Ask me your electrical questions!
Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes
I've been an electrician in Washington (the real one..) for 10 years, residential, commercial, and industrial. I've learned a ton from BP so this is me trying to give back with knowledge of something I know very well. Hit me up anytime.. even if you're reading this a year from now..
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
it means everything from the riser, the rain head, the cam, the meter, the wire from the meter to the pane..
look at this pic... it's from the "weatherproof fittings" to the "Service wire holder".
That's precisely what I mean. Thanks!
Do you know if these are things that can be accomplished while working a full-time job, or am I going to need to just set aside some funds to live on (or get some passive income going) before I pursue this sort of training?
The "training" is your job. 40hrs/wk is where the 4000 and 8000 figures come from. so it would be your full time job.. pay increases depending on hours. Why do you want to be am electrician?
It's a multi-faceted reason. For one thing, my grandfather was an electrician, and he taught me some pretty fascinating things. I always thought that what he did and what he knew was pretty cool. I ended up working on our school's electric vehicle because of his influence.
I started to explain the rest, but it got a bit lengthy, and I was concerned about appearing like I was hijacking your thread. For now, I'll just sum it up as I'm exploring all of my options as in depth as possible. Besides, it seems to me like a pretty essential career given our reliance on technology.
@Loren Thomas I have a puzzle that I hope you can solve for me.
In a house we are working on, multiple circuits suddenly lose power simultaneously for a short time - 10 seconds to 10 minutes. The breakers do not trip, and nothing we do will restore the power - it just comes back on when it wants to. At least 5 different circuits are affected. 3 circuits power lights only, the other two power receptacles. When this happens, some of the lights are on (that's how we notice) and some off. Nothing bigger than a small radio is running on the receptacles.
We had a compressor running on a different circuit, but this never happened when it was running. Nothing we are doing seems to make it happen. Sometimes it happens several times in an hour, sometimes only 2 or 3 times in a day.
What could possibly be causing this?
@Loren Thomas I have a puzzle that I hope you can solve for me.
In a house we are working on, multiple circuits suddenly lose power simultaneously for a short time - 10 seconds to 10 minutes. The breakers do not trip, and nothing we do will restore the power - it just comes back on when it wants to. At least 5 different circuits are affected. 3 circuits power lights only, the other two power receptacles. When this happens, some of the lights are on (that's how we notice) and some off. Nothing bigger than a small radio is running on the receptacles.
We had a compressor running on a different circuit, but this never happened when it was running. Nothing we are doing seems to make it happen. Sometimes it happens several times in an hour, sometimes only 2 or 3 times in a day.
What could possibly be causing this?
First off, kudos on using electrical terms properly. That's an odd problem. I've seen something similar before, it turned out that a few of the neutrals in the electrical panel weren't tightened down well enough on the ground bar and walking around in the house literally vibrated the wires enough to separate the connection. I would start there, open up the electrical panel and make sure every single wire is tightened down where it's supposed to be. This includes on all the breakers, and all the neutral and ground wires on the ground bar(s). If these circuits are on a sub-panel then there is more to know, but I'm going to assume this is not the case. The best way it to just give each wire a solid tug and wiggle and see if it comes loose. If the panel is newer, there will be a main breaker that shuts the panel down. The feeders to the panel will still be live, but at least the breakers will be de-energized. You should also make sure that the main wires feeding the panel are snug, including the ground and neutral. This has a degree of danger though as the wires will be live unless you pull the meter outside.
If that doesn't solve anything, it could be a loose connection pretty much anywhere in the electrical system. Any receptacle, switch, light fixture, or junction box. But before you conclude this as the problem, call your utility, I once owned a house that did this sort of thing and it was actually the utility's transformer going bad. They hooked up some sort of monitoring device to the electrical system of the house and left it there for a week. They concluded it was their transformer and replaced it immediately, like same day, because it was leaking fluid into the soil.
So to conclude, 1) Make sure there are no loose wires in the panel. 2) Make sure the utility comapany isn't at fault. 3) Start checking in random places of the troublesome circuits and look for loose wiring.
Thank you, @Loren Thomas! I'll let you know if/when we identify the problem.
Thank you, @Loren Thomas! I'll let you know if/when we identify the problem.
I just reread it's a lot of circuits, sounds to me like you're losing a phase and literally half your house shuts down. You don't notice your range might be getting half power... water heater, dryer... anything 240 volts. If any of those are operating during these times they are being damaged.
Okay, now you're talking above my head. What does it mean to "lose a phase"? Is that something on my end or the utility company's?
The water heater is the only 240 circuit that is on right now since the house is being rehabbed. I don't know if it is running when this happens, but it is still heating the water just fine.
Your electrical panel has 2 phases, lose one, and literally half the panel stops functioning. How old is your electrical system? If it's newer than I would point at the utility.
Here is my panel. The problem circuits are marked with blue painter's tape.
Look like an older Square D QO panel? As far as old panels go, it doesn't get much better.
That said, I can't real the main breaker size well, looks like 150A, if it is, then you might be overloading the panel with all those tandem breakers. If its been like it is there for years and only recently has been issues then I wouldn't worry about that.
Looks to me like you're losing a phase, notice how its always the right side of the breaker. The left side of the tandem breakers is one phase, the right is another. Your main breaker could be going bad, but its difficult to troubleshoot. If I were you, I'd call the utility. At the very least, they'll eliminate some possibilities. They won't check outlets and that sort, but they should pull the panel cover off and test the feeders coming in to the main breaker.
For what it's worth, there a few minor code violations I see, but nothing unsafe so I'm not going to bother listing them unless you want me to.
Thank you, @Loren Thomas. Yes, it's a SquareD box. It is 150A, and seemed a bit overloaded to me as well, but it's been that way since it was installed in 1975. We'll give the electric dept. a call next week and see what they have to say.
Just curious, has anyone changed the meter recently? They had guys changing the meters around here that went to a two week class, and they had no clue.
Pretty easy to lose a leg in an old meter socket that has been disturbed.
So, it turns out that the problem was a loose connection on the main line at the meter. It was arcing and generally not behaving properly. ;-) The connector at the meter had to be replaced.
Would you happen to know any online retailers where i could purchase Led light fixtures for the interior of homes at discount prices. I can buy in bulk if the price is right. Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Versi-Lite-Indoor-Outdoor-Bronze-LED-Mini-Flush-Mount-FMML-7-840-WL-DDBT-M6/204759053?N=5yc1vZc7r5Z12l0Z1z115g2
Would you happen to know any online retailers where i could purchase Led light fixtures for the interior of homes at discount prices. I can buy in bulk if the price is right. Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Versi...
same here...
Bargain Outlet had them @ $7.99 a piece several months ago & I bought about 50 of them but after my recent rehabs & retrofitting our own 35 recessed lights I only have 4 left. The company selling them decided to market them on the cheap as a promotion but now they are back to $17 each (online). However, one currently stocked by Lowes ($29) with a quick clip bracket/attachment to retrofit into an existing electrical box saves a lot of aggravation if you don't have exiting cans in a ceiling.
Would you happen to know any online retailers where i could purchase Led light fixtures for the interior of homes at discount prices. I can buy in bulk if the price is right. Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Versi-Lite-Indoor-Outdoor-Bronze-LED-Mini-Flush-Mount-FMML-7-840-WL-DDBT-M6/204759053?N=5yc1vZc7r5Z12l0Z1z115g2
Sorry I don't have much input here, I always bought from local electrical distributors. By bulk, do you mean hundreds? If so, you can call up just about any electrical distributor and they will have the ability to work with you on pricing. If you're talking 30, that's really not that much to them.
I actually haven't seen those lights yet. I'm trying to think if I could use them anywhere...
@Loren Thomasis Federal NoArk and Federal Pacific the same thing?
Also, how do you know if you need to upgrade service. My panel says 125amp on it. It currently does not have central AC. Stove and heat is gas. Its about 1000 sq ft so a 3 ton or smaller will easily work.
Yes, always get rid of Federal Pacific.
Look like an older Square D QO panel? As far as old panels go, it doesn't get much better.
That said, I can't real the main breaker size well, looks like 150A, if it is, then you might be overloading the panel with all those tandem breakers. If its been like it is there for years and only recently has been issues then I wouldn't worry about that.
Looks to me like you're losing a phase, notice how its always the right side of the breaker. The left side of the tandem breakers is one phase, the right is another. Your main breaker could be going bad, but its difficult to troubleshoot. If I were you, I'd call the utility. At the very least, they'll eliminate some possibilities. They won't check outlets and that sort, but they should pull the panel cover off and test the feeders coming in to the main breaker.
For what it's worth, there a few minor code violations I see, but nothing unsafe so I'm not going to bother listing them unless you want me to.
I have some issues with this post.
In a previous post in this thread, you mention to someone to "make space in their panel by using peanut breakers" But then here, you mention they might be overloading the panel with all the tandems. So which is it? On one hand, USE peanut (never heard them called this yet. I like hearing what people across the country call different materials. For example I call tandem breakers Piggybacks) But on the other hand her panel looks overloaded. Without a load calculation, one can't truly know.
At the time of me replying to this, the issue had been found out, but yes you are correct, one phase is loose. Could be at the main breaker, the meter, or the weatherhead. Dangerous situation... I've replaced main panels that were arcing at the lug and it was just no good. The whole area around the lug turned brown and black.
Your statement is incorrect. "notice how its always the right side of the breaker. The left side of the tandem breakers is one phase, the right is another." This isn't true. Tandems don't split any phase. They are on the same phase and only provide a new breaker on the same part of the buss.
What code violations do you see? I'm curious.
please delete. I hit the reply button twice.
Look like an older Square D QO panel? As far as old panels go, it doesn't get much better.
That said, I can't real the main breaker size well, looks like 150A, if it is, then you might be overloading the panel with all those tandem breakers. If its been like it is there for years and only recently has been issues then I wouldn't worry about that.
Looks to me like you're losing a phase, notice how its always the right side of the breaker. The left side of the tandem breakers is one phase, the right is another. Your main breaker could be going bad, but its difficult to troubleshoot. If I were you, I'd call the utility. At the very least, they'll eliminate some possibilities. They won't check outlets and that sort, but they should pull the panel cover off and test the feeders coming in to the main breaker.
For what it's worth, there a few minor code violations I see, but nothing unsafe so I'm not going to bother listing them unless you want me to.
I have some issues with this post.
In a previous post in this thread, you mention to someone to "make space in their panel by using peanut breakers" But then here, you mention they might be overloading the panel with all the tandems. So which is it? *********It depends, how many amps is the panel? Are the appliances gas or electric? How big of a house or building? What are the current metered loads?******* On one hand, USE peanut (never heard them called this yet. I like hearing what people across the country call different materials. For example I call tandem breakers Piggybacks) But on the other hand her panel looks overloaded. Without a load calculation, one can't truly know.
At the time of me replying to this, the issue had been found out, but yes you are correct, one phase is loose. Could be at the main breaker, the meter, or the weatherhead. Dangerous situation... I've replaced main panels that were arcing at the lug and it was just no good. The whole area around the lug turned brown and black.
Your statement is incorrect. "notice how its always the right side of the breaker. The left side of the tandem breakers is one phase, the right is another." This isn't true. Tandems don't split any phase. They are on the same phase and only provide a new breaker on the same part of the buss. *******This is correct information, glad there's always someone to correct misinformation.******
What code violations do you see? I'm curious.***** I see: 1) Multiple grounded conductors under one screw, 2) More than 2 grounding conductors under one screw, 3) Grounded conductors landed together with grounding conductors, 4) No re-phasing, 5) Conductor entering can with no protection (could be ground or bond, looks too small though to me and seems to be wrapped around other wires, probably needs to be removed and a KO seal installed, 6) I don't see any wires large enough for ground rods, 7) I don't see and wires large enough for the plumbing bond, 8) I suspected the cover probably doesn't have a breaker black in it, 9) Some of the sheething enters the can too far for my liking but dunno what the code says off hand. ******
There's always going to be someone out there to correct you. That's the beauty (or ugly nature, however you want to look at it) of the internet and forums such as this.
I think the code says 1/2-3/4"of jacket inside of a box. I assume that means for panels as well.
i definitely don't see anything for the water ground or ground rod.
what is "re-phasing"
I certainly would stay away from giving electrical advice like this. While I'm sure your intention is to help someone, it could be dangerous and could lead back to you if something goes wrong. Just as people say "I'm not a lawyer, accountant, or doctor, and this is not legal, tax, or health advice" I feel the same way about electrical. I understand your intentions, and I am the same way, but sometimes its better to not give advice.
The 240v circuits are using the white wire as a load carrying conductor, so it should be phased as such, black or red in this case.
I guess I'm a live life on the edge kind of guy...
Loren,
Ten lights when out due to a short. Two electricians spent 4 hours trying to figure out the source. The lights worked for a bit but they were unable to pin point the exact cause. After they left all ten lights went out again and a ceiling fan as well. The breaker keeps tripping. We replaced the Federal Pacific circuit breaker several months ago. To fix the problem the electrician said it will need to be rewired and cost about $2,000.
We appreciate your helpful suggestions thank you.
Greg