Can't sell my flip
Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 2 votes
Can't sell my flip
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Consultant · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2014 · 661 posts · 400 votes
12y@Account Closed
Hey, here are some of my thoughts...
When I list flips (over 100 this year) I am watching a few things:
1. If I list a flip and do not get several showings within 2 weeks then I can assume that the house is over priced. Buyers do NOT show up for houses that are over priced no matter whats inside them.
2. If I list a house and get several showings but no offers then I can assume that it is something at or about the house. So I will begin to make changes. If people are showing up to the house it is priced right but there is something at the house that is saying don't buy this house.
Also keep in mind when flipping there are three things that sale houses:
1. PRICE
2. PRODUCT
3. PRESENTATION
You must focus on those three things when you are working on your outcome or sales.
If you have any questions please let me know I am more than happy to help you in any way. Again flipping is my game I have done literally 100's of them. I bought over 1 million dollars this week alone in new flips.
Good Luck!
Andrew
51 Replies
- Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 69 posts · 17 votes12y
Originally posted by @Tom Keith:
@Account Closed If it has been on market over year and suggestions that street too busy you might want to look at alternate exit strategy. Mainly Rental, or try to market away from problem. Anyway to buffer the street noise? These are just thoughts. Good Luck.This is a great piece of advice. Have multiple exit strategies. I am sure the holding cost have added up.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes12yAccidentally burn it to the ground...of course
- Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes12y
Ok..looked at the neighborhood via Zillow. You have mass competition priced way lower than you. If your gonna flip you want to be the lower not higher end. Next...Zillow shows purchase price a ways back of 34 grand? Was that you...if so why such a high asking price price? Did you tear it down and start over?
- Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 2 votes12y
yes, pretty much we had to basically tear it down and rebuild it apprx $60k was invested
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
Oleg it sounds like you way over invested putting 60,000 in. You might want to do the owner finance with some down at an inflated price as mentioned.
That might not be as appealing to you given you have almost 100k or more into this property currently. Even if you get 10k down you have 80k plus in cash trapped with purchase and rehab.
Maybe FSBO it for 95k and try to break even and take your trapped money to a better deal where you can actually make a profit.
- Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 2 votes12y
Originally posted by @Joel Owens:
Oleg it sounds like you way over invested putting 60,000 in. You might want to do the owner finance with some down at an inflated price as mentioned.
That might not be as appealing to you given you have almost 100k or more into this property currently. Even if you get 10k down you have 80k plus in cash trapped with purchase and rehab.
Maybe FSBO it for 95k and try to break even and take your trapped money to a better deal where you can actually make a profit.
hey, thank you so much. what's FSBO?
why wouldn't you like if i just rent it out?
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
For sale by owner so you save paying commissions. Normally I do not endorse this but when your margins are really bad you need every cent you can get.
If it just rent out you have about 100k of cash trapped in this property. I take it this is not an asset that you consider A quality for a long term hold in your portfolio. It sounds like a flip gone bad where the rehab cost went up too much and the price paid should have been lower.
- Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 2 votes12y
Originally posted by @Andrew Cordle:
@Account Closed
Hey, here are some of my thoughts...
When I list flips (over 100 this year) I am watching a few things:
1. If I list a flip and do not get several showings within 2 weeks then I can assume that the house is over priced. Buyers do NOT show up for houses that are over priced no matter whats inside them.
2. If I list a house and get several showings but no offers then I can assume that it is something at or about the house. So I will begin to make changes. If people are showing up to the house it is priced right but there is something at the house that is saying don't buy this house.
Also keep in mind when flipping there are three things that sale houses:
1. PRICE
2. PRODUCT
3. PRESENTATION
You must focus on those three things when you are working on your outcome or sales.
If you have any questions please let me know I am more than happy to help you in any way. Again flipping is my game I have done literally 100's of them. I bought over 1 million dollars this week alone in new flips.
Good Luck!
Andrew
thank you so much, what specifically would you recommend i should change/add ?
- Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
yes, pretty much we had to basically tear it down and rebuild it apprx $60k was investedWait. The rehab was $60K? Or do you mean total investment? Looks like you bought it for $34K. If you're in at $94K, after selling and holding costs, it looks like you're selling at a loss.
On the other hand, if your rehab was only $26K, there are definitely things you can do with the exterior to move that property.
Regardless something has to give. The nearby sold comps I looked at were similar priced, similar size. Oddly enough, they were somewhat similarly rehabbed. Lots of very taste specific tile and flooring going on over there in North Philly. I think your property would appraise for asking. But you need buyers. Drop that price and/or fix the exterior and backyard/fence situation.
- House Flipper · East Stroudsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 205 votes12y
If you have been carrying the property for a year I would think you are anxious to correct the problem. I'm sure you structured a budget for repairs and carrying costs; the year carrying costs are cutting into your profits. I would follow the suggestions you received and make the exterior appeal a primary objective to overcome. I believe you have received the answers to your problem, now you have to determine just how inexpensively you can take corrective measures. Cut you're losses and take action quickly and learn from the experience
- Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
Another issue is your buyer pool is likely FHA. If you do not fix the broken concrete stairs, it will likely come up on the inspection.
Google maps shows the property on a corner, at a busy 3 way intersection and across from the entrance to a school. Those properties will always be harder to sell. Also, the street view shows broken retaining walls holding up the backyard. If that has not yet been addressed, that too will come up in the inspection and need to be addressed.
You may want to consider selling it to a buyer with a downpayment and carrying back a note for the balance.
- Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes12y
@Account Closed
You answered my question with your posts as you are buying these hand over fist.
Guess what, just when you think you know it all you dont. Just when the flipper were at the top of there game they were destroyed by the pull back in 2008. You may have a nice house re-hab but you dropped way to much in it and it at the moment is going to be hard to recoup. To me the quantity factor you seem to be after means nothing. I have found that in selling when people go for the grand slam profit they sometimes get creamed. In reverse the guy selling the low profit item but makes up in quantity is moving the product and staying liquid..
In the end I come away with this, if you are doing these projects from cash and you have to sit on a house for a spell so what. If you are doing all these houses from credit and leverage and one little house upsets the apple cart...........guess what. Your lil house buisness is a house of cards.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2008 · 432 posts · 63 votes12y
Jon is right, the street is a killer. No matter how nice it looks there is a large percentage of buyers who will not consider a house on a busy street. So, automatically you have a smaller pool of potential buyers. Secondly, no matter how nice it looks a home on a busy street will sell for quite a bit less than the same exact house that is not on a busy street. Location, location, location. You will only sell that house if buyers consider the trade off having a nice house (or a cheap house) on a busy street worth the sacrifice.
And you wonder why agents were all so off on the price...many agents will take any listing and tell you any price so they get your listing and then they will use your house to get buyers for other properties. Sorry--but that's how a lot of agents work. Your house is bate for other sales.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 9 votes12y
Speaking as a buyer, I think the inside looks pretty darn good, but I would never know because I'd drive by and flee.
Also, and this is just one of my pet peeves as someone who vets a lot of properties over the internet. You have a bjillion photos, most of them are repeats, and they go in no particular order. If you aren't going to list an actual video, fewer photos and in some sensible order allows a prospective buyer to imagine walking through in their mind. Instead, I felt like I was having flashbacks...living room, kitchen, bathroom, kitchen, basement, yard, kitchen, AUGH! (I mean this in the nicest possible way.)
I hope you're able to sell or rent!
- Real Estate Agent · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 30 votes12y
From what I can see that is a VERY busy intersection. Also the chain-link is gross. White picket fence in front. Taller fence in back to add privacy. The dog eared wooden slat type. Pay a laborer to remove the backyard concrete and get some sod in there with three small shrubs and some mulch. Inside looks nice from the pics I saw (IMHO). However it sounds like the kitchen floor offends some peeps. In the end if no one is knocking, its priced too high.
- Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes12y
Okay so lots of good and bad here.
Overall looks like the interior was done nicely and based on the description you did a good job upgrading all the major components of the home as well.
Now looking at the listing there are plenty of things that can be done, starting with the listing itself (assuming the Zillow more or less clones the actual MLS one as well).
As pointed out a couple comments ago WAY to many pictures. Not that lots of pics are bad, but you have lots of useless ones. Seems like you have 3-4 of the same picture of a whole bunch of things. No value there, just annoying. Also as pointed out no flow to them. Put all the ones of a room together and try to make it somewhat flow with the house layout.
Also take out the bad ones. Mostly the exterior pics of the back yard area. Those add nothing to getting people out there.
For things you can do to make it look better the exterior items mentioned are the biggest ones. At least fix those front stairs. They look terrible and give a really bad first impression. The back yard could use some TLC as well. However not as likely for people to see all that until after they get inside so less of a big deal.
For the inside the only thing that jumps out is a few kitchen things for me. There is no fridge? Not even sure exactly where one puts it. Seems like there was an area on the other side of a doorway that would be where it has to go? I'd suck it up and get a couple more cabinets to put over one and get a coordinating fridge (Don't have to go nuts with a $2,500 French door one with the bottom freezer and all the fancy stuff. Get an old school freezer on top that matches the others for more like $800).
Then there is that kitchen floor. What is that??? If I looked at that floor in the picture then scanned up I would expect to see avocado cabinets, pink counters and harvest gold appliances. Is it vinyl or tile, or something else? It is very taste specific and to me quite ugly. I am NOT picky either (as I feel a lot of the other suggestions being made are overkill) but you will be much better off getting that out of there and putting in the cheapest beige tiles you can get from HomeDepot clearance rack.
Of course at the end of the day if the price was attractive enough this other stuff wouldn't be as big of a deal. So you have had it listed a really long time with multiple brokers so you have had exposure. Are you getting showings but no offers? Are you getting some offers but all really low? Have you had any contracts fall though? If you say you have had 50+ showings a half dozen low offers and had a contract that fell though after a couple weeks then you will sound like in a better place then if you have only had a handful of showings and no offers in a year.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2012 · 233 posts · 45 votes12y
Have you staged the property? I would hire the most recommended interior designer who has staging experience and try that. Staging can dramatically change that "first impression" you get, but the first step is to get them inside. With that said I agree with a lot of people on the thread about the street and landscaping but you can always pick apart a property with opinions. I'd try staging.
- Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
Originally posted by @Shaun Reilly:
For things you can do to make it look better the exterior items mentioned are the biggest ones. At least fix those front stairs. They look terrible and give a really bad first impression. The back yard could use some TLC as well. However not as likely for people to see all that until after they get inside so less of a big deal.
Check out the google street view on that corner. The trouble with that backyard is that you see it driving up to the house and parking next to the the house. Totally exposed, with a retaining wall inside the chain link fence in the same condition as the front stairs. Not enough people are going inside because the backyard is scaring them away. They are driving by and then driving away.
Get a stack of 6' fence boards and use the existing chain link poles as posts and make a quick and dirty wooden fence. It will do wonders to get people into the house.
That kitchen tile action is something I have in my farms. Really big square tiles that make complete pattern. I've never seen it in flip. It's usually DIY by the previous owner as it's very taste specific. Comes in all kinds of color combos that you would never think of. :)
More people need to get inside the house and you'll find a buyer.
- Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Shaun Reilly:
For things you can do to make it look better the exterior items mentioned are the biggest ones. At least fix those front stairs. They look terrible and give a really bad first impression. The back yard could use some TLC as well. However not as likely for people to see all that until after they get inside so less of a big deal.
Check out the google street view on that corner. The trouble with that backyard is that you see it driving up to the house and parking next to the the house. Totally exposed, with a retaining wall inside the chain link fence in the same condition as the front stairs. Not enough people are going inside because the backyard is scaring them away. They are driving by and then driving away.
Get a stack of 6' fence boards and use the existing chain link poles as posts and make a quick and dirty wooden fence. It will do wonders to get people into the house.
That kitchen tile action is something I have in my farms. Really big square tiles that make complete pattern. I've never seen it in flip. It's usually DIY by the previous owner as it's very taste specific. Comes in all kinds of color combos that you would never think of. :)
More people need to get inside the house and you'll find a buyer.
Yeah if the back is that noticeable probably need to put more effort that normally required then.
That being said if it was listed at $99K probably wouldn't have to many issues...
- Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes12y
@Account Closed Just saw this thread and briefly skimmed the many responses, but my first and biggest thought wasn't brought up until near the end by @Tony Cavalli and my thought is exactly the same (and I learned this one "the hard way") STAGING SELLS HOUSES!!! I know Tony mentioned finding a great interior designer who does staging, that's certainly one idea, or if you just look around a bit, you'll likely find a bunch of home stagers and for good reason, its certainly a growing business. I'm a broker as well as a flipper and I know several "big time" high volume brokers who just won't list a house unless its either staged (if vacant) or if its occupied, they'll bring someone in to assess the seller's furniture, etc and make whatever changes they see necessary to make the place look just right to sell. Honest to God, there are a lot of times when sellers will have even decent furniture and stuff but a good stager will come through and want to make major changes! For instance, I was selling a house that a former partner was living in, it was a newer 3000+ sq foot home that had a rather smallish living room. My former partner put a MASSIVE sectional couch set in that room that nearly took up the entire room! It was a nice one as far as sectionals go, I forget how much he said it cost but it wasn't cheap but my stager took one look and said its got to go! The sectional was so big that it made an already smallish liv room look like a joke! If the sellers refuse to stage, they refuse the listing because they know they'll have many more coming and don't want to waste their precious time trying and trying to sell an unstaged home. Another option is if you're already doing other flips or are definitely planning on doing more, you could take some time and shop for some deals on buying your own furniture and accessories (remember, great staging is much more than just plopping a rug and a couple couches in the living room-its really setting a mood with little knick knacks, accessories, art, etc) but often on craigslist you can find barely used decent furniture for some good or even great deals. If worse comes to worse and you never do another flip,. maybe you could keep the stuff or else sell it to someone else on craigslist.
My other thoughts mirror what several have already said, your pics need work. I'm a believer in using all 25 that my local mls allows-ASSUMING-the house has enough unique subjects to fill all of them. Since I usually always work on the mid to higher end, I usually have no problem. FOR SURE get rid of the opening shot that includes the f#&ked up sidewalk and steps-why in the world is that on there on any pic, let alone the primary pic???? Why all of the exterior shots-its not a particularly attractive exterior? Now, moving inside, things actually look quite nice, especially those wood floors, but again no staging. Kitchen looks nice, although as others have mentioned the floor is a bit on the funky side, I don't think its a deal killer though. The tiled shower surround looks quite nice as well. Another issue that I believe I saw mentioned already as well is how the pics jump back and forth exterior to living room to kitchen back to liv room back to kichen to bath back to kitchen back to bath-get them in some sort of order and FOR SURE ditch ALL of the exterior pics that show the rather poor yard condition OR spend a few bucks and do a little landscaping, a little money in mulch, plants, etc can go a long way there too!
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 200 votes12y
I think your issues are:
Landscaping - tear out the concrete and lay fresh sod
Kitchen Flooring - way too personal
Basement - paint the floor grey and the walls white
- Capistrano Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 283 posts · 169 votes12y
Hi Oleg, don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said but personally, if I was in your situation, I would spring for a really really nice tall fence to block out traffic and what seems to be a commercial or industrial space. The fence would help to create a sense of serenity from the traffic and maybe even block out some of the traffic noise and give buyers a sense of security.
But unfortunately, given the location, I think you would likely have to sell below comps to get the property moving due to the location. To give you a sense of how much of an issue a major road is, in my market, after much calculating and data tracking, I normally minus around $80K or around 10% off the comps to estimate ARV if the house backs to a major street. So perhaps it might make sense to take the comps, knock off around 10% and see what price you arrive at.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Mt. Laurel, NJ · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 4 votes12y
Not sure you sold or rented your house yet (Hope so) I just seen this thread.
Great Job on the rehab.
I grew up in that area. You are on one of the busiest corners in that neighborhood. Basically at the corner of 2 major streets in that area.
Plus Parking is not that great right there.
Again this is mute if the property is already sold or rented.
1. Clean the steps up. power wash and patch them.
2. Try and keep the yard clean. ( That back yard is pretty rough ). Chain link is common for that area so that is fine. May want to do the white inserts though. to add some privacy for the back yard. Again you are on a very busy corner
3. Stage the home.
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