of being in the business, and I don't think its fair to blame it on BP.

     I don't disagree and im not complaining about my personal email and that spam.  Bigger pockets used to be a safe haven of sorts and it was more of a discussion basses networking site to learn from.  Now it's just becoming spam central for me.  Just like Facebook used to be an awesome tool to keep in touch with friends and family from afar but it has evolved into something else.

    0Reply
  • Catherine Emert
    Realtor · Bend, OR · Member since 2018 · 323 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @David DuCille I understand there a difference between an agent/broker and an investor....Your title states you are an Agent from Tampa. My point was as an agent we should all be used to spam. Bigger Pockets is for everyone and I think it's great the newbies are even trying better to email everyone and get 1 yes than to never know. I understand it's annoying, but just delete them.

    1Reply
  • Matt J.
    Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 112 votes
    6y

    @David DuCille I agree with you for the most part. Majority of wholesalers send garbage.

    With that being said I was contacted by a wholesaler in Tacoma, WA last year. He probably sent me 30+ deals to look at before I found one I liked. I bought an 8 plex he found and walked into 150k of instant equity (thanks @Jeff Carter).

    My thought is it only takes me 5 mins to run numbers and I'm seeing properties before they hit the MLS.

    2Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    The PMs are not a big deal...you can just ignore or block them.

    The constant cut and paste hidden advertisements are problematic...on some posts, every reply is an ad.

    The luring of members to PMs that are actually sales pitches are fine because they reveal who not to partner with.

    The lies about investment performance are bad.

    The moderators have their hands full.  And it can't be fun or easy to get in the way of someone trying to make a living.

    6Reply
  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    The PMs are not a big deal...you can just ignore or block them.

    The constant cut and paste hidden advertisements are problematic...on some posts, every reply is an ad.

    The luring of members to PMs that are actually sales pitches are fine because they reveal who not to partner with.

    The lies about investment performance are bad.

    The moderators have their hands full.  And it can't be fun or easy to get in the way of someone trying to make a living.

     Great response Mike. For the masses, I want to make it clear, I'm not ragging on BiggerPockets in any way or blaming them.  Just simply noting that all.good things come to an end and wondering if this is the beginning of the end for BP 

    what annoya me is my he same company keeps having different people harass me.  Networth realty in Tampa, one day I'm gonna show up in your offices and you won't like me.  That may be what it takes to stop having your interns, new hires,etc call me!

    0Reply
  • Adrian Chu
    Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 427 votes
    6y

    Everyone is an investor inspired by Fortune Builders :)

    0Reply
  • Andrew DeWeerd
    Rental Property Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2017 · 81 posts · 41 votes
    6y

    WOW @David DuCille what a problem to have!! I find myself in the opposite place where I'm a relative newbie, where deal flow is my biggest constraint to growth at the moment, and I can't get myself on ENOUGH wholesale lists! I've just closed on my second and latest wholesale deal (rental door #5), a BRRRR to be, and I want to have my eyes on any and all off-market deals in Manatee (Bradenton) and Sarasota counties!

    ( For deal requests that goes in the real estate marketplace. You need to be a Plus, Pro, or Premium member) 

    1Reply
  • Joe Cassandra
    Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes
    6y

    I don't spam people with fake wholesale deals (as I'm not a wholesaler)

    But I do cold message some people here...and people in my area about deals they have, questions I have based on a post I saw, what they're looking for etc. Because I don't have time to attend multiple networking events every week. 

    I find as long as I approach the relationship carefully, most pros in RE are open to helping. 

    Next week will be meeting with a 20-year pro who is interested in being a private lender...

    Yesterday, after a few back and forths, the agent I messaged revealed his client is sitting on 59 off-market properties that he's looking to dump. 

    --------

    I get this post was lambasting the fake lenders and wholesalers...

    But cold emails, PMs etc. are how I built contacts in this industry, and how I built my marketing company from $0.

    0Reply
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @David DuCille biggerpockets can't police your private messages, nor do I think you want them to.

    We have rules that we ask members to adhere to, and one is spamming. However; you can easily delete any unsolicited messages, or respond asking them to stop sending. If they won't, let us know.

    1Reply
  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @David DuCille I hear you and I have my own interpretation here.  BP was once a forum that was unmonetized.  A forum can only grow so far before someone has to choose between keeping their "labor of love" just that or make a BIGGER impact in the world and figure out "the business" and scale and monetize parts of it.  That is exactly what BP is doing now (at least from my vantage point) because their vision is massive... help 1 million people to financial freedom through real estate. 

    With scale and monetization, comes people who truly care and still believe in the Mission, Vision, Values of the original intent of the business, then those who are only opportunistic.  If you don't like the opportunistic people, don't give them your precious time and energy.   

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  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @David DuCille first of all, as a moderator, I have been given direction to moderate PRO and free members exactly the same. 

    That being said, the number of people "walking the line" of self promotion with their posts seems to have increased. Moderators are actively working to fight this. There are three dots in the upper right hand corner of any post. YOU can report a post that you believe violates the rules. So as a member, I encourage you to do your part to help by reporting suspect posts.

    Part of what is happening is BiggerPockets has become successful and is attracting more users. Any time there are more users, there will be more people attracted to try to make money from those users. So when a platform is small and unknown, there are no people trying to sell things. 

    Of course there is advertisement, because without it, there would be no free membership. Just like Google or Facebook advertise to keep their services free. Just like television advertised for 50 years before the internet to keep their programming free. 

    The good news is four moderators have responded to your post. That should be evidence that people are monitoring what is happening and care about these forums. I think you raised a valid concern. Thank you!

    8Reply
  • Anthony Wick
    Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I get more spam to my email from people selling life insurance and the like than I do because I am a part of BP. I don't know. Tampa must be a lot more popular than Iowa. Lol. 

    0Reply
  • Michael Sockwell
    Woodstock, GA · Member since 2016 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @David DuCille

    I haven’t had that experience but I’m also new. Seems like often security can be too tight. I tried reaching out to some hard money lenders and because I used copy and paste my account was frozen after only 3 emails. I don’t know how anyone is able to spam. I had a deal a needing funding for and like I said I’m new so I was just reaching out for options.

    0Reply
  • David DuCille
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 122 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @David DuCille first of all, as a moderator, I have been given direction to moderate PRO and free members exactly the same. 

    That being said, the number of people "walking the line" of self promotion with their posts seems to have increased. Moderators are actively working to fight this. There are three dots in the upper right hand corner of any post. YOU can report a post that you believe violates the rules. So as a member, I encourage you to do your part to help by reporting suspect posts.

    Part of what is happening is BiggerPockets has become successful and is attracting more users. Any time there are more users, there will be more people attracted to try to make money from those users. So when a platform is small and unknown, there are no people trying to sell things. 

    Of course there is advertisement, because without it, there would be no free membership. Just like Google or Facebook advertise to keep their services free. Just like television advertised for 50 years before the internet to keep their programming free. 

    The good news is four moderators have responded to your post. That should be evidence that people are monitoring what is happening and care about these forums. I think you raised a valid concern. Thank you!

     Thanks Joe, appreciate the response.

    0Reply
  • Kata Walters
    Rental Property Investor · Palm Desert ca · Member since 2016 · 101 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    @David DuCille I got in trouble from BP for putting my YouTube link in a response to a new investor because I had done a topic in what she was asking . It made sense I didn’t even think twice that it was any type of self promotion . They removed the post and sent me a blanket “slap on the wrist “ email. So they should be focusing on the actual solicitation and spam instead of me when I was actually genuinely trying to help someone ! For no reason besides helping them . I liked this site more like 2 years ago .

    1Reply
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