Ask me your electrical questions!
Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes
Ask me your electrical questions!
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Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11yOriginally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
it means everything from the riser, the rain head, the cam, the meter, the wire from the meter to the pane..
look at this pic... it's from the "weatherproof fittings" to the "Service wire holder".
211 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes11y
What makes light bulbs fail pre-maturely??
Thanks to Obama and his energy efficient stuff the cost of light bulbs is ridiculous now.
You used to could buy a pack for 1.49 for 4. Now they cost 4 dollars at Wal-Mart.
Energy efficient doesn't matter if they burn out earlier than promised. Is it the fact they are made in China versus the American ones?? Is it electrical in the walls or do old contacts you screw the light bulbs into cause pre-mature burn out.
My house is from 2000 and there is no issues with electrical here at all. The bulbs just tend to burn out faster then I think they should.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
It's probably not the house if it's that new. I've seen chandelier lamps go out prematurely often and also exterior fixtures. It mostly depends on the quality of the fixture moreso than the bulb that's in it.
What type (incandescent, halogen, CFL, LED) of bulbs are you using and where is the fixture?
A few years ago I slowly started converting to LED in my house. Zero have had any issues. I highly recommend LED lamps. The ONLY downside is that they are very expensive. My house's exterior lights blew out traditional lamp, I put LEDs in there and haven't had an issue in 3 years. They're also on a timer to turn on and off every night, so they get cycled frequently.
That said, in say a rental or a situation whwere LED just isnt warranted, spend the extra dollar or two per pack to get a Philips or GE brand traditional lamp.
I am really not a big fan of CFL lamps. they have to warm up, they don't dim as well as other options, and frequently the color is different from lamp to lamp even in the same pack.
To answer your questions, I'd say buy better lamps. I'd consider LED as they can take more abuse (on off on off on off) (moisture), and they're cheaper than a new fixture.... Usually.
- Investor · Mahopac, NY · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 13 votes11y
Originally posted by @Loren Thomas:
I've been an electrician in Washington (the real one..) for 10 years, residential, commercial, and industrial. I've learned a ton from BP so this is me trying to give back with knowledge of something I know very well. Hit me up anytime.. even if you're reading this a year from now..
Hi Loren,
I am swapping out a few outlets for the first time - how do I know if I have connected the wires correctly (by looping around the screws)? i feel like I may be over thinking it..
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
That's the safest way yes. White wire goes to silver screw, black wire to gold screw, and bare copper or green wire to green screw.
You can also strip the wires and stab them into the back of the outlet near the correct screw, but you can only do this if its 14 gauge wire, and only the black and white.
- Real Estate Investor · Orting, WA · Member since 2015 · 32 posts · 9 votes11y
Hello Loren
Here's a question: I did not check the outside rear electrical boxes when i purchased my duplex in Orting. Both outside boxes (one each side) are not working but they have some power, I know because i have one of those special cords that light up when they are plugged into an outlet. It lights somewhat but there must be a ground issue. How should i go about testing and could these be off because the crawl space water pumps are off?
Thanks for letting me know.
- Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2012 · 588 posts · 224 votes11y
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
- Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
it means everything from the riser, the rain head, the cam, the meter, the wire from the meter to the pane..
look at this pic... it's from the "weatherproof fittings" to the "Service wire holder".
- Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
i have my own question... i wanted to put a GFI breaker in the panel so the entire garage was protected (silly inspectors).
installing individual GFI outlet in the garage worked perfectly. but installing GFI breaker in the panel did not. I installed it correctly (white to above pig tail, black in the next nut, pig tail to bus bar). nothing. it did not even light up, would not even click to "on position".
so i HAD to put 3 GFI outlets instead. i was so mad about it..
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Robert Cummings:
Hello Loren
Here's a question: I did not check the outside rear electrical boxes when i purchased my duplex in Orting. Both outside boxes (one each side) are not working but they have some power, I know because i have one of those special cords that light up when they are plugged into an outlet. It lights somewhat but there must be a ground issue. How should i go about testing and could these be off because the crawl space water pumps are off?
Thanks for letting me know.
Do you mean outlets on the rear of the duplex, or the main electrical panels? Assuming you mean outlets, I'd get a plug tester ($10) and plug it in. Which of the three lights light up will tell you want the problem is.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
A new service is from the weatherhead (where the utility hooks up their power), riser/conduit to the meter, and conduit from the meter to the electrical panel, and the electrical panel itself. I guess it's possible to replace everything but the electrical panel, but normally the electrical panel is included in a "new service" because whatever the reason for replacing it all, the panel likely will fall to the same criteria.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @George P.:
i have my own question... i wanted to put a GFI breaker in the panel so the entire garage was protected (silly inspectors).
installing individual GFI outlet in the garage worked perfectly. but installing GFI breaker in the panel did not. I installed it correctly (white to above pig tail, black in the next nut, pig tail to bus bar). nothing. it did not even light up, would not even click to "on position".
so i HAD to put 3 GFI outlets instead. i was so mad about it..
A GFI breaker has a spot for the neutral of the circuit in addition to the standard branch circuit output. Sounds like you could have mixed up the black and white wires, otherwise it sounds like you did it right.
- Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2012 · 588 posts · 224 votes11y
Originally posted by @Loren Thomas:
Originally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
A new service is from the weatherhead (where the utility hooks up their power), riser/conduit to the meter, and conduit from the meter to the electrical panel, and the electrical panel itself. I guess it's possible to replace everything but the electrical panel, but normally the electrical panel is included in a "new service" because whatever the reason for replacing it all, the panel likely will fall to the same criteria.
Is there some part of it that also upgrades the amount of power coming into the house?
- Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Originally posted by @Loren Thomas:
Originally posted by @Shawn Thom:
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
A new service is from the weatherhead (where the utility hooks up their power), riser/conduit to the meter, and conduit from the meter to the electrical panel, and the electrical panel itself. I guess it's possible to replace everything but the electrical panel, but normally the electrical panel is included in a "new service" because whatever the reason for replacing it all, the panel likely will fall to the same criteria.
Is there some part of it that also upgrades the amount of power coming into the house?
well, yes and no...
if the current panel is lets say 60 amps, it needs to be upgraded to AT least 100amps... the new code.
so, the wire, the meter, the cam all need to be big enough to handle the thicker wire. the rules are the number of cubic inches inside the box need to be appropriate for the gauge of the wire.
the riser might need to be upgraded too since the "pipe might be too tight". so let's say 150 amp panel is just 1 1/2", but a 200 amp panel needs a thicker wire, so the riser (pipe) has to be 2" thick so the wire does not heat up inside the pipe.
the bigger the amps coming inside the house, the larger the equipment outside to provide enough space for ventilation/workability.
make sense?
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Is there some part of it that also upgrades the amount of power coming into the house?
The service is built around the amperage desired. Typically 125 or 200 amps. There are smaller and larger but those are the industry standard. More amperage requires bigger wire, and bigger wire requires bigger conduit, which is why it is all usually replaced. Plus it's usually easier to just replace it all than to retrofit.
- Flipper/Rehabber · San Francisco · Member since 2014 · 124 posts · 49 votes11y
Hey Loren,
When evaluating an older home, what's some common indicators or signs that significant expenses are looming? Would you look at the breaker? What do you look for there? What are the big red flags throughout the rest of the home that might mean repair/updates are going to be required?
- 11yLinda WeygantPro MemberInvestor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Thanks for putting this topic up.
When I get older properties, I like to change out all of the switches and outlets for the newer types with a wide rocker panel switches and flat, square outlets.
Do I need to get an inspector to look at this type of work afterwords (and also get a permit?) I'm not moving anything, just switching stuff out for cosmetically nicer styles.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Christopher Morin:
Hey Loren,
When evaluating an older home, what's some common indicators or signs that significant expenses are looming? Would you look at the breaker? What do you look for there? What are the big red flags throughout the rest of the home that might mean repair/updates are going to be required?
What is your definition on "older"? Every 20 years or so there were significant changes and/or upgrades to infrastructure and branch circuit wiring. Give me a time frame cause I could write a book on the last 100 years of electricity!
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:
Thanks for putting this topic up.
When I get older properties, I like to change out all of the switches and outlets for the newer types with a wide rocker panel switches and flat, square outlets.
Do I need to get an inspector to look at this type of work afterwords (and also get a permit?) I'm not moving anything, just switching stuff out for cosmetically nicer styles.
This will vary depending on the "authority having jurisdiction". Where I live, officially, the answer is yes it needs to be inspected. That said, there is definitely a gray area. My advise would be call whoever would perform said inspection (authority having jurisdiction's electrical inspector) and ask if they would require it.
- Flipper/Rehabber · San Francisco · Member since 2014 · 124 posts · 49 votes11y
@Loren let's say 70's 80's built homes, and 60s if you find leftover time to post as well! Thanks in advance, I'm pretty clueless about electrical systems so this helps.
- 11yDana WhickerPro MemberInvestor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
Thank you so much for this thread.
I recently purchased a house in Jacksonville, FL that the local electrical company has an inspection hold on. House has been vacant for about a month. I have no idea when service was disconnected. They will not turn on the service in my name until I get an inspection from the city. The house has some obvious handyman self wired external fixtures and electric was run to the carport that is just wire stapled to framing. House was built in 1982.
Do you think I just need to remove the handyman stuff or has code potentially changed enough since '82 that I may have a major rewire? Or is it likely that it's something in between? Let me know if you need more information.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @George P.:
loren, how much do electricians charge per hour in michigan? i know it's a hard question, but what's a good ball part for per hr charge when they are working with investors (empty house)?
I have no idea in that area. Check with someone in that market I would say.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Christopher Morin:
@Loren let's say 70's 80's built homes, and 60s if you find leftover time to post as well! Thanks in advance, I'm pretty clueless about electrical systems so this helps.
The 80s are pretty close to modern wiring. The vast majority is grounded and that's what really separates anything before the 80s from after. In the 80s, there was wiring that was all aluminum and not copper. Aluminum is common for the service feeders, but not general branch circuit wiring for lights and outlets... unless it's the 80s. Copper was still predominant, but there's a lot of aluminum wired houses out there. It's really not even much worse. Although the aluminum wiring can't handle as much power as the copper wiring, this isn't really an issue as long as the appropriate size breakers are used, which if it's the original system, it would be.
The 70s and 60s are pretty similar. It was the time after knob and tube wiring, but before a well grounded system. Most wiring of this era looks similar to modern wiring, but the wire sheathing is normally thicker, there is only 2 wires inside, and no ground wire. There's no denying that a grounded system is safer than anything else, but as long as you don't start plugging too many things in or overpowering the circuits, it would be fine. It's worked for 30-40 years, it will continue to. The biggest red flag from this area is a brand of electrical panels. If you see Zinsco on the panel anywhere, it should be replaced. The breakers are notorious for not tripping when they should, heating up, and literally burning houses down. The wiring attached to it is probably fine so far as ungrounded systems go, but the Zinsco panel is a fire hazard plain and simple.
- Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes11y
Originally posted by @Dana Whicker:
Thank you so much for this thread.
I recently purchased a house in Jacksonville, FL that the local electrical company has an inspection hold on. House has been vacant for about a month. I have no idea when service was disconnected. They will not turn on the service in my name until I get an inspection from the city. The house has some obvious handyman self wired external fixtures and electric was run to the carport that is just wire stapled to framing. House was built in 1982.
Do you think I just need to remove the handyman stuff or has code potentially changed enough since '82 that I may have a major rewire? Or is it likely that it's something in between? Let me know if you need more information.
If it was done properly, and based on your description it may have been, then there shouldn't be an issue. Things to consider is if the wiring used is "UF", this signifies wire that is capable of being direct buried, or in some locations mounted to a house like what you're describing. My local authority having jurisdiction wouldn't allow it, but yours may. Is the wiring gray? This would be an indicator of the possible correct wire type. If it's romex, or the same wiring in the walls, then it likely needs to be taken off. There are many fixtures rated for outdoor use, so that may not come in to play. If you can see any of the individual wires (black, white, possibly green or bare) anywhere, then it is a red flag. The wiring must be properly protected by means rated for outdoor use. Basically... if it looks half-assed, it probably is and should be removed if there's any sort of inspection.
- Real Estate Investor · Orting, WA · Member since 2015 · 32 posts · 9 votes11y
Originally posted by @Loren Thomas:
Originally posted by @Robert Cummings:
Hello Loren
Here's a question: I did not check the outside rear electrical boxes when i purchased my duplex in Orting. ....
Do you mean outlets on the rear of the duplex, or the main electrical panels? Assuming you mean outlets, I'd get a plug tester ($10) and plug it in. Which of the three lights light up will tell you want the problem is.
Thanks Loren, I'll do that.
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