Odd behavior from electrician?

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes

I met with an electrician about upgrading and updating all the electrical at my house. He sent me the quote the next day and I agreed. That evening he turned up at my house to collect $500 cash to buy materials. I said I wouldn't be handing over $500 until he physically turned up with the materials to start the job. He became quite angry and said he wouldn't be spending his own money to buy materials. I said no problem, I would meet him at the supply store and pay for all the materials. He left in a vexed state. Spoke to him the next day and he said he's not doing the job because I don't trust him. He's correct, I don't trust any contractor in South Florida.

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Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nat C.:

Originally posted by @Doug N.:

@K. marie P. often says what I am sometimes too reticent to say... I always struggle with being too frank, thinking I should somehow be 'nicer' to the reality show contestants that often post here.

But then I wonder why they post at all, the completely hilarious ones... really, are they expecting anything more than sympathetic replies, or are they truly seeking a solution to what are clearly systemic errors in thinking and judgement? The answer is in their responses (or lack of) to the many helpful and concerned follow-up posts.

I am looking forward to that wonderful and historic day that @Nat C.posts about a moderately successful subcontractor that produces quality work at a fair price.

I wonder of there is a keyword alert for that scenario.

I appreciate there are many people that use Bigger Pockets for boasting, enhancing their ego and networking. I really have no need for this. Why on Earth would I write a post about a "moderately successful subcontractor that produces quality work at a fair price". Seriously, WTF? That kind of conversation starter would be as exciting as cabbage.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, I solely use BP for advice from the myriad of wise people who have had much more experience than me. I'm only in my 20s and have less than 10 years under my belt.

In Miami I have an AMAZING contractor and I know I will never in this life time find anyone as good. He is highly experienced, his work is meticulous, he's 100% reliable and and he is honest to a fault. Unfortunately he's only one person and can only do so much. Also he's not a licensed electrician so I cannot put him on this job.

I also had a fantastic all rounder contractor in Las Vegas for 4 years who looked after all my properties. I offered to sponsor him to come to Miami when I sold my properties there but unfortunately he has family in Vegas and doesn't want to move.

I could start writing posts about how I become a millionaire through real estate in my mid 20s but ego and boasting is NOT my style. I am a quiet, hardworking person who likes to stay in the background, drives a modest car and lives a modest lifestyle.

@nat chan From reading your posts, it does seem that you have an inordinate amount of difficulties with your projects and I think that's what some people are responding to (with varying degrees of kindness). I don't think it's fair nor helpful to just blame Miami, after all: you've written about your troubles in many other locations and I'm sure Miami has many good contractors.

It is always useful to periodically 'self-exam' one's business. I'm not sure where you're going wrong with finding contractors but you clearly are. Some of it may be due to your relative inexperience with construction matters, some may be due to your budget and choice criteria but no matter what the cause, you should re-think your methods (if for no other reason: your own sanity!).

If your Miami contractor friend is as awesome as you say, why do you not get referrals from him? Great contractors always know and use great subs. Birds of a feather always flock together.

Finally, criticism from peers can sting but try not to take it personally. Rather use it to learn and grow. I, for one, would not find it boring were you to write of a good contractor experience. I would be glad for you. Good luck!

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Tony Gunter
Investor · Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 727 posts · 500 votes
10y
Why limit the comment to south Florida? You did the right thing.
4 Reply
J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
10y
Did you ask him if he trusts you? :-)
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3 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
From what I read on the forums, there are some trustworthy contractors across the U.S. I can tell you that South Florida/Miami is a whole other ball game. It seems to be a game of who can pull the most number of scams. I've been scammed time and time again, from a few hundred dollars to tens of thousands. I am lucky I have 1 completely trustworthy contractor but he's recently moved here from Virginia. I feel if I was running a house flipping business in a town in Virginia, I wouldn't have been scammed to the same extent.
1 Reply
Aaron McGinnis
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
10y
Asking a customer for a deposit is not a red flag.
Showing up at their house after hours is.
If there wasn't a contract, then it should have been a no-go from the get-go.
4 Reply
Aaron K.
Fishkill, NY · Member since 2013 · 88 posts · 36 votes
10y
Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If there's no signed contract, I don't pay anything until the job is done. If they provide a contract specifying deposits, amounts due upon completion, etc., then I review CAREFULLY and proceed. Definitely no money up-front for materials with no signed contract, and I certainly won't do business with someone who shows up unannounced to collect a deposit that we didn't discuss previously.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes
10y
@Nat C. It's not a good sign that he can't cover an amount that small for materials. Your instincts were right: Find yourself a better electrician!
0 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
You did the right thing....he must be related to your tile guy!!!!
4 Reply
Jennifer Jesse
Midlothian, VA · Member since 2014 · 65 posts · 15 votes
10y
get it Virginia :)
0 Reply
Meghan Helbick
Rental Property Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 13 votes
10y
Hey @Nat C. good for you! We just updated the electric in our new house, and they were great! It's OR electric & Design, based out of Boca. Not sure if they service Miami, but worth a shot! 561-477-8656
0 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Pat L.:

You did the right thing....he must be related to your tile guy!!!!
LOL Pat! It is almost impossible to find any contractor not related to this family.
0 Reply
Doug N.
Lynnwood, WA · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 157 votes
10y
@Nat C. I have to say there seems to be a common thread in your Laws of Attraction™ to contractors and handypersons.
As I recall from your last thread (The World's Most Awesome Tiling Job, Compleat With Pictures), you asked for advice on pretty much the same thing. Do you see any parallels here?
Are you thinking this electrician will work out just fine, except for the materials payment part??
Please do let us know what happens...
1 Reply
Keith Baird
Investor · Brookline, MA · Member since 2012 · 20 posts · 4 votes
10y
@Nat C. I love that you trusted your instincts, I had a similar experience with an HVAC contractor last Spring. If a contractor absolutely demands money up front I like to make sure the work is clearly agreed to in a contract, I have the contractor's license, address etc. and I will never pay more than 1/3 of the the total cost. I have a terrific electrician that I trust, but I would not be surprised by anyone trying to eventually skate with a deposit if we working together long enough. Sad to say but better to be safe than sorry. On a somewhat related note, isn't it funny how indifferent contractors treat you when there is a lot of work to be had? How quickly some of them forget the recession we just emerged from....
0 Reply
Kevin Booker
Flipper/Rehabber · Richmond, VA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 10 votes
10y
I'm an electrician by trade and you've done the correct thing if I ask for funds for materials and you agree to meet at the supply house what's the problem
I'd say he was going to take your 500 and get most of the materials used, from his collection of previous jobs, from another job site etc. for of course nothing
3 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Doug N.:

@Nat C. I have to say there seems to be a common thread in your Laws of Attraction™ to contractors and handypersons.
As I recall from your last thread (The World's Most Awesome Tiling Job, Compleat With Pictures), you asked for advice on pretty much the same thing. Do you see any parallels here?
Are you thinking this electrician will work out just fine, except for the materials payment part??
Please do let us know what happens...
This isn't me, this is Miami. The biggest scam city in America. The city itself was built with drug money.
What makes me sad is constantly hearing other peoples stories of how they were conned. The most common one is people who pay to rent an apartment and the 'property manager/owner' disappears after receiving a $5000 deposit.
If I could do it all over again, I'm not sure I would have chosen Miami.
0 Reply
George P.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Pat L.:

You did the right thing....he must be related to your tile guy!!!!
or her ac guy.
2 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Kevin Booker:

I'm an electrician by trade and you've done the correct thing if I ask for funds for materials and you agree to meet at the supply house what's the problem
I'd say he was going to take your 500 and get most of the materials used, from his collection of previous jobs, from another job site etc. for of course nothing
I think you're spot on. I thought he was just going to take the $500 and run but I think your theory sounds more legit.
0 Reply
Scott Weaner
Rental Property Investor · Yardley, PA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 561 votes
10y
New book on Amazon!
How NOT to Choose a Contractor
by @Nat C.
2 Reply
Nat C.
OP
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:

New book on Amazon!
How NOT to Choose a Contractor
by @Nat C.
LOL yep I could write a book on it!
0 Reply
James Pearson
Sherman, TX · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 14 votes
10y
FYI, on the contractor side, I generally wont do less than 100% materials plus 20% of the labor upfront. I also make a profit on the materials, so you cant just write a check to the hardware store. I wont do business any other way. Generally, my business is cabinetry, so once I'm done with the building of cabinets, I collect another 50% of the labor before I do the install. This ensures me that I get paid for my time. Of course, contracts are a must and everything is in writing. Im starting to get away from showing the materials cost to customers, because most of them think the labor is too high, until they get a quote from another cabinet shop, then I get a call with a check for what I ask for. I have been burned by allowing customers to purchase their own materials from their own vendor. Never again. If I touch the materials other than on the jobsite, I make a profit from them and I should.
It does sound like you got in with a bad contractor in this situation.
2 Reply
Steve Shewmake
Realtor · Monett, MO · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 1 vote
10y
It sounds like your contractor has financial problems when I do a job I don't take money up front ,unless it is a larger contract. When I do have to have a material deposit it is after materials are delivered the draw schedule is clearly stated in the contract. When using a contractor for the first time you should always be careful about disbursing funds.
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
@Nat C. it kind of goes with the territory of doing remodel rehabs on the cheap or as cheap as you can get them done.
When we build new contruction no ONE gets a dime up front for anything... we get an invoice on the 1st for the preceeding months work.. we pay on the 10th.. and we get lien release with payment. but we use the same subs over and over again.. and the have their own credit so they don't need money up front.. but its not johnny I can do it as cheap as possible lunch buck guys either these are successful subs making in many cases a very nice living to some of our larger subs.. like our dry wall contractor has 600 employees and they are the cheapest in the state...
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2 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:
New book on Amazon!
How NOT to Choose a Contractor
by @Nat C.
LOL yep I could write a book on it!
Trust me you're not alone we could all write books on the rip offs & foolish naive trust we had in people over the years. But you are becoming very astute in your character assessments & that's admirable & will be invaluable.
All the best you deserve it.
0 Reply
Brian Ragsdale
Flipper/Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 45 posts · 24 votes
10y
You handled it so well....To me, trust is earned over time. I don't know South Florida but have met contractors like this in New England and Midwest.
When I worked with seriously cruel and abusive parents (I am also a psychologist), the first thing I took off the table was TRUST. I shared with them my rationale; the reason why trust would not be part of the relationship is that they have already shown that they don't know how to handle it. Once manipulation was off the table we could work on solving their problems.
Apparently, given my associations, I have a crazy brain, and this is my crazy connection to this story.
1 Reply
Rochelle Wilkinson
Property Manager · Phoenix, MD · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 60 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

I met with an electrician about upgrading and updating all the electrical at my house.
He sent me the quote the next day and I agreed.
That evening he turned up at my house to collect $500 cash to buy materials.
I said I wouldn't be handing over $500 until he physically turned up with the materials to start the job. He became quite angry and said he wouldn't be spending his own money to buy materials. I said no problem, I would meet him at the supply store and pay for all the materials. He left in a vexed state. Spoke to him the next day and he said he's not doing the job because I don't trust him.
He's correct, I don't trust any contractor in South Florida.
I once had a guy who was scheduled to start a job the next week call me at 11 pm on a Saturday night to ask if he could get a front of $300 and in return I could hold his tools till he started the job.. ummm no and dont bother showing up on Monday either..
1 Reply
Jon HuberPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 713 votes
10y
@Nat C. You did the right thing! I am going through something very similar here in Boca Raton. I never had issues quite like this in NJ or California.
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