Question regarding changing hallway configuration

Question regarding changing hallway configuration

New to Real Estate · Member since 2022 · 147 posts · 110 votes

Hi everyone,

I am looking for my second deal in Cleveland and looked at a duplex today that had a strange layout in the upstairs unit. Since I saw it over facetime I didn't get a picture or video of it so Im hoping I can explain what it was. So for the upstairs unit the door was at the back of the house separated from the downstairs unit. When you open the door, there is a staircase and at the top of the staircase there is like a little hallway area maybe (12x4 ft) with 3 doors. Note that there is no door at the top of the staircase to reach this little hallway area, the front door to the apartment is at the bottom of the stairs. The first door goes to the bathroom, second one to kitchen, third to living room. Technically the hallway is inside the apartment because the front door is at the bottom at the stairs, but it doesn't feel like it is. It feels like the hallway is still outside the apartment. This is obviously not an ideal setup and would be better if at the top of the stairs, there was a front door and then make that hallway to feel more like inside the apartment and not outside. I hope this makes sense.

If so, my question is simply is it worth converting it in such a way and how much could it possibly be? I know its hard without a picture but Im hoping I can get rough estimates just to know if its worth it. This would mean new flooring in the hallway and paint walls, ceiling, and doors (possibly removing the doors to kitchen and living room). It would also mean putting up a new wall that so that when you come up the stairs, you don't see into the hallway area. And then of course putting a new front door at the top of the stairs. Basically make the hallway be part of the inside of the apartment instead of the current awkward configuration. 

Another question is, would this require any type of permits, and if so how does that work in Cleveland and what does it cost?

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Luka Jozic

    Impossible to answer these questions- if you see serious about this property then you need to go visit it. Buying property especially property requiring work and never stepping foot in it is not recommended

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    Where is the bedroom?  Go and look at the house if it appeals to you. That is the only way (short of a floor plan) to get a sense of the layout and the house itself.  You will want to see it in person anyhow as details like windows opening, wood rot, etc are not apparent from videos.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Luka Jozic:

    Hi everyone,

    I am looking for my second deal in Cleveland and looked at a duplex today that had a strange layout in the upstairs unit. Since I saw it over facetime I didn't get a picture or video of it so Im hoping I can explain what it was. So for the upstairs unit the door was at the back of the house separated from the downstairs unit. When you open the door, there is a staircase and at the top of the staircase there is like a little hallway area maybe (12x4 ft) with 3 doors. Note that there is no door at the top of the staircase to reach this little hallway area, the front door to the apartment is at the bottom of the stairs. The first door goes to the bathroom, second one to kitchen, third to living room. Technically the hallway is inside the apartment because the front door is at the bottom at the stairs, but it doesn't feel like it is. It feels like the hallway is still outside the apartment. This is obviously not an ideal setup and would be better if at the top of the stairs, there was a front door and then make that hallway to feel more like inside the apartment and not outside. I hope this makes sense.

    If so, my question is simply is it worth converting it in such a way and how much could it possibly be? I know its hard without a picture but Im hoping I can get rough estimates just to know if its worth it. This would mean new flooring in the hallway and paint walls, ceiling, and doors (possibly removing the doors to kitchen and living room). It would also mean putting up a new wall that so that when you come up the stairs, you don't see into the hallway area. And then of course putting a new front door at the top of the stairs. Basically make the hallway be part of the inside of the apartment instead of the current awkward configuration. 

    Another question is, would this require any type of permits, and if so how does that work in Cleveland and what does it cost?


     Draw a map/diagram of what you're trying to say.

  • New to Real Estate · Member since 2022 · 147 posts · 110 votes
    3y
    Quote from @James Wise:
    Quote from @Luka Jozic:

    Hi everyone,

    I am looking for my second deal in Cleveland and looked at a duplex today that had a strange layout in the upstairs unit. Since I saw it over facetime I didn't get a picture or video of it so Im hoping I can explain what it was. So for the upstairs unit the door was at the back of the house separated from the downstairs unit. When you open the door, there is a staircase and at the top of the staircase there is like a little hallway area maybe (12x4 ft) with 3 doors. Note that there is no door at the top of the staircase to reach this little hallway area, the front door to the apartment is at the bottom of the stairs. The first door goes to the bathroom, second one to kitchen, third to living room. Technically the hallway is inside the apartment because the front door is at the bottom at the stairs, but it doesn't feel like it is. It feels like the hallway is still outside the apartment. This is obviously not an ideal setup and would be better if at the top of the stairs, there was a front door and then make that hallway to feel more like inside the apartment and not outside. I hope this makes sense.

    If so, my question is simply is it worth converting it in such a way and how much could it possibly be? I know its hard without a picture but Im hoping I can get rough estimates just to know if its worth it. This would mean new flooring in the hallway and paint walls, ceiling, and doors (possibly removing the doors to kitchen and living room). It would also mean putting up a new wall that so that when you come up the stairs, you don't see into the hallway area. And then of course putting a new front door at the top of the stairs. Basically make the hallway be part of the inside of the apartment instead of the current awkward configuration. 

    Another question is, would this require any type of permits, and if so how does that work in Cleveland and what does it cost?


     Draw a map/diagram of what you're trying to say.


    Here is a diagram I hope this makes more sense. let me know if you have any other questions.

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Aloha,

    It appears that the "door to upstairs unit" is ONLY access TO that unit. As such, it is not at all uncommon to find the arrangement you have described. The downstairs tenant does not have access (keys) to the door, right? Upstairs tenant has no way to enter downstairs unit, right? Plus, if you block of the top of the stairs with a door, you probably lose heat in the stairway, which might not be ideal. Looks like a pretty typical "conversion" from single family to duplex, which may, or may not, be legal and permitted.
  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Luka Jozic:
    Quote from @James Wise:
    Quote from @Luka Jozic:

    Hi everyone,

    I am looking for my second deal in Cleveland and looked at a duplex today that had a strange layout in the upstairs unit. Since I saw it over facetime I didn't get a picture or video of it so Im hoping I can explain what it was. So for the upstairs unit the door was at the back of the house separated from the downstairs unit. When you open the door, there is a staircase and at the top of the staircase there is like a little hallway area maybe (12x4 ft) with 3 doors. Note that there is no door at the top of the staircase to reach this little hallway area, the front door to the apartment is at the bottom of the stairs. The first door goes to the bathroom, second one to kitchen, third to living room. Technically the hallway is inside the apartment because the front door is at the bottom at the stairs, but it doesn't feel like it is. It feels like the hallway is still outside the apartment. This is obviously not an ideal setup and would be better if at the top of the stairs, there was a front door and then make that hallway to feel more like inside the apartment and not outside. I hope this makes sense.

    If so, my question is simply is it worth converting it in such a way and how much could it possibly be? I know its hard without a picture but Im hoping I can get rough estimates just to know if its worth it. This would mean new flooring in the hallway and paint walls, ceiling, and doors (possibly removing the doors to kitchen and living room). It would also mean putting up a new wall that so that when you come up the stairs, you don't see into the hallway area. And then of course putting a new front door at the top of the stairs. Basically make the hallway be part of the inside of the apartment instead of the current awkward configuration. 

    Another question is, would this require any type of permits, and if so how does that work in Cleveland and what does it cost?


     Draw a map/diagram of what you're trying to say.


    Here is a diagram I hope this makes more sense. let me know if you have any other questions.


     Doubt you'd get a big enough bang for your buck messing with moving the walls as illustrated. Your money can be better spent elsewhere.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    I 2nd what @James Wise said, but if I were going to do it (and I was not working with load bearing walls, I would focus on the back area and hall.

    It really comes down to what our close in competition is getting and what their offerings are.

    If you see a more tidy, rain protected look getting more money without sitting on the market too long, or you don't want to offer something too downscale (looking for a little better renter--hopefully)....maybe focus on the hall and back door.

    Some of the things I see that can could the possible rent a little better might be, door types, a rain roof, concrete patio and trash areas, a cellular door bell on the bottom, an outdoor modern looking pigtail florescent light (day lighter), the interior hall with commercial tread covers and lighting like the sun (day lighter) as well as a sturdy metal handrail or two, and a window at the top.

    But as James said above--beware of spending when you don't have to (but that's your call depending on your close in competition).

    Good Luck!

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    You can do anything, but is it worth it? You're probably looking at $5k= for all that work.....

    And yes, you'll need a permit because you'll be moving electrical outlets, lights and switches.

  • New to Real Estate · Member since 2022 · 147 posts · 110 votes
    3y

    Thanks for all the responses. It does sound like it might not be worth it. I spoke to my PM though and they said the area (Newbury Heights) is kind of a hassle to deal with so I decided to pass on this opportunity. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    Impossible to answer. If you are cash all you need to do is connect with those that do deals there and provide properties for rentals. You cannot do this on your own. it will not end well

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