Religious Question

Religious Question

J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

Tim asked in another thread that I start a new thread on this topic, and while I don't see much value in discussion religion on an Internet forum, I'll at least continue this discussion from the other thread with a religious question for Tim...

[Note that I've put this in the Political Talk section, as it's likely to be one of those similar divisive topics... :)

Also note that I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm doing my best to write this from a non-judgmental and purely inquisitive perspective. If you are insulted by religious questions, please feel free to stop reading now.]

Okay, here's my question for Tim (and anyone else that's interested in answering)...

There have been thousands of religions throughout history, and one of the things that many of them have in common is the belief that there is a supreme being that created and controls everything. Some religions believe there are lots of things supreme beings (Greeks believed in hundreds of Gods).

I don't want to debate whether there is a supreme being or not...I can understand why people feel the need to believe in something bigger than themselves...it gives a sense of purpose, hope, and direction.

What I want to better understand is why people believe in their particular god and their particular history of the universe as opposed to the other thousands of gods and other thousands of of stories of these gods?

For example, as someone who is not religious, hearing the story of the Bible, the story of the Book of Mormon, the story of the Koran, the stories of the Greeks and the Romans and their gods, the story of Scientology, etc, they all sound pretty much equally believable (or unbelievable, depending on your perspective).

Hearing about 72 virgins awaiting martyrs in heaven sounds no more or less far-fetched than hearing about the fiery pits of hell. And it's all about the same as hearing about the comet Hale-Bopp coming to take Heaven's Gate believers away to the stars.

As far as I can tell, there's no evidence that suggests the Roman God of the Sun is any more or less real that than the Judeo-Christian God, and I'm quite certain that a few thousand years ago, the belief in the Sun God was just as fervent as today's belief in a Christian God. And they had just as much evidence back then that a god (or more than one) exists as we do today.

So, if you're religious, why do you believe your religion has the correct interpretation of historical events and the correct interpretation of the supreme being versus the other thousands of religions and cults throughout history?

I've heard people say, "I have no proof, it's just my belief."

While that's absolutely fine, I don't understand how that person can ever say that another religion "has it wrong." They would have to admit that maybe the Greeks were right; maybe the Muslims are right; maybe the Scientologists are right; and that quantitatively (i.e., taking your beliefs out of it), there's JUST AS MUCH CHANCE that other religions are right as yours is.

So, I guess my question boils down to:

What makes you believe that your religious belief system "holds more water" than any others, outside of the fact that yours may (or may not) have more followers and/or a better propaganda system?

And, if on the off chance, your response is, "It's just my belief, my faith, and that's all there is to it," then my follow-up question is:

Is there any other area of your life (besides religion) where you have an unflappable belief in something, and where you'd throw out all evidence and rationale in lieu of your faith and belief.

Again, not trying to offend...just genuinely curious...

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Real Estate Investor · East Aurora, NY · Member since 2009 · 70 posts · 22 votes
17y

Some recommended reading - "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Enough-Faith-Atheist/dp/1581345615/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252600154&sr=1-1

The authors develop a persuasive case starting with how the Big Bang makes the case for a creator, why monotheism is the only logical theistic belief and how the New Testament can be verified.

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  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by John Strobel:
    Tell you what..believe in yourself first.


    Sociopaths believe in themselves first.
  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by John Strobel:
    Tell you what..believe in yourself first.


    Sociopaths believe in themselves first.


    So do people with confidence in themselves and their abilities...

    I imagine those people tend to be a lot more happy and successful than those who don't...

    In fact, if you don't believe in yourself, no one else will...
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    The key word is "first" and the point is that "believing in yourself first" in the context of religion is useless. Religion is about achieving a standard higher than one's self. If your self is the first and foremost thing in your mind, screw religion of any sort. It will greatly disappoint you.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    The key word is "first" and the point is that "believing in yourself first" in the context of religion is useless.

    Agreed. Believing in yourself first should be done in the context of life in general, not religion...



    Agreed with that as well.
  • Real Estate Consultant · Atenas, Alajuela · Member since 2009 · 33 posts · 2 votes
    16y

    This ones actually pretty easy. You want or need a god? All you have to do is look up. In my book the only god there is is the Universe itself. You want something a little closer to home, than the planet Earth fits the bill. There is certainly no old man in flowing robes calling the shots, or any other "supreme god" .

    This may offend some but much of the worlds denizens that believe in such nonsense are quite simply suffering from "Mass Delusion".

    We as a species are very impressionable. Lemmings one might say. The magic of the Universe is all around us. Humans are made of the same building blocks that permeate the Universe.

    I am a man of Science but even that view is flawed because we can only interpret what we perceive. Our perceptions are limited by our own understanding and that understanding is in it's infancy.

    I recommend to everyone to read the book "Biocentrism" if you want to come as close to understanding why things are the way they are.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Isham Collier:

    I recommend to everyone to read the book "Biocentrism" if you want to come as close to understanding why things are the way they are.


    Clearly, people who are very religious see the world very differently than others, and that others can't quite grasp what the religious person is seeing/feeling.

    Likewise, in my experience, those who truly understand science and basic laws that govern the world around them (a very small % of the population) see the world completely differently than those who don't.

    I have accepted that most people probably can't see the world the way I can, and likewise I can't see the world the way a truly religious person can.

    Not sure there's anything that can change that...

  • Investor · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2008 · 207 posts · 33 votes
    16y

    One thing is for sure, in our physical world, "Spirit Matters!"
    The trinity of man is Spirit, mind or soul- mind and emotions and physical, or body.
    I think Einstein said the greatest form of understanding is revelation.
    Jesus said in the Gospels that God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship him in Spirit and Truth. Jesus also said that unless Jesus Chooses to reveal Himself and the Father, man cannot accept God. In other words, man can only humbly accept the Truth of God, which is outside of himself. Man cannot receive the grace of God by intellectualizing or soul searching, it must be received through God's Spirit.
    Jesus said that unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. To piggyback on another post, He also said that The Kingdom of Heaven is within you!

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Very sad.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    This ones actually pretty easy. You want or need a god? All you have to do is look up. In my book the only god there is is the Universe itself. You want something a little closer to home, than the planet Earth fits the bill. There is certainly no old man in flowing robes calling the shots, or any other "supreme god" .

    This may offend some but much of the worlds denizens that believe in such nonsense are quite simply suffering from "Mass Delusion".


    Very sad.


    Come on, Mike...now that we've determined that you're pretty liberal (as you clarified for us in the other threads), I would think you'd be more tolerant to those that have different beliefs than you do...
  • Wholesaler · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 659 votes
    16y

    Mike tolerant of others beliefs . . .?

    I think I'm in the wrong forum. :crazed:

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Actually, yes! I am extremely tolerant of others' beliefs. For example, on the gay issue (that seems to consume J. S.), I am 100% supportive of the rights of gays to do whatever they like in the privacy of their homes. What I am not supportive of is gays having EXTRA rights that the rest of us don't have. For example, I am 100% supportive of gays being able to marry someone of the opposite sex (like the rest of us). I am 100% against ANYONE being able to change the very definition of marriage.

    Mike

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y

    What I am not supportive of is gays having EXTRA rights that the rest of us don't have.


    Mike -

    That makes perfect sense.

    Of course, based on this, I assume you'd be okay assuming gays DIDN'T HAVE ANY EXTRA RIGHTS that you don't have, right?

    Let me explain how our legislative system works...

    If same-sex marriage were legal, YOU WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT to marry someone of the same sex...

    Yup, you'd have THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS as gay people...they wouldn't have any rights you don't have!

    So, now that you understand that nobody would have any extra rights that you don't have, you're okay with it?

    Or do you now have ANOTHER excuse to spew your hatred?

  • Wholesaler · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 369 posts · 75 votes
    16y

    First of all the only good religion is as follows,
    "Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you." James 1:27

    Main Entry: re·li·gion
    Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
    Date: 13th century
    1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
    2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
    3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
    4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
    — re·li·gion·less adjective

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