Is ANYTHING Worth Fighting For?

Is ANYTHING Worth Fighting For?

Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I've been wondering lately if the American people would rise up and fight for ANYTHING? My personal opinion is that the American people would give up every single right they have (including their property) and become virtual slaves to a socialist/communist/fascist government without any fight whatsoever (or has that ship already sailed).

Is there ANYTHING that YOU would fight for? Anything at all?

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Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
17y

For full disclosure, I did not read the entire thread..... Politics gets boring. Too many viewpoints, not much in the way of facts

here are some facts

As a young man I served in the USMC. I was an infantryman in Desert Storm. We were ordered to go out and do terriable things to young men just like ourselves, it was our duty. We all took the oath. We all wanted to be there.

In the name of my wife and children, I would do much worse to any involved, with a smile on my face......

I know a Vietnam jarhead, he was with 1/9, the walking dead. Those guys know what a bad day really is.

We spoke about Mrs Neopalatiano and her singleing out of Vet's as a threat.

His comment was. " that is the only person in DC that understands what a threat is", LOL

We are blessd as a country. Go to the Westbank and ask this question.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    youtube...And thus faux news was established.

    unfortunately I think CNN was there first, long ago... lol... I particularly enjoyed watching the next "saviour of the world" on that channel before he was elected in pure communist fashion.

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Shana Gray:


    unfortunately I think CNN was there first, long ago... lol... I particularly enjoyed watching the next "saviour of the world" on that channel before he was elected in pure communist fashion.


    I was referring strictly to the target audience that faux news is tending to, Shana. Let's not confuse the 2.
    As for "elected in pure communist fashion" I assume that's a purely rhetorical faux news talking point, unless you have the personal experience to back that up. I do, and I can tell you that's a crock of... along with others peddled on the same frequency.
  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    sorry I just realized what faux news is, being Canadian I took the translation literally as "false news" or "fake news"

    I was just joking about how Obama supporters were recruited, and lined up chanting his name, but many of them when they are interviewed either don't know anything about politics, or support republican viewpoints (as per videos I posted).

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    Sorin T, when you refer to personal experience, I am curious what you mean by that? you are American, right?

    btw your comments have made me laugh tonight, and thanks for that. hope I don't come across too hard on my points, everyone.

  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y

    Can you provide any supporting evidence to your statement that most pro-lifers are conservative in their other beliefs? I can't find any statistical data, so I'm curious where your idea that "most" are conservative comes from.


    How about ALL pro-lifers that I know are conservative. Yes I said ALL. I don't see a poll out there that asked the question. Do you have one that says the opposite?



    Btw, all my research has indicated that up until a couple decades ago, nearly all left-leaning women were pro-life, and even now, many, many people who claim to be liberal in other aspects of their political belief are pro-life.


    And "all your research" consists of what? The entire country is leaning pro-life. What are you talking about when you say up until a couple decades ago they were leaning pro-life? Are you implying that the left leaning women are now leaning pro-choice? Not sure I'm understanding that comment, please clarify.




    Do you know [i] that is happy with Obama? I'd love to talk to them and see exactly what he's doing that they're so happy about. I have not seen a poll that says one way or the other but I suppose I could sit around, collect un-employment, welfare and every other gov. handout like the other Obama supporters and do the research to prove you wrong but I'll opt to laugh it off and run my business for now.


    Hmmm...according to my research, less than 1/2 of a percent of the eligible population has bought their first gun since Obama was elected (certainly, many gun owners have bought additional guns, but that's not the point of your comment).


    Gotta love it, you call everyone out saying there is no "Data" to support what they are saying and then in your next comment talk about your what your "research" shows. Where exactly are you doing this "research" and where is the "Data" to support your comments?


    Do you have any evidence to support your claim that gun ownership is spreading like crazy? Or any statistical data to support that my .5% number is off?


    YES I do. How about this, from a LIBERAL newspaper too:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/03/have-you-recent.html

    And another:

    http://wcbstv.com/topstories/gun.sales.president.2.862716.html

    You took my comment out of context and now it makes no sense. I'll be happy to revisit this later, for now we'll deal with your other bs.


    Most people in this country listen to the media and do not do their own research to figure out what is really going on


    I absolutely 100% agree, and until you can provide some data to support some of the things you said above, I'm going to assume that you are part of this group.


    First off, we can have a debate all day long but don't EVER assume that I am part of "this group" that listens to the left wing media.That too me is an insult, debate like an adult and I'll continue, but insult and I'll go on about my business rather then say what I would like to and get kicked off this forum. I respect the forum and don't care to hear someone try and trash me or anyone else on here. Bring the facts or stop posting.


    Jeff

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    Thanks for proving my point, Shana. A joke is all there is, no substance to back it up.

    And kudos to you, first of many Canadians I know writing patriotic letters to White House or making statements like these

    "I don't think the average American really understands what a terrorist is.

    I don't think most people even know why we are at war."

    Now, if you'll allow us to tell you how your socialist ice bank should be run properly...

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    also had a good laugh at the YouTube videos.

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    would love to have more Americans out in Western Canada where apparently 2/3 of BC's GDP is proceeds of organized crime. we don't have just Liberals to deal with, also NDP, but Conservatives are in power right now.

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    actually we also have the Bloc from Quebec and the Green Party, so at least 5 parties in Canada.

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    I volunteered on construction projects in eastern Europe summers of 91 and 93 and travelled a bit in the area. Sobering to think it was not that long ago that parts of Europe were still communist. I love the USA and everything it stands for.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    [
    I wasn't aware I had the same Constitutional rights as a Qatar citizen living in Illinois who pled guilty to being part of an Al Qaeda terror cell.


    Let's not distort the discussion...

    It's not a question of whether you have the same rights as resident alien who has pled guilty of crime, it's whether you have the same Constitutional rights as resident aliens who have not been found guilty of a crime (remember, he hadn't been found guilty of ANYTHING when his rights were denied, and I have no problem with him being deported after he pled guilty).

    The Supreme Court has been clear that immigration is a matter of administrative law, not criminal law. Aliens are protected under the Bill of Rights in the same manner as citizens.

    Some recent Supreme Court Rulings that uphold this:

    http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/judrev/judrev032.htm

    Fouad Yacoub RAFEEDIE v. IMMIGRATION & NATURALIZATION SERVICE

    Demore (INS) v. Kim

    Just because you might not be aware of this fact (admittedly, above), or because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not the case.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Shana Gray:
    J Scott here's a couple videos I think you haven't seen...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU

    and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlTgrMCxPg


    First, I have seen them.

    Second, I don't form my political opinions by listening to Howard Stern.

    Third, I find it horrible that so many people here seem to try to make their arguments using tiny sets of empirical data.

    It's like me saying: Here look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XmerZEyHE

    to try to prove that everyone who disliked Obama was an idiot.

    Sorry to have to point it out, but just because you can find a video on YouTube to support your belief doesn't prove anything.
  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y

    Most people in this world suffer from 2 things.

    Conformation Bias
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    Cognitive Bias
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

    Throw in societies "noise" or distortion if you may, you kind of have the whole thing in a nutshell

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    I meant J Scott. Losing track of my liberals...lol.


    I'm not a liberal. I'm a Constitutionalist. I couldn't care less what the laws were, as long as they are based on a reasonable interpretation of the Constitution.

    For example, I really don't care if abortion is legal or illegal, as long as the determination is made in accordance with how the Constitution says it should be.

    As another example, I have historically earned more income than 99% of the country, but I don't really care if taxes go up or down, as long as they go up or down legally.

    Likewise, I really don't care who the President is, as long as he upholds the Constitution.

    So, using emotional arguments or non-supported data to make your arguments really isn't going to sway me. I don't really care what the laws are, as long as they are in accordance with the Constitution and how it defines the balance of power.

    I don't claim to support Obama, but I do claim to have opposed the last administration, as I believe they did more to trash the Constitution in the past 8 years than any administration in history. When I see Obama trashing the Constitution, it pisses me off just as much as when Bush did it.

    But, if it makes you feel better to consider me a liberal (or whatever), so be it.
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jeff And Cheray Warner:

    How about ALL pro-lifers that I know are conservative. Yes I said ALL.


    Whether it's true or not, it amazes me when people make large scale generalizations about the entire country based on:

    1) A tiny sample of people, that
    2) Are not random, and
    3) Happen to be in their own social circle.

    So, your argument here is that because all your friends agree on something, it must be that way for the whole country?

    I certainly can't win arguments against those tactics, so I give up.

    You win.
  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y

    J Scott,

    You didn't answer my question so I'll ask again:

    I don't see a poll out there that asked the question. Do you have one that says the opposite?

    Jeff

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jeff And Cheray Warner:
    J Scott,

    You didn't answer my question so I'll ask again:

    I don't see a poll out there that asked the question. Do you have one that says the opposite?


    No, I don't.

    Which is why I didn't make any assertions about it. I don't like to make assertions without any data.

    You made the assertion, so I assumed you had the data to support your assertion. I questioned if you have the data to support the assertion that you made, and you didn't. Instead, you asked for data to support that you were wrong. This is backwards...I don't need to prove that everything you say is incorrect...instead, you need to prove that the things you say are correct.

    If you don't have data to support an assertion, then it's just a "belief". I'm okay with you believing anything you want, but understand that without any data behind it, it's just your belief, and doesn't necessarily have any relationship to reality.

    Btw, if you need evidence (not proof, as it's not statistically significant) that there are liberal pro-lifers out there, here's you go:

    http://www.democratsforlife.org/

    http://www.feministsforlife.org/

    http://www.plagal.org/

    http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/content/press/2006/08/confounding_christian_stereoty.html

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jeff Tumbarello:
    Most people in this world suffer from 2 things.

    Conformation Bias
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    Cognitive Bias
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

    Throw in societies "noise" or distortion if you may, you kind of have the whole thing in a nutshell

    WHOA Jeff, you give most people (myself included) too much credit here, never hoped/considered that thought process to be so complex as described above.

    Although word on the street is, there are some intelligent people out there, not stupid...

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    J Scott would you mind posting a pic? it's a bit creepy and impersonal talking to someone without a pic. hope that is ok.

    thank you for participating in the housing market as we need that.

    I was wondering if you are as passionate about supporting America outside of America as you are about supporting it inside America. considering that USA is 5% of the population of the world.

  • Homeowner · Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN · Member since 2009 · 23 posts · 4 votes
    17y

    I love threads in which people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything argue about anything and everything.

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Chris Pelach:
    I love threads in which people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything argue about anything and everything.

    How can you be certain to identify "people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything "? I'd like to be able to do that myself.
  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    sadly all the Liberals I spoke to personally (a lot) were far less educated than those in the videos. most had been told to vote for Obama and other than that were oblivious. they had been recruited. regardless. I have my theories that Obama won the election mainly due to recruiting uneducated (in a political sense) former non-voters. youth and black population. they have the right to vote. next he may be going for future immigrants. if you love your country, this should bother you. http://ow.ly/cAyb

    on another note... I love following John McCain on twitter.. he is a true American hero.. check some of his latest comments which reflect outcomes of liberal economic policy.

    Admin claims 150,000 jobs "Saved or Created"-what about the 1.6 million American jobs lost & unemployment topping 9.4% since the "Stimulus"?

    Unemployment rate: pre-Stimulus 8.1% or 12.5 million Americans/post-Stimulus 9.4% or 14.5 million Americans - jobs "saved or created"???

  • cottage country / Cobourg area, Ontario · Member since 2009 · 201 posts · 5 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Chris Pelach:
    I love threads in which people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything argue about anything and everything.


    are you referring to yourself? I think it's too late for the rest of us.
  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    sadly I could make a blanket statement such as this:

    All Canadians I spoke to were adamantly opposed to almost everything the good old USA did and stood for during the past 8 yrs' administration. In particular, after the 2004 elections they questioned me repeatedly with "what the h...l is wrong with you people?" Having lived in OH, the deciding state in 04, they put even more burden on my shoulders.

    Were they perhaps all Liberals (i.e. less intelligent?). Apparently that's one theory.
    Somehow I don't believe the statement above, although true, can be extrapolated to make blanket statements, and still carry a certain amount of credibility.

  • Homeowner · Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN · Member since 2009 · 23 posts · 4 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Originally posted by Chris Pelach:
    I love threads in which people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything argue about anything and everything.

    How can you be certain to identify "people who aren't ever going to rise up and do anything about anything "? I'd like to be able to do that myself.


    It really is a gift. If I could explain it I would have an e-book, a boot camp, and a mentor program.
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