Flipper/Rehabber · Easton, PA · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 36 votes
I am trying to decide what the best type of flooring would be to do. The first house is in a popular historic college town. Most homes even the rentals have hardwood floors. Sell for around $150k .The second house is a little further away from the first, in an average area and would sell around 120k. I think people here generally like the hardwoods better then say a laminate or vinyl floor and out first exit strategy is to flip but our second is to hold for rentals if they don't sell( or in the case of the first house a turn key landlord might want to purchase ). So should we go with the engineered wood? I want something at a good price but durable and I am kinda afraid if we out in a vinyl it might chase away potential buyers. I know the engineered can also be sanded a few times if it does turn into a rental situation. What do you think?? Thanks!
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
12y
I've installed both engineered hardwood and laminate.
Laminate has bad connotations because for years it was garbage. Laminate has come along way though. They still make the garbage stuff, but if you spend a little more you can buy a decent laminate.
If you purchase a quality underlayment and a decent laminate floor, most people will not know the difference.
The only benefit I see to the hardwood is that you can claim its real wood flooring...
Laminate is cheaper and it is typically harder (scratch resistant) than engineered wood.
Below are two of my houses that I personally installed the floor. One is laminate @ $1.99 sq/ft. The other is engineered hardwood @ $3.99 sq/ft. Can you tell which is which?
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 228 posts · 30 votes
12y
Hi @Jessica H. . For both the houses, have you thought about wood textured tile? It gives your buyers/tenants the warm look they want with minimal maintenance and durability for the buyer and you. With hardwood for the rental, you would need to do a bit more work to preserve and maintain it. You know renters won't really care too much about the flooring and if they have dogs, they may cause more damage for you to repair.
Price wise, they're usually less expensive than laminate or real wood flooring. Tile better resists moisture than hardwood. Hope this helps and let me know what you end up deciding.
While wood textured tile might be nice in Texas, extensive use of tile floors are not big attraction in places where you have *real* winter (unless you have in-floor radiant heat).
Jessica:
A good engineered hardwood may not be a lot cheaper than the real hardwood, but it will allow for refinishing. The real the beauty is engineered hardwood is more stable. If you are laying it on a less than ideal subfloor - or even, on a subfloor over concrete - it is far less likely to twist and cup as real hardwood is renown to do.
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 228 posts · 30 votes
12y
@Roy N. Yes, you are correct. Wood floors would be warmer and just like any material, they have to decide what they really want/need. People can place rugs and wear slippers to get around the cold tiles if they want the durability, look and cost saving. If engineer wood provides characteristics they prefer but don't mind having to do a bit more maintenance, then this option is better. What are typical installation and material costs for engineering wood and is it easier to install than other flooring options?
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
12y
I've installed both engineered hardwood and laminate.
Laminate has bad connotations because for years it was garbage. Laminate has come along way though. They still make the garbage stuff, but if you spend a little more you can buy a decent laminate.
If you purchase a quality underlayment and a decent laminate floor, most people will not know the difference.
The only benefit I see to the hardwood is that you can claim its real wood flooring...
Laminate is cheaper and it is typically harder (scratch resistant) than engineered wood.
Below are two of my houses that I personally installed the floor. One is laminate @ $1.99 sq/ft. The other is engineered hardwood @ $3.99 sq/ft. Can you tell which is which?
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
12y
@Cuong Le rather than reply to your message I feel it more appropriate to post a response here.
That cost is only for the floor itself. For laminate, factor in additional cost of underlayment, they sell big blue rolls at HD that work well. For hardwood, factor in glue or nails.
I installed both floors myself so I can't give any insight as to labor costs. Although an old school way to determine labor is to use material costs. So $2 per sq/ft labor for laminate would probably be about right since it goes down pretty fast. $4 for hardwood since it is typically glued or nailed and takes longer.
Although I would never install either in a bathroom, I do have engineered hardwood in my kitchen. It has the occasional water or milk spilled on it from my 2 year old daughter, with no problems. As long as the installation is good (tight joints) and there aren't large spills that go unattended, it should be fine.
To your original point of tile floors: Tile is obviously the best choice for wear, but it is also the most labor intensive and less preferred than wood.
I had engineered hardwood installed a few years ago in the kitchen and basement/office of my personal home, and I have been extremely pleased with how it has held up. The kitchen is a high traffic area, and we have three dogs that give it a good workout every day. It easily cleans up and looks like new, with no sign of scratches. As @Ryan R. mentioned, make sure you go with a good underlayment for whichever product you decide to go with. Although I did not install it myself, it can be a very approachable do-it-yourself project.
Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
12y
I also used both laminate and engineered wood. In my residence I used engineered. I have it installed downstairs and it's great! It makes the floor warm.
I have up / down duplex's and hardwood floors are too loud. So far good luck with Ultra Allure from HD..it clicks together so no glue, it is "waterproof" , solid color throughout the plank and really tough.
I've installed both engineered hardwood and laminate.
Laminate has bad connotations because for years it was garbage. Laminate has come along way though. They still make the garbage stuff, but if you spend a little more you can buy a decent laminate.
If you purchase a quality underlayment and a decent laminate floor, most people will not know the difference.
The only benefit I see to the hardwood is that you can claim its real wood flooring...
Laminate is cheaper and it is typically harder (scratch resistant) than engineered wood.
Below are two of my houses that I personally installed the floor. One is laminate @ $1.99 sq/ft. The other is engineered hardwood @ $3.99 sq/ft. Can you tell which is which?
Hey Ryan, sorry for responding so late. In the second picture, is that Vinyard Cherry laminate from Costco?
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
12y
@Jon Klaus that is "Earthwerks" engineered hardwood. It's got great grain and texture. I probably paid too much for it but its beautiful; about $4.00 per sq ft for just the wood.
Rehabber · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2013 · 864 posts · 510 votes
12y
Check out the new vinyl. It has come a LONG way. I found some for $1.89/ft that looks better than most of the engineered flooring I saw, definitely in that price range. I'm putting it in a $200k flip. Not sure I'd do it in a rental because its particle board and would be shot if it got real wet, but I'd put it in my own house in the basement or something, it looks great. You dont know its vinyl when its on the floor. It comes pre backed with whisper quiet and lays down pretty easy. I'm having my handy man do it instead of my floor guy.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
I did a flip last year where I installed engineered hard-wood. I took it a step further and bought "cabin grade", which is actually "seconds" with some defects that have to be cut out. So I had to actually purchase about 10-20% more. Overall it looks great and sold the house very well. And I saved a little money, but not a huge amount compared to the regular entry-level hardwood. I probably saved about $1 per sq ft.
Here's the rest of that story. That house had some entry level laminate in it when I bought it (REO). It was not installed properly and really wasn't up to snuff for this price range. So, I took out the laminate and moved it over and installed it in a rental that I was rehabbing (lower-cost house).
Check out the new vinyl. It has come a LONG way. I found some for $1.89/ft that looks better than most of the engineered flooring I saw, definitely in that price range. I'm putting it in a $200k flip. Not sure I'd do it in a rental because its particle board and would be shot if it got real wet, but I'd put it in my own house in the basement or something, it looks great. You dont know its vinyl when its on the floor. It comes pre backed with whisper quiet and lays down pretty easy. I'm having my handy man do it instead of my floor guy.
Do you have a link to what you are using, Darrell?
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
12y
This is a recent photo of that same floor above Jon. The samples on the island are Lamton 12 mm laminate. I installed some a couple weeks ago and the finish, color and texture are improved. It's pretty impressive for laminate. Cost about $1.69 per sq ft.
Check out the new vinyl. It has come a LONG way. I found some for $1.89/ft that looks better than most of the engineered flooring I saw, definitely in that price range. I'm putting it in a $200k flip. Not sure I'd do it in a rental because its particle board and would be shot if it got real wet, but I'd put it in my own house in the basement or something, it looks great. You dont know its vinyl when its on the floor. It comes pre backed with whisper quiet and lays down pretty easy. I'm having my handy man do it instead of my floor guy.
Are you sure this is vinyl? I haven't seen vinyl attached to particle board. I think of vinyl as an Allure type product.
I didnt see it there, but the sample I've got says Antique Hickory. You might could call them and ask. I'll be over there this week getting some stuff, and will try to remember to find out while I'm there.
The vinyl looks way better than the engineered floors in the same price range and should hold up better. Not so much the higher end engineered, but there's a big difference between $1.89/ft and $3.99/ft+.
Rehabber · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2013 · 864 posts · 510 votes
12y
Rob, its glorified cardboard, I call any of that stuff particle board. Its got a layer of vinyl on the top, an underlayment on the bottom and whatever you want to call the glue and sawdust in the middle. Snaps and locks together. Its probably a little over twice as thick as Pergo, which I assume is the same as Allure(?). I used Pergo here and there back in the day and hated it. This is a considerably better product from what I can tell.
Rob, its glorified cardboard, I call any of that stuff particle board. Its got a layer of vinyl on the top, an underlayment on the bottom and whatever you want to call the glue and sawdust in the middle. Snaps and locks together. Its probably a little over twice as thick as Pergo, which I assume is the same as Allure(?). I used Pergo here and there back in the day and hated it. This is a considerably better product from what I can tell.
Sounds intriguing. Traditional Pergo is 7-8 mm. Double that thickness would be substantial at <$2 PSF. I'd really like to see this flooring.
Investor · Port Colborne, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 137 posts · 31 votes
12y
We usually install laminate in the lower end homes we flip, but we use a 12.3mm with a beveled edge. The thickness gives it more stability the bevels make it look more real. We pay $1 per square from a large wood floor wholesaler in our area. The underlay we buy from a different wholesaler. It costs us approx $0.05 per sq/ft. Laminate is tough stuff, but you can't get it wet.
I have four dogs so in our house we went with engineered hardwood. A lot of these products today are floating and click together. We purchased an end of lot color at home depot for this and payed $2.49 sq/ft for this product and used our inexpensive underlay to put it all together. I find engineered or prefinished hardwood has a much harder finish then hardwood that has been refinished. All of my dogs are large and I was really nervous in the beginning. The floor is dark and they still look great after 4 years.
I think the most important thing is to have it installed correctly. I personally install all of my own flooring. I use a good quality undercut saw to get under the door jambs. I scribe all of my cuts to ensure that i get my required clearances while still getting the flooring to slide under the door opening to give it a nice finished look. This takes patience and some thought before installing the floor. The finished product always looks awesome.
Shop around and you can certainly save a lot and like any job have the right tools to do the job right the first time.
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
$1 PSF for 12.3mm and 5 cents for underlayment are great prices, Dave. We have a supplier in Dallas that has pricing like that. Definitely worth shopping hard to get this kind of pricing.
Accountant · Thornton, CO · Member since 2011 · 170 posts · 33 votes
12y
"That cost is only for the floor itself. For laminate, factor in additional cost of underlayment, they sell big blue rolls at HD that work well. For hardwood, factor in glue or nails. "
I've used the padded laminate from Samsclub before so I didn't have to put down an underlayment. It cost about $1.50/ft, although that was about 5 years ago. Are there any problems with the pre-padded laminates? It sure installed easily.