Health Care Reform Yes or No?
Real Estate Investor · brighton, MI · Member since 2009 · 56 posts · 12 votes
Should we refom health care? Do we leave thing the way they are? Do we pay $800 co-pay per month and then bail out banks? Are we listening to our president or do we disagree just to disagree? Please share how you feel.
"...When there was a fire, all private insurance companies would send their fire crews to see if it was their customer and those that were other companies fire crews would have to get out of the way of the company who was the fire crew for that customer..."
Well, thanks for the history lesson. Actually, in some towns if you hadn't paid a seperate "fire tax" they wouldn't show up at all. In any event, you can continue to hold on to your ideological trappings while the system burns (sorry, couldn't help myself) or, you can join the rest of the civilized world in the 21st century in acknowledging that government involvment is REQUIRED in making health care benefits available to most of us. The notion that you can leave the care of the sick in the hands of for profit health care insurance companies is just, well, nuts. It's a bit like the Medieval notion that the world was flat. You can say it, you can believe it, you can pray that it is so, but the Earth will still NOT be flat.
I confess, I like most services I get from my government. They're not perfect, but who is? I took a shower this morning and made my coffee with water treated by the government and piped to my front door. I didn't worry about drinking it either. I flushed the toilet and they are processing that, as we work. Here in Chicago where I live, if I get sick the city will send an ambulance and EMT's to take me to the hospital (and they have). If the house is on fire, they'll send firefighters. If one of our local freaks tries to break in, the police will come and not inquire as to my home owner's insurance. At the federal level, our soldiers, sailors and Marines are protecting me and, I think, do a pretty good job for a bunch of federal employees. I know most conservatives might think they'd be better off with a .45 and a posse, but I like the military.
So, do nothing, hold on to your values. It won't belong before the system totally implodes. Then the politicians of both parties can all look around and wonder what happened. Naturally, one will blame the other, but there'll be plenty of blame to go around. In the meantime, they'll continue to enjoy tax payer funded government health care. Why America is afraid of tackling this issue is both sad and disconcerting. But, in the near term this will all come home to roost.
I have never understood why the treatment of disease or relief for the suffering should be tied to a specific economic therory, in this case capitalism. I don't know why treatment should mean a profit for some, care for some and nothing for many. Two hundred years ago, if you did not purchase private fire insurance (or could not afford it) and displayed a permit, the town fire department let your house burn down. We can't imagine that today.
For all of you clinging to your personal POLITICAL theory, please show me the word "capitalism" anywhere in the constitution or the Declaration of Independence. (Hint: Don't bother.)
I can't imagine putting treatment for an illness in the same catagory with a TV.
Oh, one more thing. (I don't mean to take up too much space.) You're going to have to do something about this hodge-podge of competing insurance delivery systems and soon, so you may as well get to it.
You've got private, for profit risked based insurance that cherry picks their clients and their risk. Then you've got Medicaid, VA and Medicare, all government run, as well as government programs for millions of politicians and government workers. None of them with much control and running wild.
Starting next year, the first of millions of boomers will bloat the rolls of Medicare over the next ten years. (I'm one of them.)
Seniors, for the most part, can't get private, for profit policies, even if they wanted them and could pay. They are cut out of the system, by the system. This is the largest, single, expanding sytem of health care in the country, government or private. Now, I don't like irritating my conservative friends, but you can't stick your heads in the sand on this for long. All your Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin ranting and photo opps at these silly town hall meetings won't solve the problem. They make you feel better and you can all give a round of applause to the fat lady mocking Nancy Pelosi, but she's the one whose health is probably the worst, and who will need care the soonest. If you all think the seniors will EVER stand for your cutting back Medicare, you've not learned your lesson from last November. These people vote in droves.
It's time to stop the shouting and those silly Nazi signs and get down to work. We are America. We can handle this.
You think that's a better use of your tax dollars than paying the health care costs of the woman who works two jobs, 12 hours a day, just to make ends meet?
You have it backwards...we should be rewarding hard work, not laziness...
"...When there was a fire, all private insurance companies would send their fire crews to see if it was their customer and those that were other companies fire crews would have to get out of the way of the company who was the fire crew for that customer..."
Well, thanks for the history lesson. Actually, in some towns if you hadn't paid a seperate "fire tax" they wouldn't show up at all. In any event, you can continue to hold on to your ideological trappings while the system burns (sorry, couldn't help myself) or, you can join the rest of the civilized world in the 21st century in acknowledging that government involvment is REQUIRED in making health care benefits available to most of us. The notion that you can leave the care of the sick in the hands of for profit health care insurance companies is just, well, nuts. It's a bit like the Medieval notion that the world was flat. You can say it, you can believe it, you can pray that it is so, but the Earth will still NOT be flat.
I confess, I like most services I get from my government. They're not perfect, but who is? I took a shower this morning and made my coffee with water treated by the government and piped to my front door. I didn't worry about drinking it either. I flushed the toilet and they are processing that, as we work. Here in Chicago where I live, if I get sick the city will send an ambulance and EMT's to take me to the hospital (and they have). If the house is on fire, they'll send firefighters. If one of our local freaks tries to break in, the police will come and not inquire as to my home owner's insurance. At the federal level, our soldiers, sailors and Marines are protecting me and, I think, do a pretty good job for a bunch of federal employees. I know most conservatives might think they'd be better off with a .45 and a posse, but I like the military.
So, do nothing, hold on to your values. It won't belong before the system totally implodes. Then the politicians of both parties can all look around and wonder what happened. Naturally, one will blame the other, but there'll be plenty of blame to go around. In the meantime, they'll continue to enjoy tax payer funded government health care. Why America is afraid of tackling this issue is both sad and disconcerting. But, in the near term this will all come home to roost.
I know I'm going to piss some people off with this, but why stop now I guess. Amidst all this no one has thought of the recent story of Natasha Richardson. A helicpoter medivac would have saved her life. Her ER doctor admitted to this. How much would Liam Neeson have paid for that helicopter? How much would you have paid for it? Want to know why it couldn't be done? Canada's social healthcare system didn't have it and would not provide it as an option.
Our system's not perfect, but this is America and you have the option to become rich and make enough money to buy care above the average. In socialized healthcare, it doesn't matter if you're willing to spend 10 million to save a loved one - you're getting the lowest common denominator of care by the cheapest government bidder.
Now you know why so many people get annoyed trying to argue with you...
And let's not forget that when Congressmen were asked if they are willing to give up the governmental insurance they have now, in favor of what they want us all to have, they all said no.
If they wont accept it then why should we?
Who said they "want us all to have" the same thing? Nobody is suggesting that they will take away the private healthcare options that you have now...if you think your current plan is better than the government-sponsored one, then keep yours.
I find it hard to debate on legislation when it's clear the other party hasn't even read it...stop being lazy and do some research, please...
That would be President Obama himself. "Maybe your better off not having the surgery but taking the painkiller."
Maybe it our decision what we do with our bodies Jason! I seem to recall that being a fundamental ideology of a certain "Right to Die" thread that every liberal here is falling over themselves to show their support for.
I say we Democrats give up. The republiscams did nothing on this when they were in charge of both Congress and the White House, but now that the President is taking serious run at this, they have ALL the answers. The President has pursued this silly bi-partisan thing to the point that no one's happy. Well, you can't please everybody.
So I say we toss this one over to the conservatives and let them do as they please. No more arguing. No more pointless shouting at these useless town hall photo opps. I say let the conservatives show us all how to really solve these kinds of problems. They can have all the credit and take all the blame even if their decision is to do nothing at all.
I would be willing to bet, however, that they fall flat over the next few years. Give them enough ideological rope and they'll not only hang themselves but they'll probably like it. Then we liberal Democrats can step over their inconsequential, lifeless party and put through the single payer system we ought to have now.
So, I am officially giving up. Whatever you conservative capitalists want is fine with me. I don't think I'll have long to wait.
"...OK Hugh. You live in Chicago. You go ahead and trust your health to John Stroeger hospital. Have a ball. John Stroeger himself, when he needed emergency care, would not go to the hospital he was named after. Instead he had himself taken to a privatem, expensive northside hospital. .."
OK Tim, you pontificating know-it-all, I'm ticked.
Two years ago I WAS treated at Stroger Hospital. My insurance reached it's limits and I had no where else to go. The care was fantastic! Over nine months and two hospitalizations they saved my left leg from an amputation due to diabetes. They also gave me the $600 a month in prescriptions I could no longer afford to cover my heart disease. I wouldn't be alive without them, and that is NO exaggeration.
Frankly, I don't give a fat rat's thing what happened to John Stroger, but I can tell you I now have coverage through I-CHIP and I would GLADLY return to Stroger Hospital and their staff any day. They were caring and respectful and very, very good. If you were to visit Stroger you would see what a disaster our "system" has become, however. Their people and resources are strained to the limit and they still perform beautifully.
Frankly, on this point, you don't know what you're talking about.
So, why didn't they charter a private Medevac helicopter service!?!? They're widely available in Canada as a private option!
Isn't that what you support...private health care options? Well, that's what they have...you should be thrilled with the Canadian system...
It seems to prove my point...not yours...way to go, Tim...
Back to point:
Health Care Reform Yes or No? No. (Assuming a socialist/fascist style of reform)
Health Care Reform Yes or No? Yes
(Assuming free market reform, no government involvement whatsoever)
I take my views from the most honest man in congress, a defender of the constitution, Ron Paul, who also happens to be a doctor himself.
Please watch and behold common sense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqR-QzJUnvg
Ditto on that...
If you're not going to ensure that everyone has coverage, at least ensure that coverage is affordable and real *insurance* is available.
It absolutely amazes me that so many people don't understand how bad our current healthcare system is...my guess is that most of those people have never had a major medical problem where they had to rely on their insurance company to do the right thing for the patient...