Killing it by turning crack dens into safe housing

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Killing it by turning crack dens into safe housing

John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes

I’d like to share my strategies here to help others make money and turn the worst war zone, vacant areas into safe spots for families to live.

I’m by no means the only one doing it. It’s just hard to find people talking about it. 

I think if we talked about it more more people would take the risk and the worst crime areas could turn very quickly into homes.

Some of them aren’t going to be pretty. 

Some are pretty simple.

Welcome all to advise and share here.....

Especially those who have successfully taken stuff from war zone to secure housing.

So I’ll start it out.

Buy the worst house in whatever area your going to purchase. It might be useful to ask the cops what house they goto most often in the city.

Try to buy at least half a block. Getting a corner with 100’ in each direction is helpful.

See a bodega? Get that too.   Don’t let a single commercial or residential property within 500’ get sold to someone other then you or some one you can trust that will assist you.

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Michael Ealy
Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @John Hickey:

I’d like to share my strategies here to help others make money and turn the worst war zone, vacant areas into safe spots for families to live.

I’m by no means the only one doing it. It’s just hard to find people talking about it. 

I think if we talked about it more more people would take the risk and the worst crime areas could turn very quickly into homes.

Some of them aren’t going to be pretty. 

Some are pretty simple.

Welcome all to advise and share here.....

Especially those who have successfully taken stuff from war zone to secure housing.

So I’ll start it out.

Buy the worst house in whatever area your going to purchase. It might be useful to ask the cops what house they goto most often in the city.

Try to buy at least half a block. Getting a corner with 100’ in each direction is helpful.

See a bodega? Get that too.   Don’t let a single commercial or residential property within 500’ get sold to someone other then you or some one you can trust that will assist you.

 Good strategy and kudos to you for having the guts to do it. Not many real estate investors, and specially newbies can do what you do.

Having said that, buying in the worst neighborhood by buying the whole block can be very profitable. One deal I did was in Avondale area of Cincinnati. If you do your research, Avondale has one of the highest crime rate in Cincinnati. I got 30 units - townhomes for only $450,000 - and only 3 were occupied. They were paying $300/month. You can research the address - 3561 Eden Ave, Cincinnati.

Got everyone out and renovated the units (it's still going on). When I did my estimate, I projected the rents can be increased to $850/month. But I made a mistake.

It was way lower than my projections. My leasing agent was able to lease it for $1,250/month. And there was a waiting list. My partner and I will make $2 MILLION by the time we sell it or if we decide NOT to sell and just refi, we'll get $1M cash on top of our initial capital and keep it for cashflow.

Here are the pictures: (I will dig up the before and post a before and after in a different post)

Here's a video: 

If you ask the folks here on BP who lives in Cincinnati if they will buy in Avondale, 99% will say "NO way!" That's why 99% will never make $2M on one deal. Again, not a strategy for a newbie BUT, doing this improves neighborhoods and the real estate developers and investors who are willing to do this, can get rewarded handsomely.

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  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Jared Michael Rollins

    Both and also buy/hold/fix the street problems and sell when I’m low on cash.  

    Detailed post on some deals.

    I talk about a lot of what I’ve been developing above...

    The strategy I detail here has almost bankrupted me a few times so I’m learning to sometimes sit with a property then groom it for sale while I work on the outside problems.  Plus fixing the street provide way more value add then working on the inside.  

    So then you can refi easier.  

    1Reply
  • Michael King
    Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
    7y

    Excuse me? Not sure I understand exactly what you mean, but it seems to me Mr. Big Shot, that you are suggesting we leave the website? Can't really tell since your poor English or typing skills are making me question almost every sentence you write. 

    And if you knew anything about Ferguson, MO, maybe you'd understand our light hearted side conversation. 

    So Mr. Big Shot, please continue to tell us how great you are. 

    1Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Michael King:
    Originally posted by @John Hickey:

    @Ryan Proffit 

    @Michael King

    This is a forum for investors.  Sounds like you guys don’t do what we.  No need for you too move on but if you do I wouldn’t mind.  

    Excuse me? Not sure I understand exactly what you mean, but it seems to me Mr. Big Shot, that you are suggesting we leave the website? Can't really tell since your poor English or typing skills are making me question almost every sentence you write. 

    And if you knew anything about Ferguson, MO, maybe you'd understand our light hearted side conversation. 

    So Mr. Big Shot, please continue to tell us how great you are. 

    Hey Michael,

    Troll much?

    John has been gracious enough to spend countless hours detailing his work for the benefits of other with less experience. I have owned property and lived in war zones, John is 100% accurate with his writing and theories. I would gladly partner with a guy that works that hard and smart and then still finds time to share and compare.

    Either offer better solutions or case studies or say it's not for you and then please....at least mind your own business or like John said, leave the site, you won't be missed since you don't seem to add value.

    Nobody cares about cheap talk and so called witty side banter. People come to BP for exactly the posts that John is making.

    John keep it up!

    1Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:
    Originally posted by @Alan G.:

    @John Hickey John I love the strategy and am doing almost the same in my area just west of Philadelphia. I looked for a block with many board ups and foreclosures and bought all of them. Renovated everything now I control who lives there. Once the neighbors started seeing our nice homes they start fixing also.

    Doesn’t happen overnight since I’m buying 1 by 1 as they come up. Although I’m never selling. By controlling most of the tenants on a block I control who lives on the block.

    Love your idea.

    I find it kind of creepy that you claim twice that you "control who lives on the street". Well, if you are following fair housing laws, I don't see how you control who lives on your street. 

    How do you control who applies to rent your units? Or do you just pick and choose who you approve based on your personal biases?

    Hey Eric,

    Wow, where to start....first thank you for the typical hyper sensitive virtue signaling reading into his statement as "creepy"

    Let me start by asking you some fair housing questions:

    Are drug dealers a protected class?

    Are violent street gangs a protected class?

    Are illegal drug addicts a protected class?

    Is graffiti illegal?

    Is defecating in public on the sidewalk illegal?

    Is loitering with the intent to sell drugs or solicit prostitution  illegal?

    Is petty theft illegal?

    Just "controlling" the block enough to keep the people that do that activity away is something most federal, state, and municipal governments would be re-elected for and probably get nobel peace prizes, too.


    I would be willing to bet skid row violates all kinds of fair housing laws. Fair housing laws are for protecting people against racism, sexism, ageism, religionism, genderism, disabilityism and any other "ism" that is morally wrong and common criteria for bigotry.....NOTHING, John has said implies or suggest violating any of those protected classes, or any fair housing laws....so if you feel "creepy" vibe, it's probably your problem and your better off keeping it to yourself!

    2Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y

    @John Hickey

    Hey John,

    Don't waste time with the haters and trolls. I really like this thread and always look forward to hearing about your progress and war stories. I have seen and lived in enough war zones to know that people like you make a huge positive impact in the places you invest and work.

    I can't think of a single thing you have said that I haven't personally seen work exactly as you described, or better yet some of the jewels that I hadn't thought about or seen yet.

    Lastly, if I was in your neck of the woods, I would make a point of trying to partner up with you! Keep being productive and making the world better, one block at a time.

    With much respect and admiration.

    1Reply
  • Michael King
    Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:

    @John Hickey

    Hey John,

    Don't waste time with the haters and trolls. I really like this thread and always look forward to hearing about your progress and war stories. I have seen and lived in enough war zones to know that people like you make a huge positive impact in the places you invest and work.

    I can't think of a single thing you have said that I haven't personally seen work exactly as you described, or better yet some of the jewels that I hadn't thought about or seen yet.

    Lastly, if I was in your neck of the woods, I would make a point of trying to partner up with you! Keep being productive and making the world better, one block at a time.

    With much respect and admiration.

     Bud, I'm not a hater, nor a troll. I came here to learn and I don't appreciate a cheap attempt by anyone on a soap box to bully me. You included. I meant no disrespect anywhere in my posts and got shouted down when discussing a neighborhood local to me that was on topic. If I've exceeded your tolerance for abuse, you can always trigger the 'abuse' link. 

    0Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Michael King:
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:

    @John Hickey

    Hey John,

    Don't waste time with the haters and trolls. I really like this thread and always look forward to hearing about your progress and war stories. I have seen and lived in enough war zones to know that people like you make a huge positive impact in the places you invest and work.

    I can't think of a single thing you have said that I haven't personally seen work exactly as you described, or better yet some of the jewels that I hadn't thought about or seen yet.

    Lastly, if I was in your neck of the woods, I would make a point of trying to partner up with you! Keep being productive and making the world better, one block at a time.

    With much respect and admiration.

     Bud, I'm not a hater, nor a troll. I came here to learn and I don't appreciate a cheap attempt by anyone on a soap box to bully me. You included. I meant no disrespect anywhere in my posts and got shouted down when discussing a neighborhood local to me that was on topic. If I've exceeded your tolerance for abuse, you can always trigger the 'abuse' link. 

     OK, I quoted the particular post that you made up above in one of my other responses directly to your exchange, that seemed to be condescending by calling John "...Mr. Big Shot...".

    If I misinterpreted your intentions, I would gladly apologize to you.

    I am not sure how or where I bullied you, but, I promise to work on being more sensitive when replying to your posts in the future.

    Have a good evening.

    0Reply
  • Michael King
    Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
    Originally posted by @Michael King:
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:

    @John Hickey

    Hey John,

    Don't waste time with the haters and trolls. I really like this thread and always look forward to hearing about your progress and war stories. I have seen and lived in enough war zones to know that people like you make a huge positive impact in the places you invest and work.

    I can't think of a single thing you have said that I haven't personally seen work exactly as you described, or better yet some of the jewels that I hadn't thought about or seen yet.

    Lastly, if I was in your neck of the woods, I would make a point of trying to partner up with you! Keep being productive and making the world better, one block at a time.

    With much respect and admiration.

     Bud, I'm not a hater, nor a troll. I came here to learn and I don't appreciate a cheap attempt by anyone on a soap box to bully me. You included. I meant no disrespect anywhere in my posts and got shouted down when discussing a neighborhood local to me that was on topic. If I've exceeded your tolerance for abuse, you can always trigger the 'abuse' link. 

     OK, I quoted the particular post that you made up above in one of my other responses directly to your exchange, that seemed to be condescending by calling John "...Mr. Big Shot...".

    If I misinterpreted your intentions, I would gladly apologize to you.

    I am not sure how or where I bullied you, but, I promise to work on being more sensitive when replying to your posts in the future.

    Have a good evening.

    Hmmm maybe 'Mr. Big Shot' was used erroneously and I back down from that. You don't need to be more sensitive with me. I'm here to learn, like you, and while I believe I have thick skin, I was surprised to find myself uninvited and labelled a troll. 

    Moving forward I'll be a little more careful with respect to the content of my comments.

    I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Have a great night.
     

    0Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Michael King you picked up on how bad my english is.  No argument there.  Nice work.  

    The typing I can work on, it’s not proofreading. Sometimes it’s because I’m in a hurry to make dinner...other times to wipe a butt. 

    I have three young kids and I take care of them my wife works. Other times it’s because I’m working and have to run.

    I type on the bowl and I’m a fireman.

    I’d have some use for your comments if I could print them on soft paper right now.

    The English? I got kicked out of school for too many fights at 13. I was working on my trade.

    You type pretty good. Good for you.  Everyone has to have something.  


    You go back and read your comments? You think your contributing here?  Silence or q work better.

    Ferguson? Yeah. That’s what I was talking about when I said making jokes about ppl getting killed   Rioting.  

    I never said you had to leave. Just said I wouldn’t mind. 

    In the meantime you’ve achieved one thing.  

    It doesn’t matter what you type after this I will ignore your comments.  Your buddy too.  

    This is a spot for people to learn about what the title of the post says. Your a distraction.  Now we wasted a bunch of space on this thread with this nonsense.

    My English sucks but I bet you understand it. As a peace offering I proofread this one.  

    3Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Eric M.undefined

    I think you weren’t directing your comments to me, but I did see them.  

    What we do is tough enough and it’s bard to get people to come here and talk about it. 

    BP puts up full names and the city your from some people could read this and track folks down.  

    I would lean away from suggesting someone is committing a federal crime without more evidence that they did.  

    Screening in these areas is one of the best tools a landlord has. That successful landlord above isn’t talking about race or religion the way I read it.  He’s talking about morals.  

    When I’m cleaning up areas like that I’m not trying to change the racial makeup of the block.

     That would be insane.  

    That wouldn’t last. It’s way easier to use what ever ppl live nearby already and are looking for better housing.  

     You can change a block by taking away the druggies, prostriitues etc. given. That’s a fact. 

    I would not suggest that anyone try to bring in a new group.  Juts make sure who you bring ain’t a criminal enterprise, a junkie looking to cut down on copping commute. And your good.  Any good tenant will do.  

    Side note.  I don’t do credit checks.  None of my tenants would pass.  And I do section 8.  I have a good relation ship with them and they know I have nice apts, I feel like sometimes they send me good tenants and sometimes they don’t. I screen either way.  

    3Reply
  • Viron Hale
    Buffalo, NY · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    How do you obtain financing for these properties @John Hickey?

    Do you turn these properties into rentals or do you sell based on the market?

    1Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Viron Hale hard money and my money.  A few investors. That’s one of the things I need to work on. Rates around 10 right now that can suck the wind out of you after 2 years.  That was my turn around time on the last one.  

    Starts to wear you down. So if would see if you could find cheaper money.  

    I had a bank lined up to take me out of the hard money but they chickened out. Hudson valley federal credit union.  

    Banks suck. 

    2Reply
  • Eric M.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:
    Originally posted by @Alan G.:

    @John Hickey John I love the strategy and am doing almost the same in my area just west of Philadelphia. I looked for a block with many board ups and foreclosures and bought all of them. Renovated everything now I control who lives there. Once the neighbors started seeing our nice homes they start fixing also.

    Doesn’t happen overnight since I’m buying 1 by 1 as they come up. Although I’m never selling. By controlling most of the tenants on a block I control who lives on the block.

    Love your idea.

    I find it kind of creepy that you claim twice that you "control who lives on the street". Well, if you are following fair housing laws, I don't see how you control who lives on your street. 

    How do you control who applies to rent your units? Or do you just pick and choose who you approve based on your personal biases?

    Hey Eric,

    Wow, where to start....first thank you for the typical hyper sensitive virtue signaling reading into his statement as "creepy"

    Let me start by asking you some fair housing questions:

    Are drug dealers a protected class?

    Are violent street gangs a protected class?

    Are illegal drug addicts a protected class?

    Is graffiti illegal?

    Is defecating in public on the sidewalk illegal?

    Is loitering with the intent to sell drugs or solicit prostitution  illegal?

    Is petty theft illegal?

    Just "controlling" the block enough to keep the people that do that activity away is something most federal, state, and municipal governments would be re-elected for and probably get nobel peace prizes, too.


    I would be willing to bet skid row violates all kinds of fair housing laws. Fair housing laws are for protecting people against racism, sexism, ageism, religionism, genderism, disabilityism and any other "ism" that is morally wrong and common criteria for bigotry.....NOTHING, John has said implies or suggest violating any of those protected classes, or any fair housing laws....so if you feel "creepy" vibe, it's probably your problem and your better off keeping it to yourself! 

    First of all your reflexive, defensive rants have apparently affected your reading skill. I did not respond to anyone named john. I don't even know what john said. I responded to Alan, who is quoted in my post.

    As to your strawman argument, I did not say keeping drug dealers or gangs away is not preferable nor that you shouldn't report crimes if you see them. But it makes absolutely no difference if any of those people are a protected class, which I also didn't claim.

    How does a landlord "control" whether a drug dealer applies for his apartment? He can't. How about a gang member? Can't.  How about a drug addict or knowing whether the drug they are addicted to is illegal? Can't. Graffiti artists? Can't control them either. Prostitute? Nope. Thieves? Nope. Murderer? Nope. Rapist? Still no way to control that.

    Only if they are convicted of those crimes can you even begin to control if they are on the lease. And even then you can't control whether they live there or visit....or if they turn into one of these after they have moved in.

    Makes no difference if its an A neighborhood or a D neighborhood, as a landlord you can't prevent any of these people from coming to or even living in your property.

    So, how exactly can owning every house on the street allow someone to "control who lives there"?

    1Reply
  • Viron Hale
    Buffalo, NY · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    It seems like you're using a sort of BRRRR method @John Hickey, have you only done this on house do you believe the same can work for vacant buildings?

    0Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Eric M. So your saying you’ll take all the druggies and prostitutes from local landlords. Sweet. Your a gentleman  landlord.

    Rest of you lower class types like me.......i usually don’t get many apps from the street ppl, prostitutes etc.  

    So it’s not even an issue.  

    If I did I would look over all applications carefully and use my judgment to pick the best tenant.  Note the process.  

    Income wipes out most prostitutes druggies and dealers.  

    0Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    One more thing.  

    People are like apples good and bad.  Juts like apples you some times have to uncover the rottenness. 

    When I take apps I narrow it down to a small group.  If I don’t get enough I’ll meet ppl but hold off renting unless I get the perfect applicant.  

    In my process in this type of neighborhood unless I personally know the applicant....

    I meet them in person within a few blocks of where they live and interview them. If that goes well and they pass that meeting...

    I bring up they live close by let them know they just passed the interview.  

    And ask to inspect their current residence and try to meet the landlord.  See the rest of the family. 

    I’ll be with these ppl For years.  The extra few minutes is well worth it.  

    2Reply
  • Sol Silverstein
    Rental Property Investor · Albany/Troy, NY · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @John Hickey sent you a pm

    0Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:
    Originally posted by @Isaac S.:
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:
    Originally posted by @Alan G.:

    @John Hickey John I love the strategy and am doing almost the same in my area just west of Philadelphia. I looked for a block with many board ups and foreclosures and bought all of them. Renovated everything now I control who lives there. Once the neighbors started seeing our nice homes they start fixing also.

    Doesn’t happen overnight since I’m buying 1 by 1 as they come up. Although I’m never selling. By controlling most of the tenants on a block I control who lives on the block.

    Love your idea.

    I find it kind of creepy that you claim twice that you "control who lives on the street". Well, if you are following fair housing laws, I don't see how you control who lives on your street. 

    How do you control who applies to rent your units? Or do you just pick and choose who you approve based on your personal biases?

    Hey Eric,

    Wow, where to start....first thank you for the typical hyper sensitive virtue signaling reading into his statement as "creepy"

    Let me start by asking you some fair housing questions:

    Are drug dealers a protected class?

    Are violent street gangs a protected class?

    Are illegal drug addicts a protected class?

    Is graffiti illegal?

    Is defecating in public on the sidewalk illegal?

    Is loitering with the intent to sell drugs or solicit prostitution  illegal?

    Is petty theft illegal?

    Just "controlling" the block enough to keep the people that do that activity away is something most federal, state, and municipal governments would be re-elected for and probably get nobel peace prizes, too.


    I would be willing to bet skid row violates all kinds of fair housing laws. Fair housing laws are for protecting people against racism, sexism, ageism, religionism, genderism, disabilityism and any other "ism" that is morally wrong and common criteria for bigotry.....NOTHING, John has said implies or suggest violating any of those protected classes, or any fair housing laws....so if you feel "creepy" vibe, it's probably your problem and your better off keeping it to yourself! 

    First of all your reflexive, defensive rants have apparently affected your reading skill. I did not respond to anyone named john. I don't even know what john said. I responded to Alan, who is quoted in my post.

    As to your strawman argument, I did not say keeping drug dealers or gangs away is not preferable nor that you shouldn't report crimes if you see them. But it makes absolutely no difference if any of those people are a protected class, which I also didn't claim.

    How does a landlord "control" whether a drug dealer applies for his apartment? He can't. How about a gang member? Can't.  How about a drug addict or knowing whether the drug they are addicted to is illegal? Can't. Graffiti artists? Can't control them either. Prostitute? Nope. Thieves? Nope. Murderer? Nope. Rapist? Still no way to control that.

    Only if they are convicted of those crimes can you even begin to control if they are on the lease. And even then you can't control whether they live there or visit....or if they turn into one of these after they have moved in.

    Makes no difference if its an A neighborhood or a D neighborhood, as a landlord you can't prevent any of these people from coming to or even living in your property.

    So, how exactly can owning every house on the street allow someone to "control who lives there"?


    I really get the impression from your argument that you have a liberal arts undergrad and probably minimal real world experience.

    But, I have some time to waste so here it goes:


    How does a landlord "control" whether a drug dealer applies for his
    apartment?

    I don't care who applies and I don't need to control who applies....I do control who gets approved and what criteria is used. If my criteria is normal/standard commonly accepted(and legal) criteria, it will disqualify a convicted drug dealer without violating any Fair Housing rules. If the applicant is a drug dealer that has no convictions, they will more than likely fail the standard proof of credit worthiness and income/employment, still legal fair housing guidelines. If they are a drug dealer that manages to pass all those hurdles, than more than likely they will be smart enough to not be dealing from the stoop or corner in front of my rental, and therefore not my primary concern in a war zone scenario. They may actually end up being an ally as they want less police attention too and will probably help keep away the other dealers and stupid behavior, also, more than likely a dealer of that level of intelligence would not need to deal, to make money, and if they did still want to deal, would probably disqualify that neighborhood in favor of more icognito suburb or neighborhood with less competing criminal activity that could impact his dirt.

    How about a gang member? Please see above

    How about a drug  addict or knowing whether the drug they are addicted to is illegal? Please see above, again. Also, don't really care if you're a junky or junky sympathetic, I just don't want common junky behavior: petty theft, disturbing the peace, unauthorized guest/tenants, vandalism, etc.

     Graffiti artists? This is very telling, the fact that you say "artists". I love urban murals! In los angeles we have some of the best street art in the world, second to only NY. I see plenty of private business hiring ex-taggers and ex-gangbangers to do beautiful murals....and then some punk current tagger or gangster comes along to deface the "art" and tags it with his goofy tag name or possible a real gang that is using the graffiti to intimidate and mark their area. That is not art, and if you take care of the tenant screening(as mentioned above), you will "control" your block and absolutely reduce the amount of graffiti. Also, a responsible street artist has a code of ethics, would not tag private property(unless it was abandoned).

    Prostitute?Thieves? Murderer?  Rapist? Dude, for real? Please see the first answer again.

    It all stems from, just not being a slumlord that allows any a-hole with enough cash or vouchers to move in. Applying legal and common standards will reduce or remove almost all of the tenants that will cause the majority of the anti-social behavior.

    You're argument and points wreak of inexperience and idealism.

    Have you ever done a background check and it had come back that the applicant didn't mention their conviction for 2nd degree murder? I have, and I could have rented to the guy and his girlfriend, but, fortunately murderers are not a protected class, yet, so I legally rejected the application and therefore "controlled" who lived in that building. Again, I don't care who applies, only who I approve, so please stop making that goofy argument controlling who applies.

    You're desire to argue specific circumstances that can get past or miss common screening practices, but, really ends up being a very, very, very, small percentage of applicants. Also, an active landlord always paying attention to the property and always around and listening to the block captains and neighbors and good tenants and working with police and the city, is an absolute turn-off for criminally inclined individuals. No more abandoned squats, new street lights and porch lights, new security cameras, new responsible working tenants that desire order over chaos, are all things that deter/reduce crime. They make an area less attractive to drug dealing gangs, who are at the peak of the street criminal hierarchy, chase them out and the junkies and petty thieves will follow.

    You will absolutely control the block! Any experienced criminal or landlord will tell you as much.

    But, if you want to argue, just to argue...that's called trolling...if you don't get these points you are either highly delusional or trolling. Either way i'm done with you, best of luck!

    1Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y

    @Eric Michaels

    Dude, I just checked out your profile and some of your other posts and you seem to have experience in real estate..... it really is perplexing how you can not grasp the concepts we are talking about in this thread. I don't understand how you can not understand the reality of being able to control who lives in your buildings.

    Have you never rented/leased a property before?  If yes, do you do background checks including public records(criminal convictions)? This one "control" alone can take care of the overwhelming majority of problems.

    Come on man, are you messing with us?

    0Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Isaac S. you hit all the real world points.  

    Here’s a lesson hard learned.  

    I bought a building mentioned it earlier. “Worst building in newburgh” cops told me  

     multiple drug dealers. Cops did a bust.

    50+ local, state and federal LEO, Armored vehicle, helicopter. 

    Great right?  They actually locked up some more people within days....so I had some vacancy.   New flooring, paint spruced up a bit back on the market.  

    While interviewing I was encouraged that I had a lot of applicants.  Awesome. Did some checks ppl were good......nope. rented to another dealer.   They wanted the other guys customers, had cash easy and on paper they were good, woman rented unit few days later boyfriend is there every day. In NY your done as soon as they move in took a while but ..got rid of him.

    After that? 

    extensive background checks for every applicant. I raised the rents took my time.

    I do now notice every tenant that mentioned cash.....I did a little extra check on   

    And Jesus too   Anyone that says bless you and is trying to rent an apt sucks.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...

    1Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y

     Haha....yes, the old bait switch... 

    Here's my similar story. Very qualified young lady with great credit, job, etc interviews and rents place and the her "borther" moved in... I never actually saw the original applicant again after lease and keys....the actual tenant was a stone cold gangster pimp(not to be confused with the suave type pimp) and had his girl turning tricks in the apartment, he had numerous confrontations with tricks that resulted in fights in the common areas and one time a big hole smashed in the wall of one of the stairway landings that was from him throwing a guy down the stairs. He tried to intimidate me several times, but, was smart enough to see that it was no win situation for him to battle with me(plus I think he was on probation). Eventually, I found the original applicants phone number in my application paperwork and when I notified her of my intention to evict her, she got her brother the pimp to move out a day or two later. I was lucky the original applicant(wasn't a totally fake identity) had some sway over the pimp and they were both smart enough to not escalate.

    What do you know....I was able to control who lived in my building and my good tenants were thankful for it. I didn't violate any fair housing, I just wasn't apathetic or naive.


    1Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    @Viron Haleundefined

    sorry forgot to get back...

    I’ve done it on single family, multi family and mixed use.  

    Yes it's like BRRRR

    Yes I’ve done it on vacant buildings as well.  

    I do think that momentum/strength in numbers helps.  So when I had a single family I converted it to 3 smaller apts so that there was a group of new ppl moving in at one time.  

    I always put up cameras(a lot) lights and recently I paid the upfront costs for a security system tthat tenant arranged for. That’s something I will do in the future on all this type of Reno   

    0Reply
  • Davido Davido
    Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2012 · 544 posts · 311 votes
    7y

    @Isaac S. "but, fortunately murderers are not a protected class, yet,"  That got a chuckle.



    1Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Davido Davido:

    @Isaac S. "but, fortunately murderers are not a protected class, yet,"  That got a chuckle.



    Haha, yeah, the irony is that it's funny because it almost seems like that is the direction the country is going in...anyway, thanks for the comment and glad to deliver some comic relief, have a good day!

    1Reply
  • John Hickey
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
    7y

    One of my projects.  Also the most dangerous street in the one time murder capital of NYS. Good to see kids getting on busses moms/families walking around here....I was a bystander on this one tho. I bought after the changes.  

    3Reply
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