Are the rich the "greedy" ones?

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Are the rich the "greedy" ones?

Annette Hibbler
Real Estate Consultant · Brighton, MI · Member since 2013 · 607 posts · 251 votes

I'm reading a book by Robert Kyosaki entitled, "Why A Students Work For C Students and B Students Work For the Government". I agree with most of his views of our public school system, the dangers of an entitlement society and financial ignorance.

He also touches on the subject of greed and it made me ponder. Popular opinion is that the rich are greedy and should be taxed to the hilt. With help from politicians, this idea has been methodically promoted as a reason behind higher taxes. But who ultimately gets the brunt for higher taxes? Anyway, that another forum topic...

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, there's little doubt that our current government is harvesting a large healthy crop of young adults with a solid "entitlement" mentality. The view that the "government should take care of me" is a growing movement. There is a growing number of "unemployed" who choose not to work and sit back and collect government handouts. They believe in getting something for nothing and that rich somehow "owe them". Their view is often that the rich are greedy crooks.

As investors, otherwise known as capitalists, we know the value of giving housing & commercial space for small business owners and retailer. We are giving first. Is it wrong for us to benefit from this? I would venture that many would accuse us of taking advantage of others. But aren't those who simply "choose not to work" and instead live off the government taking advantage of every single employee in the shrinking workforce and business owner who is forced to fund into that entitlement program? Are they providing anything to society or just taking from society?

Capitalists choose to make opportunities, finding a demand and the meeting it. They meet the needs of others in the form of housing and employment which ultimately benefits them financially. Is that greed? Through innovation, new products, supermarkets, transportation systems, housing, medical breakthroughs, hospitals, etc., they enrich our lives, give us jobs and food and many services we take for granted. Is that greed?

DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!

Simply stated, a capitalist knows he must give to society first in order to benefit. How is that greedy? Many family members I talk to regarding this issue don't stop to consider what would happen if the rich just packed up and left, which they are doing in growing numbers. With them go the companies, hotels, etc. which employ many. So who is hurting who?

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I totally respect everyone's opinion and do not want this to turn into a political discussion, please.

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Bill Gulley
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
13y

Not too much mentioned about corporate welfare, more money is lost there than food stamps and housing subsidies.

Education is a huge problem.

Most people want to work, I don't believe there are really that many real takers. I've worked with over a thousand of Sec 8 and public housing types, they want to work or do. There are reasons they don't or can't, often has to do with mental issues, personality disorders that also leads to unacceptable attitudes to those who do carry the water.

Saying someone is able bodied is misleading as you can't see personality disorders that can be hidden easily during short meetings with someone. Resentment is on both sides.

The game has turned into a war and the middle class is losing according to Warren Buffett....the political propaganda is all about "those people" as a means to save money keeping your eye off corporate welfare.....look at the farm bill!

Now, I can solve many of our problems, but no one is willing to make me King! That's about what it would take, a complete overhaul of our system. :)

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  • Ben R.
    Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2013 · 187 posts · 23 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Dawn Anastasi:

    You have the choice to take college classes, learn online, and possibly pursue another career besides real estate. These people will never have that ability unless they change.

    What if they want to go on vacation to Thailand, or eat out at a fancy restaurant? Or attend a play or dinner theater? Their lifestyle does not afford them the freedom to do so.

    Equal privileges, choices and opportunities are not rights granted by the Constitution or by God. I would like to cruise the world on a 150' yacht, but I don't have that choice. The difference between me and most of the rest of mankind is, 1- I recognize that fact and 2- I don't begrudge those who are lucky enough to have that opportunity...

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  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben R.:

    You can make friends with someone who does have a 150' yacht.

    Podcast Guest on Show #29
    0Reply
  • Tinotenda Arigurinu
    Real Estate Investor in Training · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2011 · 54 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    I think its worth noting how " the rich" get rich innovation , creating employment, productivity and adding value i believe are great ways to create wealth while also positively influencing the community. Corruption, violence and trickery to create wealth not so much.

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  • Tinotenda Arigurinu
    Real Estate Investor in Training · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2011 · 54 posts · 10 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Rob K:

    As far as people having baby after baby that they can't afford, I see it all the time. In one neighborhood where I have a bunch of houses on Section 8, it's horrible. They will have a baby and then get more money each month and a bigger house. The people are so lazy that they depend on the government in every aspect of their lives - food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc. They sleep til noon and refuse to work. One of my tenants even got the state to put a new transmission in her car. Somehow, they always have their hair and nails "did", the heat is set at 80 in the winter, and there are DVD's and fast food wrappers everywhere. How is this fair?
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  • Tinotenda Arigurinu
    Real Estate Investor in Training · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2011 · 54 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    @rob i worked doing tax prep for a well known franchise once, what you are saying is very true the reality i saw of people earning 15 000 usd a year and getting 8 000 in refunds is really unsettling,its by no means fair i would point out that i still however prefer the life that i have mapped out for myself and would rather be a productive member of my community and have the ability to earn my money than have a government cap on it.

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  • Kaz P.
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:
    Originally posted by Kaz Phillips:
    Robert Kyosaki talked about how he built a cash rich company. He made interesting points yet so true about the mentality of some. He told about a colleague or someone asked him why he had 7 cars. Why would a person need 7 cars is what the person said. He replied "I like my cars" I work hard for my cars...in so many words.
    Case in point, why would that bother someone to the point where it startles them or cause ill feelings or jealousy? Most of the greed comes from poor people and their perception of wealth. Some people want to get paid 10 bucks but want to do 1 dollar worth of work. That goes with big money as well.

    Should we really be taking lesson in greed from Robert Kyosaki?

    Last year, he lost a $24M lawsuit to the Learning Annex -- they helped him get famous and once he did, he decided he didn't want to pay them for their work. Instead of paying the $24M (he's worth an estimated $80M), he declared bankruptcy in the company that was sued, thereby protecting himself from having to give up any of his personal wealth.

    While what he did was completely legal, it's not hard to argue that it was also completely unethical (not living up to your contracts with the company who helped make you wealthy). I'm pretty sure this would also qualify as extremely greedy.

    So, when he talks about people who want to get paid $10 to do $1 work of work, remember that he's the guy who was happy to do $10 worth of work, but cheated others out of their share to keep the full $10...

     @J Scott Despite the outcome of Kyosaki's mistakes as an investor, I think one could learn something from that lesson that you spoke about alone. I did....however, Whether I agree with what he did or not. Somewhere in the world someone richer than he and more knowledgeable from their experience could teach him how he could of approached that differently. You know, poor is a mentality. It creates a ceiling on perspective in a lot of cases. Sometimes somethings can't be helped. That was my point about Occupy Wallstreet.

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  • Bruce Olsen
    Lender · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 74 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    Here's some food for thought...

    Industrial robots are already available for about $20,000 each that can work 24x7 for about 3-4 years before needing replacement. They're essentially disposable, and are perfectly capable of taking over millions of lower-level jobs. Think about the effect on society if, say, half of the 4 million fast food workers were fired. Or half of the 4 million retail workers.

    These people aren't welfare moms, these are breadwinners. Taxpayers. Americans like you and me.

    And that's not an ideological statement, it's just a fact.

    Enormous advances in computer understanding and artificial intelligence are raising the specter of job loss that will easily outpace the 8.8 million jobs lost during the Great Recession.

    These jobs will never return. Ever.

    What about retraining?

    It can't help. Increasingly complex jobs will become automated. For example, all the key technology to replace a big chunk of the 1.7 million long-haul truck drivers exists today (in Google's self-driving cars). And that's only one small example of the kind of work most of us assume will always be reserved exclusively for people.

    But productivity always creates new jobs!

    In the past, productivity gains famously led to new, previously unimagined jobs, but this won't continue indefinitely. As computers continue to get smarter they will be able to take over more and more of the jobs that people previously had to do. Not all, of course (unless you believe that Skynet is coming) but the situation will not improve over time.

    And the productivity gains will be realized only by business owners and an ever-smaller circle of employees.

    A lot of people will be fired. Friends. Neighbors. Family.

    And no matter what you may believe, I don't think you want 5 or 10 million additional unemployed and hopeless parents wandering around the country, desperate to feed their children.

    I know I don't.

    In their position I'd stop at nothing, and I know every single parent among you would do the same.

    Self-defense? It doesn't matter how you feel about guns: who can afford enough armament to defend their own family indefinitely if it comes to that? How likely is that to happen? I don't know, but consider what might have happened during the Depression if firearms were as readily available as they are today.

    So we're going to have to figure out, as a society, what we want to do about that degree of unemployment. We'll need to decide how these people can afford to buy the things that keep the economy moving even though they may be permanently unemployed.

    The answers won't come by clinging to our ideologies (of "liberal" or "conservative" or "libertarian" or "Tea Party"). Or by calling each other names (such as "liberal" or "conservative" or "libertarian" or "Tea Party"). Or by waiting for today's politicians to address it.

    So let's just stipulate that all rich people are greedy, and everyone on welfare is a cheat, so we can have a serious discussion about a serious problem.

    Because the harder it becomes to find people to buy or rent the properties we invest in, the lower asset prices will become. Anyone but the hugest investors will suffer along with the unemployed.

    And personally, I'm not about to lose my business to someone simply because they're rich—greedy or not ;-)

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Olsen:

    Here's some food for thought...

    Industrial robots are already available for about $20,000 each that can work 24x7 for about 3-4 years before needing replacement. They're essentially disposable, and are perfectly capable of taking over millions of lower-level jobs. Think about the effect on society if, say, half of the 4 million fast food workers were fired. Or half of the 4 million retail workers.

    There is a well known fast food restaurant chain which is currently experimenting with an "automated chef" and order counter.   The objective is to take a "restaurant" from a shift staff of 8-12 employees to just 2-3.   The article I read indicated they plan to pilot this new "restaurant" in the Alberta Oil patch (where their employees are presently paid $18 - $23 per hour).

    That technology existed 150 years ago ... it was called trains ;-)

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  • Damien C.
    Investor · MA · Member since 2014 · 51 posts · 17 votes
    11y

    I understand why people are bummed out about taxes. But I don't understand why people think that all their tax dollars are going to welfare for the undeserving. Tax revenues pay for social security, defense, medicare, debt interest, welfare, infrastructure, education, etc. The 10% or so of the total revenue that goes to welfare is not given only to undeserving people. Some recipients are working poor--i.e., they work but their skills or life circumstances are such that they cannot earn a living wage. Some recipients cannot work due to actual disability. And then, of course, some people do scam the system. Since welfare is a relatively small slice of the revenue pie, and since not all welfare recipients are scammers, I would argue that there is a disproportionate emphasis placed on the welfare issue. Dollars are wasted on the fringes of all programs. That's the larger problem. Ideally, only deserving people should receive welfare benefits. But even if that ideal was realized, I suspect the overall impact would be somewhat marginal (assuming nothing else changed).  

    To the question of "are the rich the greedy ones?" (per the title of this thread), it seems to me that greed touches all classes. I recently read the Millionaire Real Estate Investor, and at the end of the book, Keller talks about how part of the joy of creating abundant wealth is that it actually frees up the investor to be truly generous. The rich have the resources to give to their families, to their friends, to charities, and to society as a whole. 

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  • Guy Gimenez
    Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Some rich are greedy...many poor are greedy.  The poor are not my enemies as I realize they are often broke in mind and spirit as well as in finances. I don't loathe them, I pity them for their lack of initiative and desire to seek a better life. The world has had poor people from the beginning of time just as there have been rich since the beginning. That will not change...it is a statistical impossibility.  

    When more than half the population is on some form of government entitlement, that is a problem...and that problem is clearly a form of modern day slavery with the master being the government. The master has the power to punish the producers by taking the fruits of their labor so the master can give it to its slaves and keep them content with the drug of choice...entitlements. They master doesn't want inspired slaves...the want obedient slaves and when every aspect of your life depends on the master for survival (medicare, medicaid, social security, housing assistance, food assistance, free school breakfasts/lunch/dinner, etc) you will indeed be obedient. 

    This is not a government rant...it's merely a middle aged man who has seen more than most and has been on both sides of the rich/poor equation. The poor don't help the poor. It's the wealthy who pay the taxes and give the most to charities so they should, for the most part, be celebrated...not vilified.

    I have been broke and I didn't like it so I changed my situation. I offer no apologies to anyone for making a good living finding a need and filling it by using talents I earned on my own without government assistance.  That is capitalism in its purest form. 

    I love making money because I can give more money to Make A Wish, my favorite charity. And the more I give, the better I feel about my life and the changes I'm able to make in other peoples lives.

    Yes, the gap between the rich and poor is widening but that must be expected when an obtrusive government punishes those who wish get rich and rewards those who prefer to remain poor. 

    I am saddened by what I have seen happen to this country but I know there will be an emerging country not far away inhabited by an inspired populace that wants desperately to be what the U.S. once was.  And the rich will certainly be part of that new country since this country seems to have little appreciation for them anymore.

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  • Becky Davis
    Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    I haven't found greed, intelligence, or hard work to be a trait of any one economic class. I have met many people living on welfare with no interest in getting off, trading food stamps for money to purchase cigarettes. I have met wealthy individuals that, when they go through a down turn, get their hair done on credit. I have also met hard working people who are poor and others who are wealthy and many in between.

    What I have found to be more common to the wealthy, is financial education. As this is not taught in grade school, it most often comes from parents. I grew up hearing my parents talk about their mortgage, their rental properties, and investments. Many people do not have that advantage. They can learn, yes, but having the foundation is a huge leap ahead.

    Read The Seven Sins of Wall Street for a good look at what the financial system can do to hard working individuals without that understanding.

    Side note: someone mentioned Naked Economics. The End of Normal is an absolute must-read.

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  • Joshua Chen
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 27 votes
    11y

    hm.. it's like asking if you can be greedy for wanting to do a lot of work. You do reap the profits from work you do, but I'm not sure if that's "greedy," because you're also working for it. It could be greedy if you *only* do it because you want the profits and you don't care at all about the work you do.

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  • Laniece Miller
    Bolingbrook, IL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    I agree that working to build wealth in and of itself is not 'greedy', it depends on how one uses it.  I also agree that our current system is flawed in the 'wealth distribution' any way you cut it.

    Okay, librarian coming out,  

    @Brandon mentioned Naked Economics by Charles Wheelan

    @Becky Davis mentioned End of Normal by James Gailbraith,  and Seven Sins of Wall Street by Bob Ivry

    Sorry, I saw a reference question and couldn't help answering it.

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